1957 Buick Century split bench seat on ebay... this is a shame.

[Guest]

I took a look at this item and the description above it made me sick. This guy's boss is turning a 40,000 mile Model 66R into a street rod. I suppose some people can get some really nice parts, but the fact that some moron is pillaging what looks to be a really nice car turns my stomach. Keep your eyes open for some really good parts as this car is raped. Some people just don't know the value of anything I guess.

1957 Buick Century Split Bench

[rocketraider]

More to the point, some people just don't care about intrinsic value or preservation.

[Guest]

There oought to be a LAW.....!

Pete Phillips, BCA #7338

[Guest Skyking]

Why would someone want to rod out a car like that? You could probably get in and drive cross country without any problems...........Some vehicles just get into the wrong hands!

[Guest]

This goes to show that not all street rods are built from "wrecked and rusted" cars. This idiot has destroyed a beautiful, irreplacable car. The original cars are getting fewer and far between, especially in this condition. I would have really loved to have bought the car before this guy got a hold of it.

Woody

[michel88]

Sorry, had trouble with posting, thought I was logged in. That is my "anonymous" posting, but I don't want to be anonymous about this! We all have to stand up and get recognized to bring the issue to head on the canibalizing of original automobiles.

Woody Michel

[Guest]

Gee, thanks for allowing us to rod and custom the rusty junk you deem too far gone to restore.

You guys with your "Resto only" mind set.

I don't even know where to begin. So I'm not going to.

-Brad

[Guest Skyking]

Brad, first off why aren't you registered?? Second, most of us think the car is fine the way it is. Why destroy a car that has most modern equippent? Reliable V8, hydraulic brakes, probably automatic, comfort, (including the front seat) and lot's of style......Maybe most of us thinks it's crazy.....

[Guest trevor ward]

I have just got back from a car show today, and a friend of mine is thoroughly enjoying owning and driving (fine weather if poss.!!) a '57 which she has had for about a year, and it is a museum find and even now has only 15,000 miles on it, and although her car is rust free e.t.c. it looks to be in "poorer" shape than the car that this brain dead nimrod is tearing apart!!!!!! BRING BACK HANGING

<span style="font-weight: bold">'64 le sabre, enjoying her at last......</span>

TREVOR.........................

[Guest]

Hey, I agree with Brad. Why dont you guys stop complaining about what the guys doing and purchase some of the parts to restore some other car???? Your overlooking the opportunity here. You guys drool over original parts while the rest of us like to Modernize. Hey at least he didnt crush the damn thing like in California!!!

Brian

53 Buick SOON TO BE A HOTROD!!!

[Guest]

Forgot my password, got a temp password, but that's going to run out before I get around to writing it down so I can register. Then I'll have to do it again.

Hydraulic brakes. yes. Self adjusting? no. Dual reservoir master cylinder? no. Power? Maybe.

Automatic trans? yes. 3 speeds? no. Overdrive? no. High rear end gears so the rpm is uncomfortable? yes.

FM radio? Probably not.

A/C? Probably not.

Seat belts? no.

Dry rotted rubber everywhere? yes. Seals in the shocks, trans, brake cylinders on their way south? yes.

Electric windshield wipers? Propably not. Variable speed wipers? no

Fuel economy? nope.

Cup holders, arm rests and other lesser comforts? no.

There are a lot of things these cars lacked. Sure, they're great, and it's nice to see some nice original ones out there, but original wasn't perfection. And frankly, it's not like these cars are super rare. They made hundreds of thousands of them, and there are still a ton of them out there. It's not one of the original 500 Dodge Daytona Chargers. Or one of the 3 Super Birds with power windows. Or one of the 50 aluminum front end Super Stock race cars. Or one of the couple hundred '53 Corvettes. It's an old Buick, and there are tens of thousands out there. And yes, more low mileage, originals than you can shake a stick at or even count. They're out there.

