supercharged engine

[harry yarnell]

I have the opportunity to pick up a '98 Riviera supercharged engine.

I've got no plans at the present as this just popped up, but the thought of putting it in a '90 Reatta interests me.

I know some of you guys have done this so I'd like to pick your brains. I'd like to keep the Reatta electrics intact.

The engine is a '98.

I've done engine swaps before (3800 in a Fiero; corvair powertrain in a VW bus) so this looks like an interesting challenge.

Any thoughts?

[D-a-n-i-e-l]

Just did it with a six speed manual. I will be doing a small write up shortly.

[jbeary]

Daniel inspired me to pick up a supercharged 3.8. Bought complete engine and tranny out of a 93 Bonneville for $350 from our local pull a part. I stuck with a first gen series 1 to avoid all the motor mount and driveline issues. Still trying to convince myself that I need this in my 91 when I really want it in my 89. From what I have read, and please correct me if I am wrong here experts, dropping a series 1 into a 91 is the best plug and play option. The drive line is the major issue for the 90 and earlier "E" body cars with the 440T4. If you've done this swap in a Fiero you know this all too well. I really wanted a 94/95 series 1 but didn't think that was the best way to go unless I expected to burn up a tranny every few years. I'm thinking the lower horse powered 93 could help with that as well as torque steer. You can swap any motor into any car given enough time and money, but if you want the touch screen, the series 1 hooked to a built up 440T4 is the best way to go. There's plenty of into out there about beefing up the 440T4, but many people tend to focus on the 4T60e because this was more widely used and is more widely available. I understand you can piggy back ECM's and use a 91 or later ECM to control the shift points for the 4T60e in a 88 or 89 and still keep the original ECM for the diagnostics, but you will need to find a driver side axle to retrofit the newer transmission. Best situation is to find a 4T60-HD from an 1989-1990 Pontiac Grand Prix with the turbocharged engine, spend $2k to beef up that transmission and then you still have the TV cable controlling the shift points.

For everyone who eventually reads this I wanted to post a very good parts list to consider when rebuilding your 4T60e for a supercharged swap. I can't remember if I pulled this from a Bonneville or Fiero swap forum but so far it's the most comprehensive and complete list I can find. I had nothing to do with compiling this list, I only want to pass on the expertise here:

Valves: Purchased from http://www.<wbr>transmissionpartsusa.com

84754-22k Torque converter clutch apply valve kit (standard size) 91-96

84754-23K Anti-stick 1-2 shift valve

84754-25K hi-ratio Reverse & modulated line boost kit

84754-36k 2-3 Shift Valve 94-97

84754-37k 3-2 Downshift valve 91-up

84754-38k 3-4 Shift valve 91-up

84754-39k 4-3 Downshift valve 91-up

Hard Parts: Purchased from http://www.bulkpart.com

A84570B 4th Clutch hub & Shaft (No bearing at clutch hub end/Sleeve race at splined end) 96-99

A84624 Shell, Reverse Reaction, Black Hardened

Clutches: Purchased from http://www.level10.com (I recommend http://www.wittrans.<wbr>com for others, MUCH cheaper)

84119EAS1 (wittrans number) Friction Module Stage 1 95-up (Raybestos Part #RCPS-32)

Steels: Can be purchased from http://www.wittrans.com (<wbr>I got mine from level10 after complaining)

84139EA Steel Module, L94-UP

Kits: Purchased from http://www.<wbr>transmissionpartsusa.com

37936 4t60e Transmission Shift Kit, 1991-1999 (Shift Improver/correction kit, NOT PERFORMANCE)

Rebuild kit: Mine came with level10 Kit, I recommend this for othershttp://www.<wbr>transmissionpartsusa.com Or second FULL kit fromhttp://www.<wbr>northernautoparts.com

37023 Transmission soft Overhaul kit 91-99 (No bonded Pistons, No steels, No fibers) Soft kit, Gaskets, o-rings, sealing rings.

84008EA TranStar Deluxe Rebuild kit (includes Pistons, steels, fibers, front band, and filter)

Bands: Can be purchased at http://www.Bulkpart.com

A84026A 1st & 2nd (Center Band) 1-2 Coast 91-up

B84022E FWD (Rear band) 91-up

B84024A Reverse (Front Band) 91-up

Bushing Kit: Can be purchased at http://www.Bulkpart.com

84030E Bushing Kit 91-up

Thrust washer kit and Misc items: Purchased from http://www.<wbr>transmissionpartsusa.com

37670A 4t60e Thrust Washer kit 93-up

84532-01k Differential Lube Tube Retainer

84881 Solid pump slide pivot Pin (pack of 5)

4662 Transmission Pump vane (9 needed)

37954 3rd Clutch Bonded Rubber Piston 91-99 (If needed)

37953 2nd clutch Bonded Rubber Piston 91-99 (I would suggest replacing during rebuild)

37888 4t60e Dual red strip vacuum Modulator 83-99 (Universal Adjustable type)

Sprags: MUST REPLACE STOCK on 95-older http://www.bulkpart.<wbr>com

A44654 1991-1995 1-2 Roller (springs rub inner race and burn out causing failure.)

