Hot Rods In the AACA System

[Guest]

It was certainly not my intention to circumvent or usurp anyone's authority by making the statement that the class proposed has been passed. I was simply trying to answer the questions that were posted as to the results of the vote. HVS is correct I was not there, I'm simply going on the information that was given to me by those who were in attendance. Since the beginning of this situation I have only done what was asked of me, that is to create a committee to investigate this class, define it's guidelines, research the class as proposed and report all this information to the officials who requested it in the first place. At that point I prepared a letter and sent it to the Antique Automobile Club of America. It was two years later that the topic was given the attention and discussion that has now lead to this reported vote. In posting the results of that vote as it had been explained to me was a continued effort to do what I thought was a courtesy reply, I in no way represent myself an anyone other than a interested car enthusiast just like many of you. My only conclusion is that since I had been involved in this effort for over two years that a prompt phone call to tell me the outcome was not unreasonable. To anyone who has been offended by my statement, I'm Sorry. I believe that their will be an article in the club magazine and the entire membership will be informed as to the outcome on a timetable that the officials deem appropriate. Once again I would like to apologize to those who feel I have overstepped by bounds.<BR>Sincerely<BR>Jerry Duncan

[ronbarn]

1937 - According to the 2000 copy of the AACA winners listing, 155 race vehicles have won awards at National Meets. Assuming there were a few that were certified and did not win a First Junior, and assuming that there were less than 20 that won in 2000 through current meets, I think it would be safe to say that certified race vehicles number between 175 and 200. A precise number could probably be determined through a more rigorous search of the records, but this number should be sufficient for the questions you have. However, that is still the secondary subject of this thread. The primary subject, as HVS clearly mentions, is how the Hot Rod consideration was handled and is still being handled.

[Guest]

One week since the Board meeting where the decision on the Hot Rods was made and <B>STILL</B> no input from any of our elected leaders. <P>I would think that by now someone, and it should probably be the VP of Class Judging who chairs the Judging Committee, should have been able to locate their computer. <P>7 days and counting. ~ hvs

[1937hd45]

Thank you Ron. There must be more "Certified Race Vehicles" than I thought, since you are only counting winners. My 1962 Lyndwood rail has its "AACA Certified" tag proudly mounted on the firewall but has never made the show field, and there must be others. I still don't see any problem with the addition of a few "Certified" Hot Rods, not when they are compaired with all the "new" 25 year old cars that are added to the show field every year.

[Guest]

Hey 1937, what about my early postwar midget racer built around an Indian 4 cyl motorbike engine?<BR>How can I get that certified?

[1937hd45]

LI, The very first thing is to find out who owned and drove the car. You need a photo of the car "as raced" in the year it raced and proof, race program etc. Request a "Certification" form from the Vice President of class judging, full in the blanks and you are on your way.

[Guest]

I just received an E-mail from a National Director wherein he reminded me that the long standing policy of the AACA Board is that Directors should <B>NOT</B> answer questions outside of their areas of responsibility, but should refer those questions to the responsible Director.<P>I can vouch for the longevity of that policy based on the fact that I stressed it to the Board when I first became AACA President way back in 1988. Father Ron was my first recipient of that policy when I dumped a hot potato in his lap early in 1988. I think it is a valid policy, therefore we should not be hard on those Directors NOT directly involved in this issue who have not come on this forum with a response.<P>I would have hoped that all Directors, having been painted with the broad brush of criticism up to this point, would have prevailed upon the responsible party to fulfill his obligations, but if some did, it has had no result.<P>Therefore, the time has come to stop beating around the bush and place the blame where it belongs, squarely in the lap of the Vice President of Class Judging, Chairman of the Judging Committee and maker of the motion to admit the Hot Rods into the AACA system.<P>He has had a full week to address our concerns. Since he has not deemed it worthwhile to come to us, perhaps the time has come for us to go to him and demand the answers we seek.<P>For those interested the responsible party is: <P>Mr. Russell J. Fisher, VP Class Judging at<BR>RFisher@conproducts.com<P>So let's lay off of the other Directors and wait for Mr. F to respond. If we don't get answers, then we must ask the rest of the Board to do something.<P>A simple, straightforward response could have avoided all of this unpleasentness. Didn't anybody learn anything about the consequences of stonewalling from Nixon?<P>hvs