You know what I like least about restos, and the guys who love them? When a bunch of people stand around a nicely restored car, and then they all feel it's their place to sit there and start picking apart someone else's efforts and point out that the hose clamps aren't right, and the battery cables aren't right, and the headlights aren't right, and blah blah blah. You'll NEVER hear that at a rod run. Sure, guys will offer their opinions, and maybe not even like the car out loud, but nobody ever sits there and says "it's wrong--we find your effort lacking."

I'm going to kustomize my low-mileage (35K) '54 Special: some body mods, nice interior, paint, more custom body work, 322 and figure out something with the transmission and rear end. You know what's really funny? When it's done, it will be worth a whole lot more money than if it was stock. Don't beleive me? Check the prices of Model A Fords: total resto is worth about $9-12K, at the most. Hot rods are routinely selling for $20-$45K, depending on what's done to them. Why do you suppose that is? What's the going price of a 264/manual trans '54 2dr that's in perfect condition. What's the price of a great custom?

Oh, wait, here's an idea! Why don't we all live and let live, knock off the "punch him in the mouth because he's raping a car and not doing what we think he ought to do with it" mentality, and let's all enjoy our cars however we want, rather than bad mouthing other enthusiasts, their tastes, and their efforts. Mama was right--"If you can't say anything nice..."

-Brad

[Dave@Moon]

This is my favorite subject on the forum. There is a highly accelerated trend toward using mint original and restored cars for hot rod fodder. Ther argument for doing theis is always [color:\\"red\\"] <span style="font-style: italic"> <span style="font-weight: bold"> EXACTLY </span> </span> the same "stuff" that Brad and Brian have spewed here. My response is best stated in an analogy:

If you're propped up in the leather easy chair, you've just finished watching <span style="font-style: italic">Titanic</span> on the DVD while sipping a frozen margarita, and you decide to turn the a/c down to 68 for the night before you go to bed,....<span style="font-style: italic">are you still camping????</span> There are rows of people in any K.O.A. that'll tell you they are!

Maybe you have to be in the Sierra Club to get that one.

If you want to drive a Toyota Sienna, <span style="font-weight: bold"> THEN BUY ONE DAMN IT!</span> Don't waste the surviving pieces of our automotive heritage to play dress-up!

More to come.

[rocketraider]

There's a place for rods, and a place for originality. A 40k unrestored original car in this condition is NOT the place for a rod. Even most hard-core rodders I know will admit that. If it had 100k on it, been painted a couple times but still reasonably straight, and needed drivetrain and interior work anyway then yeah, have your way with it, I could not care less. But don't bugger a car that could be used as a restoration reference. And if you do bugger it, don't make so damn many mods that it can't be returned to as-manufactured condition.

It goes back to "my car, I'll do what I want with it". Plus I know for a fact some rodders will modify a car like this just to [censored] someone off. Some of you seem to be more concerned with the financial return end of it than anything else. Why do the rodded cars bring more than an original? Simple- someone's finally made it and has a wad of cash burning a hole in his pocket, and wants the car he couldn't have when he was a snot-nosed kid. He can't build it himself, so he pays out the butt for someone else to do it. A lot of it is "you need to realise I can afford to have this". Conspicuous consumption, folks- outdoing the Joneses.

And in the quest to have an individualised car, you end up with no individuality at all- Chevy 350/350, components from all the same aftermarket manufacturers, and painted Porsche Guards Red.

Nah- the originals weren't perfect, but they're a damn sight more interesting than a cookie-cutter, billet-drenched red rod.

Now, if you're willing to dare to be different, and use something else besides the aforementioned components, you might get my attention and even a compliment.

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> You know what's really funny? When it's done, it will be worth a whole lot more money than if it was stock. Don't beleive me? Check the prices of Model A Fords: total resto is worth about $9-12K, at the most. Hot rods are routinely selling for $20-$45K, depending on what's done to them. Why do you suppose that is? What's the going price of a 264/manual trans '54 2dr that's in perfect condition. What's the price of a great custom?