A84652A 1-2 Roller 1996-up (Factory one typically lasts just fine.)

Now everything that has been done to my trans has been done in an odd fashion…

I first purchased a Deluxe rebuild kit from Northern Auto which included all the bonded pistons for the apply clutches, two bands, and more, Part Number #84008EA… The piston are not always needed since they don’t wear out that often and most of the apply pistons have lip seals which come in the soft kit. Also when I purchased this full kit it contained the full bushing kit so I did not have to purchase this separate, I listed all the items separate above because if you buy a full kit you waste money on a set of clutches you won’t use. I didn’t do the math, but if you get a full kit that comes with steels and bushings pistons, and bands (if noted) then you may save some money over buying all individual. I only recently did the Stage 1 kit from Level 10 where I'm replacing all the clutches and steels, and replacing my bands since I found a burnt one, and also putting in all new seals since I'm in there, I'm leaving the bushings alone since they look just fine.

[harry yarnell]

This '98 engine that I'm thinking of buying, comes with its own tranny (4T65?). It's in a clapped out Riv with 81K on the clock. What else should I pull from this car?

Half shafts?....

[Ronnie]

jbeary , what is the total cost for all the parts you quoted that should be used?

[jbeary]

I have seen posts from people who say the most direct swap from any series 1 set up to a series 2 is to swap the entire subframe. The 91 half shaft is the only thing you need to put the series 1 bolted to the 440T4 into a 89 subframe as far as I know. Get the ECM and as much wiring as you can either way just in case.

Supposedly the 89-95 Riviera subframes are the same as the Reatta's, I don't know for sure though. The 96 and beyond L67's were decked and the block is shorter so none of the mounts line up to the earlier subframe.

The 95 and later ECM pinouts are different too so you have to think about the wiring or rewiring. The most straightforward method is to keep all of your existing sensors and wiring and just let your existing ECM manage the supercharged engine. You will need a new fuel map burned onto your chip. Speak with Ryan Gick of Sinister Performance in Fort Wayne who has done his share of these. He's very responsive and offers some very practical advice and I recommend contacting him. You can always resell these L67 engines so if you are waiting to make a purchase, I would not hesitate.

[jbeary]

@Ronnie - I'm not too sure about the pricing or availability. I do know that Raybestos still manufactures the stage 1 clutches and seems to have recently introduced another performance line of clutches when I looked. The original post is here: http://60degreev6.com/forum/showthread.php/45950-4t60e-Performance-Rebuild-kit/page2

The poster doing the rebuild, 3400-95-Modified is probably the only person I found instructions such as this from. If you read his entire post, he started by talking about a company in New Jersey offering a "bullet-proof" upgrade kit for the 4T60e. Company name is Level 10 (http://ujue5.xspw3.servertrust.com/Level_10_PTS_Bulletproof_Rebuilding_Kit_p/gmct-gm110-7000.htm). This kit is nearly $400 now and the poster had some complaints about the kit he'd received and decided to go out, do the research himself and buy what he felt were better parts than what had come with the kit. Note that he not only bought the Level 10 "bulletproof" kit but also had to buy a standard kit because he didn't have all the right parts. Granted I think some of the valve modifications were overkill but the very basic parts and pieces that come in these "kits" varies widely.

Personally, i started looking for a kit for the 4T60e after I bought a rebuild kit for the Th-400 for the car in the back yard. Could not find anyone aside from Level 10 offering such a kit as the B&M performance master rebuild kit I'd bought and happened upon this guys post.

To stay on topic, there's some very good boards out there regarding 3800 engine swaps. Google "3.8 engine swap". The engine swap actually sounds pretty easy if you have a 91. A little more challenging for the 89 and the fact that the 89 transmission is so weak really kills that idea for me. Hooked up to the LN3, the 440t doesn't kill the Reatta. There are lots of junked ssei's with bad 4T60e's. That's the thing about the LN3, it's too wimpy for the 440t to get completely beat up. If you try to add more power to the LN3 it gets pricey real fast and the same goes for the 4 speed autos of the era. When you get to the mid-90's these L67's having all that air shoved into them, they had to get better and they did.

That's why I'm suggesting Harry buy this engine with the transmission. At 80K on the clock, I'd call a 98 3.8 sc engine "gently used". Paying someone to modify a cradle that would accommodate this engine and getting the driveline hooked up would be less in the long run than rebuilding a junk engine like I plan to do.

Any thought about that Daniel?