[Guest]

<B>A FURTHER THOUGHT!</B><P>When sending an E-mail to Mr. Fisher, send a copy to the AACA President at SRJRAACA@aol.com. I'm sure he would like to know of the level of concern among our members. ~ hvs<p>[ 07-04-2002: Message edited by: hvs ]

[Guest]

WOW!! Can't get a spce unless someone dies, but that Lil Duece Coup will get me in the show!!!!

[Guest]

Grettings,<BR>My name is Russ Fisher this years vp of Class Judging or as some of you have mentioned Class Trouble. To answer the question on the New Class 37, I will give a response in the next few days once I have the offical written motion. Until then I will more than happy to answer your questions if you email, write or call me. My phone number is 1 414 213 6898 which is a cell phone with voice mail. <BR>Thanks for you interest in the AACA Class Judging system.<BR>Russ Fisher<p>[ 07-06-2002: Message edited by: rjfsonofkrf ]

[Guest]

Thank you Russ. Glad to have you join our little group.<P>Now that you are here, don't be a stranger in the future. There is nothing more positive than a response, even if it is to say as you just did, that the answer will be forthcoming.<P>Welcome ~ hvs

[1937hd45]

Thank you and welcome Russ! Class 37, that is a good number and omen. Best year for Harley and the Type 37 Bugatti is on the top of my "Wish List".

[Guest]

To: Russ<BR>From: 30 year AACA member<P>Russ, I am a little confused and hope you can explain some things to us. You stated that you are waiting for an official written motion before you address the Hot Rod Class issue on the forum. I assume you or one of your committee members, with your blessing, made the motion on the floor. <P>This would be the ‘official motion’ given orally or in writing form to the board. The secretary only documents what was stated and I hope the board reviews the minutes when they are finished for accuracy of what transpired. Therefore, you are the keeper of the 'official motion', who are you waiting for to tell you what the official motion was? You are the one that would have that information. I certainly hope that you would have a record of what you and your committee proposed. You are making it appear that you do not know what the official motion was and the board properly is not sure what they voted on. <P>Since this was such a controversial issue, why didn’t you have enough common sense to prepare a statement immediately to the membership on the forum? Here we are over one week later and you are telling us that you do not even have the ‘official written motion’ at hand. <P>Concerned AACA Member – over 30 years <BR>

[Guest]

This is Russ Fisher Vp of Class Judging.If there any questions concerning Class 37 or any other Judging issues please Email,write or call me on my cell phone at 1 414 213 6898. I will be happy to answer your issues.<BR>Voice mail is enabled at that number.<BR>Thanks for your interest in AACA Class Judging. I am always open to personal contact.

[Guest]

Russ,<P>I hope you will address my earlier post via the forum. I think the readers would like to hear your response along with me. The forum is a communication tool for the AACA members to use. I hope your earlier post is not directed to me to call or email you. I have legitimate concerns and wish to use the forum as my means of commnication. I cetainly hope you respect a tool which was created by your board and address my questions through this forum.<P>Thank you

[Guest]

he probably wont. it looks like he wants to avoid the responsibility for what he has done. 1 on 1 he can hide the truth. on here we can all see him. time will tell.

[Guest]

For the record, the AACA Directors didn?t create this forum, I did. They have however been great in supporting me, the AACA website, and this forum. With that said some Directors are none-to-thrilled about the forums because of mudslinging -- exactly like what is being thrown around in this thread as we speak.<P>Russ said he'd "give a response in the next few days." Give him a chance to do just that before you complain.<P>Peter<P>P.S. Where are the regulars who complain about unregistered postings now?