</div></div>

Here's another great one for the hot rod crowd. The idea that <span style="font-style: italic">their</span> rod will be worth just as much as Tim Allen's or one of the ZZ Top's rods. Here's the problem:

<span style="font-style: italic">SOME</span> cars are worth more as hot rods, [color:\\"red\\"] but only immediately after they're done! Hot rods, unlike properly restored antiques, are simply no longer old cars. They become a product of the time in which they were made. This has grave consequences for those who see them as some sort of investment or as a valuable piece of property.

The simple fact is that this year's car will be worth a lot less next year, when bigger and better crate engines, billet wheels and led third brake lights are available. If you <span style="font-style: italic">really</span> want to know what you're in for, ask someone <span style="font-style: italic">(and NOT Boyd Coddingham or George Barris, <span style="font-weight: bold">you're not them</span>)</span> how much their 1978 era hot rod is worth. That dingle-balled, sparkle vinyled, TA 6.6 engined, ET bedecked, chrome chain mini-steering wheeled, air-brush muraled, glass-packed albatross is now a parts car (and not a very good one at that).

Brad, your 35K mile '54 is about to do something it hasn't done since JFK was shot (and no it's not going to impress women). It's going to <span style="font-weight: bold">DEPRECIATE!</span>

Enjoy the ride, it's all downhill from here!

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> More to the point, some people just don't care about intrinsic value or preservation </div></div>

Rocketraider, i wonder if you have any idea how right you are! Here's the start of a thread I begain in April on the AACA side that generated 109 responses, most of them <span style="font-style: italic">in favor</span> of hot rodding the following cars. Read the list carefully, it's shocking!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> ...I recently had a chance to get a free copy of Hemmings' Rod & Performance magazine. If you haven't seen it, it is very much in the form of Cars & Parts, with numerous features and a large section of classifieds.

Of course, this magazine is for the modified crowd.

I've heard untold defences of street-rodding antique cars repeated here and elsewhere, as I'm sure you have as well. Eventually it gets down to an argument based on possession and rights.

And invariably you get to the rationalization: the car wasn't worth restoring and/or wasn't being restored. If you're lucky you gat get a street-rodder to cough this one up: "It's not like we're cutting up 400 point cars."

Well listen to these. Every one of these cars was advertised expressly for fodder to the street rod market:

1949 Hudson Super Six Coupe, stick shift, nice older paint and interior upgrade, good running, solid CA car, would make great custom, $12K obo....(the photo of this car looks suspiciously like the hill up to the Hershey mansion, and the car looks good enough to belong there and then some)

NASH-HEALEY: 1953 roadster, yellow/black, 3-spd overdrive, LeMans specs, 6-cyl motor, superb rust-free TX car, older restoration.....

1952 Willys Aerolark 2-dr. 46K miles, original: flathead six, paint, interior, straight, rust-free, rare car, restore or build a cool street rod, $5500....(Photo shows car in need of paint and probably interior, but little else)

MERCURY: 1949 coupe, solid and original, never cut 20 year dry storage, time warp, $9500.....

1937 Ford woody, reportedly the remaining one of 2 prototypes produced in Australia, clear CA title, It is not rusted away but needs restoration,....$15K.....

1969 Dodge Coronet 500, new paint, rebuilt 318, auto, air, power steering, second owner, clean and nice, FL car, $6900...(I put this one in because I used to have one 10 years ago. There are hundreds of cars like this in the magazine, many of them muscle cars. When you see one you have a history with going away it really makes you mad! )

Buick Super 1953 convertible, 99% rust free, excellant restoration or custom project, $5K; 1957 Century convertible, 100% rust free, perfect floors, complete with new windshield, needs restoration, $8500....

1932 Chrysler Imperial Model CH 5-passenger sedan, 135" wheelbase, rust free car, sidemounts, complete interior, no engine or trans, one of a kind street rod, $9900.....

Again, remember, these are cars being advertised in a street rod/performance car magazine. They are specifically being offered for sale to be reworked as customs/rods. Notice how many of them are already restored as antiques!

Think they're in here by mistake? Lets look at the partially completed future street rods being sold. Every one of these is either under way or (judging by the equipment listed) has been completed in last few years:

1950 Chevy rare 2-dr all steel wagon special ordered by the U.S. Forest service, 1938 Hupmobile 4-dr project car (has already been radically chopped), 1931 Hudson 4-dr project car (also already chopped), 1936 Dodge 4-dr sedan, 1937 Dodge business coupe, 1931 Chevy 2-door...., and it goes on.

If you're interested in the wagon it's painted Prowler Purple and ready to go. There still some assembly required on the others.

I could spend hours typing up the more common vehicles being offered up like this, but I hope you're getting the point right about now. We need to do something to shore up the public's appreciation of authentically restored cars.

If you read a large number of the ads in the mag, it seems to leave the impression that stock antiques are undrivable today. Time and again you come accross the word "driver", good driver, daily driver, reliable driver, excellant driver, etc. Many times the implication (as I see it) seems to be that these cars somehow "needed" improvement in order to be useful.

</div></div>

Recent generations remember the X-car and the Volare as representative examples of our automotive heritage and not the aberations that they were. They'll continue to replace those of us realize that there was light and warmth and quality in the past as well as today. Unless they're somehow instructed in appreciation for what they've inherited, they'll continue to dismiss their past in favor of temporal persuits.

Hershey's big AACA show is in 3 weeks. Watch the crowds when you're there. I'll be the guy without grey hair that <span style="font-style: italic">isn't</span> shopping for a Senior Award car to gut and chop.

[Guest]

I think the bottom line here is that everyone is upset that they didnt find this "rare gem" first!! The one thing I like about the resto cars are that they VERY RARELY ever see the road! The only time I remember seeing restored cars driven is for the local car show or a parade. Whats wrong with the other 6 days in the week?? Dont feel comfortable driving the car everyday??? Hot Rods for the most part are driven daily and can at least keep up with traffic. Hot Rodders ENJOY their cars more than ONCE A WEEK. Rain, bring it on. Snow, bring it on. Ive fixed it once i'll fix it again. If you cant enjoy it you shouldnt have it. Brad, the next step for my 53 is a chopped top, Chevy fuel injected motor and overdrive trans. CHOP IT AND DROP IT, Words to live by!!!

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Words to live by!!!

</div></div>

You, or the car? And if the car, for how long?

But then all things are to be measured strictly by our own, immediate pleasure. Right?

[Guest Skyking]

Dave, maybe there's more people out there that think the same way we do.. I don't see any bids on the seat yet....

[Guest]

Yep, my car started depreciating as soon as I bought it. You know why? Stuff kept wearing out, breaking or leaving me stranded by the side of the road! The list was endless. Should have kept it as a nice parade car, right? Sunday afternoon driver? Yeah, that's a whole lot more fun than getting groceries, picking the kids up from school every day, driving to work, etc. Better yet, let me rush out and buy a $40K Turbo Diesel Dually pickup and a $15K enclosed trailer to haul around a $30,000 paper weight.

And that whole thing about value? Who cares? My new Dodge Dakota isn't worth what I paid for it. My last one wasn't either: and that one was great--I did a ton to it: paint, body panels, headers, wheels/tires, lowered, 4-wheel disc brake upgrade, real fast. Parked it for over a year while I put 12 grand of those 35,000 miles on my '54 Buick, rain or shine. In fact, when the truck was finally stolen out of my driveway because it looked so nice (we found the hulk, and only the custom stuff was taken), you could see the dirt outline from where the tires sat on my concrete driveway.

With care and attention, though, an old car will depreciate, but only to a certain point, and then it will hold. But so will your new car, and which is more fund ti drive?

As for the "expiration date" cars, couldn't agree with you more (but let's not forget that '55 Buick Tahitian Red was the first Hot Rod Red). My '54 will have four wheel finned aluminum drums, Trunk-mount A/C with the cool plastic tubes going into the ceiling and exiting through '56 Caddy Limo headliner vents, stock '54 hubcaps on www, a built 322, factory power steering, and upgraded with a Roadmaster radiator and fan shroud. I'm also going to search around for an original tissue dispenser.

Oh, and yeah, by all means lets drive cars with 3.73 gears around town all day. And let's not give a moment's thought to that two row radiater, no fan shroud and 4-blade fan keeping it cool at the stop lights. Can't fix those things--wouldn't be original!

But why do I need to justify myself, let alone what I do to my car, to you guys?

Do I appreciate the unmolested, early iron? Of course, I'm a car guy.

Do I want to own one? Not particularly. Possibly because I don't have fond memories of crusing around in one during my highschool years (I'm 31).

And that spending tirade and fiscal responsability garbage? What was all that about? Why should you care WHAT other people spend their money on? That just sounds like simple sour grapes. I wouldn't spend money on half the show cars I see in car magazines. In fact, I don't particularly care for those mega-buck cars at all, and I think the people are nuts for dropping that kind of money on them. But I'm not going to call them names about it. In fact, other than to a few close friends, I'm not going to talk about it at all. It's not my place.

And it shouldn't be yours.

Again, if you can't think of anything nice to say about someone's car and how they choose to use it, then do us all a favor and pipe down.

That, I believe, is what it really should all boil down to.

-Brad

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Oh, and yeah, by all means lets drive cars with 3.73 gears around town all day. And let's not give a moment's thought to that two row radiater, no fan shroud and 4-blade fan keeping it cool at the stop lights. Can't fix those things--wouldn't be original!

</div></div>

Yup, that's right! We all know that original cars never made it accross the street without extensive modifications in the dark ages of 1954. Hell, before that you bought a car so you'd have something to <span style="font-style: italic">push!</span>

No wonder all those people from back then are so old now!

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> And that whole thing about value? Who cares?</div></div>

[color:\\"blue\\"] You will, son. You will.

[rocketraider]

The 1976 Ninety Eight went to Fall Charlotte and back in the rain and sat on a muddy showfield in between. It cruised at 70+ mph with its Tempmatic cranking to keep the windows clear.

The 69 Toronado was driven from here to Springfield IL in rain.

They get dirty, I wash them. They break, I fix them. I have time, I drive them. Sometimes not even once a week. But when I do, I drive them, and hard. I enjoy every minute of it. And haven't had to modify anything to keep up with modern traffic, except my attitude when some idiot in a Honda or Volvo cuts me off.

Besides, what do you want? A Buick or a bastard? You stick a Chevy drivetrain in it, you sure don't have a Buick anymore. Why not <span style="font-weight: bold">dare to be different</span> and use a Buick drivetrain? 455s and Nailheads are reasonably plentiful and can be tricked out as neat as any Chevy crate engine extant, with a WAY bigger wow factor. You ever seen a Hilborn-injected Nailhead? You want thoroughly modern power? Use a supercharged 3800 SFI for crying out loud. Anything but a boring 350 Chevy crate engine.

But it's your car, do what you want.

[Guest]

"All things are to be measured by their own immediate gratification"? or whatever it was you said.

When it comes to me, spening my money on what I want, then yes, that's exactly the standard.

You want to pay my bills and buy my stuff, fine, then I'll live my life as you see fit and conduct my affairs as you dictate.

Until then, you can stay out of my garage.

-Brad

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> With care and attention, though, an old car will depreciate, but only to a certain point, and then it will hold. But so will your new car, and which is more fund ti drive? </div></div>

I'm going to assume for the moment you are mistakenly referring to what you are making as "an old car." If so, you couldn't be more wrong.

Old hot rods are the dying dreams of dying owners. Unless by some chance you happen to develope a national reputation as a professional builder of kustoms of high integrity and quality, all of the reliable points of reference for the quality of the work you did in building the car will pass on with you. Your car will be an old, outdated, outmoded transportation device of questionable pedigree and doubtful utility when you're no longer around to vouch for it's build quality.

That's why the hot rod of a certain age becomes a poor quality parts car later on. Nobody with any brains gets into a car hand made by some old guy named "Doug" and relies on it for their saftey. It gets torn down and (if it's lucky) redone by the new owner. Many eventually wind up as Hyundai trunk lids. Unless you're the next Boyd Coddingham, so will your car.

And if your new car drives the same as your "old car", what possible reasoning can exist that says that the "old" one is <span style="font-style: italic">more fun to drive</span>? Close your eyes in most any hot rod today, you're in a 1995 Lumina that happens to have rear wheel drive and a leaky exhaust. What <span style="font-style: italic">"fun"</span>!

That's where the camping analogy should hit home. Lying under the stars, breathing the night air, listening to the trees and wildlife, etc. <span style="font-weight: bold">IS</span> more fun than the hum of a Marriott Courtyard's air conditioner. Otherwise, what's the point? If you can't enjoy dealing with what you chose to percieve as the shortcomings of the driving experience of your Buick, you're not getting it (and maybe "old cars" aren't your thing!)

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Do I want to own one? Not particularly. Possibly because I don't have fond memories of crusing around in one during my highschool years (I'm 31). </div></div>

Me either (44). But then again I didn't have to be raised in a house surrounded by Tiffany glass to appreciate it either.

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Again, if you can't think of anything nice to say about someone's car and how they choose to use it, then do us all a favor and pipe down.

</div></div>

Ah yes, the last refuge of the die-hard hot rodder. Sometimes also stated as:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> When it comes to me, spening my money on what I want, then yes, that's exactly the standard.

You want to pay my bills and buy my stuff, fine, then I'll live my life as you see fit and conduct my affairs as you dictate.

Until then, you can stay out of my garage.

</div></div>

I find highly amusing how many All-American hot rodders simply cannot tolerate that which make America what it is: the freedom to communicate.

People will constantly be thinking what I've expressly stated here every time your "old car" rides down the street. Few, if any, will directly assult you with their thoughts, but you'll know they're there.

Inspiring antimosity in others is often <span style="font-style: italic">the</span> reason for doing these kinds of things to an otherwise valuable piece of machinery, as Rocketraider has already pointed out. If that's your bag, by all means slash away! You'll pay for it (as outined above) long before you've begun to understand the cost, and well after there's anything left to recover the loss.

[Dave@Moon]

RR

Did you actually try to get a hot rodder to "<span style="font-weight: bold">dare to be different</span>"? At this point it should be obvious to everyone that in [color:\\"green\\"] <span style="font-style: italic">today's</span> hot rod culture absolute conformity is required. Independant thought went out the window with Baby Moons!

Today we're overrun with Tinkertoy hot rods.

What, no Blue Max wires?

What, no sbc?

What, no Petronix?

What do you mean that's not a Holley?

Trying to get into that crowd with a nailhead (or worse, an independant's motor like AMC) would be like trying to join the Manson Family wearing a Nixon Now t-shirt.

[rocketraider]

Brad, let's compare apples to apples. What you're doing comes under the guise of upgrading since almost everything you've mentioned is correct-for-the-era GM. We're talking about guys who gut the drivetrain in favor of a crate engine/Turbo 350, toss the original suspension in favor of a late model clip or aftermarket IFS, chrome and polish and billet everything, toss out the original interior ifo custom made door panels and seats- in other words you wouldn't be able to tell what the car was originally, which is what's happening to the Buick that started this thread.

I don't care what people do with their own car and money. Being an historian (and an opinionated one at that) I do care when a reference item gets altered. Somebody, somewhere, is looking for that information to make their car like THEY want it.

As far as restorer vs rodder mindsets, they're different. A restorer wants things like they were originally made, and if that means commenting on someone's half-hearted effort to duplicate that standard, it's a fact of life. Rodders don't have to worry about that restoration standard as they make their own standards during construction. If you set your car out to be judged by people knowledgeable about the marque, don't [censored] and moan when they point out the car's shortcomings. If you're serious about putting the car back to its original as-built state, you'll swallow it, make the upgrade, and come back next year. If you want to rod the car, it doesn't need to be put on a showfield full of restored-to-original cars. Take it to a cruise night or rod run where it will be appreciated.

And yes, believe it or not, I like rods and customs. I've had altered cars in the past and may have one again. I like original cars- I must, I have 5. I even like old tractors and farm machinery and aircraft. I'm a gearhead.

Ya wanna know a little secret? That 1976 Ninety Eight I have, has big-azz chrome tailpipes sticking out under its bumper.

[Guest]

Hi,when I saw this it made me sick! I beleive if the car was a bit banged up,some floor rot and the only good about it was some sheet metal and interior parts,but not a REALLY nice car in THAT condition to be parted out and have some boring,nuetral interior put in it so it looks like all the other "techno-rods" out there! I have a nice 56 Mercury (soon to get a 57 Caballero someday) wagon that I'm glad I rescued from some jerk who wanted to customize it. And it's my daily driver. People should learn to preserve what's left of American auto's that are still good examples ,but at the same time if it's a vehicle that is going to need alot of resto anyway,then go at it and do what you want.

[Dominic_Martinelli]

If you look carefully, there seems to be a windshield decal to a nationally known antique automibile club in the corner of the windshield on the passenger side. This car WAS preserved and appreciated by those who knew better.

I own a 1957 Century Model 63 (the 4-door sister to the car in discussion) and even with 100k+ miles using the original 4-bbl 364 engine and Dynaflow transmission, I have had NO problems PASSING traffic let alone keeping up with it. Trust me, the performance of a 57 needs not apologize to anybody.

Oh, Century 2-door hardtops aren't that common. Buick built 17,029 that year. After 45 years, exactly how many do you think are left?? Especially in that condition??? "More than you can shake a stick at"??? I am obviously using the wrong kind of stick. It's hard enough to find a 5 year old car in that kind of shape let alone a 45 year old one.

There are some cars out there that are GREAT candidates for modification and rodding. There are cars out there that are GREAT candidates for restoration. This however, was a car that did not deserve either. It should have been PRESERVED. A car is original only once. If preserved in the shape it seems to have been in until recently, this car was worth approximately 20,000. In ten years, it would probably be a better investment than GM stock!

Those of you who think it takes a special kind of person to cut up an original car are only kidding yourselves. Anybody with a cutting torch can destroy a car. It takes a really special person to maintain and preserve a piece of the past for future generations to appreciate.

I have regularly driven my 57 in all kinds of weather and driven it to the supermarket, to work, to the mall, to drop off people, and just for the fun of driving! Believe it or not, I like to have the windows down, I don't want it to have a 6-disk CD changer, it's performance is far MORE than just adequate and parts while sometimes difficult, are never impossible to procure. If you guys don't like a 45 year old car that doesn't have A/C, power lumbar support, parts availability that is as easy as a drive to the local dealer, and seat-belts, FINE. Get one that deserves a second-lease on life. But don't destroy a car that is still on it's first life. Learn to recognize and appreciate good things when you see them and learn how to make the things that aren't so good right now, better.

[Guest]

Hi agsin! I totally agree with you! I am not against hot rodding a vehicle that needs resto anyway. But this guy who is going to chop up this 57' I think is nuts! It shoows he cares nothing about history for our future generations to experience how wonderful and beautiful these never to be made again vehicles,especially from the design period of the 50's,it's really grim! And I'm only 35,but have always loved old cars! Carrie Wilder

[Guest]

I also was wondering what kind of engine did the 57' Cabellero have? Would it be able to pull a 25 foot travel trailer cross country? The trailer is a 47' Sparton Manor,not sure what the weight is,looks like an Airstream and would probably weigh as much. Was going to use the 56' Mercury wagon I have,but there is not much cooling for the tranny,just two air vents facing the rear of the wagon. Thanks for any information!

[Guest]

Dave@Moon,

Thank you for your extremely well thought out and well written posts on this thread! Your responses to Brad--who simply shows more of his automotive ignorance with every new post--have helped me reaffirm why I am a "purist" when it comes to restoring old Buicks or any old car. I agree with everything you said, and everything that "Rocketraider" and Dominic said. Thanks, guys. Yes, there is some room for modified cars in this hobby, but they need to stay away from the fine original cars. When a car is modified or not restored properly, it completely loses all of its appeal and value to me--instantly.

Pete Phillips, BCA #7338

Buick Club of America, Board member

Ector, Texas

[Guest]

I asked the seller a few questions about the car, just for curiosity's sake, and he sent me some pics before it was taken apart. I am not going to say anything AT ALL about what others should or should not do with their cars considering my block restamping fiasco, but this was a VERY NICE ORIGINAL car. It is just sad that it had to be taken apart, because a car is original only once. The seller stated that the frame had already been cut, and it has been gutted. Ouch. If the car was a little rougher to begin with it would not hurt an original-condition car nut like me so bad. If anyone would like to see the pic, let me know, it is (was) a pretty car. Kid 4 Speed Matt.

[Dave@Moon]

Matt,

Check with PeterG on how to post the photos right here on the thread. I think it would help if people had a visual reference to what is being lost to ego and mis-guided avarice.

[Guest]

Dave, I will post it, but I assure you, it will hurt... Bad. Kid 4 Speed Matt.

[Guest Skyking]

Guys, the way I look at this now is to be gratful to own the cars you have. You all probably saved them from being destroyed. I have owned 3 Buicks that I restored myself. The latest is an original 66 Skylark convertible that I bought off a 91 year old lady. What would have become of this car if it got into the wrong hands before I bought it? I don't know. All I know is that all the original parts are still on this car and it serves me very well. I have driven the car 8,000 miles since I restored it. I do very fine without air, cruise, power windows, cup holders, overdrive, etc, etc. What will happen to this car after I'm gone, I don't know that either....that's something none of us can control.........

[rocketraider]

What's sad is that it didn't even get a bid... now it will probably end up in the shop dumpster thanks to an idiot trying to satisfy his own ego . Must be a monstrous one too.

[Dave@Moon]

Pete,

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> .....Your responses to Brad--who simply shows more of his automotive ignorance with every new post--have helped me reaffirm why I am a "purist" when it comes to restoring old Buicks or any old car. </div></div>

I've been doing some thought to this, and I think we've been a little hard on Brad. While I still believe he's wrong in every sense in what he's doing (much like the vaunted '57 owner here), he is very much emblematic of his generation.

Two years a go there were several threads on the AACA side all of which centered on attracting "Young People" to the hobby. They dissappeared a few format changes ago, but basically what I argued is that there are too many people like Brad of his age. I find this to be the gravest threat to the hobby that exists.

People currently in their 30's and late '20s have no memory of a time when the American car industry was anything but a public punching bag and/or an embarassment. I'm sure that it never occurred to Brad that the '54 Buick was anything but an old, unreliable machine that needs to be improved to be of use. Like most of his generation, he sees little to distinguish his '54 Century from an '84 Century. I doubt he can concieve of a time when Buick meant reliability and performance. Most his age cannot.

The fact that that age includes 1954 I'm sure would astound him, if he were able to accept it.

I was alluding to those posts and this problem when I wrote: <span style="font-weight: bold">"If you read a large number of the ads in the mag, it seems to leave the impression that stock antiques are undrivable today. Time and again you come accross the word "driver", good driver, daily driver, reliable driver, excellant driver, etc. Many times the implication (as I see it) seems to be that these cars somehow "needed" improvement in order to be useful."</span> I've met many younger people who were surprised that my '60 needs so little care to keep running. For them, all old cars have the reputation of an old Yugo. They don't have the perspective to appreciate that those kinds of cars were a letdown from the models of the '30s-'60s.

I believe that this is the root of the current wave of hot-rodism. The trend of modifying cars into street rods (I use the terms interchangably) is now so strong that there is no distinction given as regards the condition and value of the raw material sacrificed to make the rod.

We have to do something about this, or all our cars will suffer the fate of the '57 someday.

[Dave@Moon]

Matt, as long as you have this guy's email address, you should send him a link to this thread so that he sees this. There used to be a short-cut link to do this in the old format, but I'm afraid you'll need to do this by cut & paste. Only don't do it if you're expecting to buy anything off of him!