[Guest]

to russ fisher, i look forward to seeing this new class. as anyone who read the class qualifications knows these cars do belong at a show for people who trully love old cars. to peterg this forum is great.i appreciate your effort and the place for these uniformed to blow off about what they don't understand.

[RoadsterRich]

To Peter, and everyone else as well...<P>I applaud the forums and the great effort required to maintain them. I have mixed emotions on the issue of Hotrods. I am particularly dismayed at the lack of dissemination of information to general members prior to the issue being brought to the board. While like everyone else I am impatient to hear the results, I believe it far more important that those in the know take the time to confirm their perception of the actual events prior to posting their interpretations of the results. I look forward to hearing an accurate account of the results of the discussions and vote.<P>In the meantime I will continue to place the proper level of importance upon the posts of those who would rather cower behind anonymity than take a legitimate stand and express their opinions publicly and openly as their own.<P>Peter, I will stand behind you and these forums anywhere anytime, be it here online or at a meeting of the Board. While at times there may be mudslinging, the benefits these forums have personally bestowed upon me through the common wealth of knowledge found here greatly outweighs any possible annoyance caused by the minority of malicious users. I believe over time these forums will become a vital part of the restoration and conservation of countless automobiles. My roadster has benefited greatly from the resource, not to mention my back and my knuckles.<P>As I wrote this it occurred to me, that I too am a part of the ?problem?. I have stated many opinions regarding issues of the AACA on these forums. I have never contacted anyone at the AACA, nor have I actually brought up these issues within my own region of the AACA. Perhaps it is easier to be a hypocrite than to be an active participant in the present and the future of the AACA. I know I have some serious thinking to do, I hope others will take the time to ponder just how easy it is to criticize, applaud, malign, praise, and second guess others while sitting on the sidelines watching. Perhaps the real issue is not the lack of information from the board, but rather the lack of participation by the membership, I do not know anyone else?s answer, however I do know that I will be rethinking my level of commitment and involvement within the organization as a whole.<P>We must move forward with the AACA, and we must understand that just as the automobile has evolved over time, so must an organization evolve to incorporate new ideas, technologies and members, that it may remain a vital part of the community.<P>Rich

[Guest]

OK -- Here is a registered, active member of the forum complaining about the unregistered posters on this issue. Without taking the time to go back and re-read almost 100 posts, my memory tells me that at the beginning, virtually all of the posts on this subject were by registered members. Lets hope it will revert to that status if the thread continues, which it probably will until we receive a satisfactory response from the powers that be. <P>I started this thread and have been back several times and in my own name. I stand behind what I have said and believe that my position has been made abundently clear. I do NOT oppose the Hot Rods, only the manner in which the creation of class 37 has been handled.<P>What puzzles me the most is how the person who made the motion to create the class now comes on and says he has to check the official record as to what the motion was. Does he not remember what he moved and does he not have a copy of the motion in his personal file on the subject? Jerry Duncan seems to have a very clear idea of what the motion was and what the Board apparently passed.<P>Jerry told all of us what the new class 37 is and the plans for its implementation. Now will the VP please move forward promptly and confirm or deny Jerry's information.<P>Am I singling out the VP of Class Judging for the majority of my criticism. Yes! Sorry Russ, but the handling of this issue has been less than what the AACA membership has a right to expect.<P>hvs

[Guest]

I just went back and re-read peterg's last post.<P>If speaking the truth, even though it may be unpleasant and uncomplimentary is mud slinging, then I must be guilty. Is asking hard questions mud slinging? To the politically correct it might be considered such. <P>However, Webster defines mudslinging as "The practice of making unscrupulous malicious attacks against an opponent." Can the truth be defined as malicious or unscrupulous? ~ <P>And Peter mentions that some of the Directors are unhappy about some of what appears on this Forum. <P>Is this unhappiness what has led one or more Directors to state that because Howard started and pursued this Hot Rod, Class 37 issue, and because Howard has been a leader in the movement to reform the ballot process to the "Vote for 5-7 plan", that they intend to defeat the ballot reform proposal in October to get even with Howard.<P>Great, screw the membership to get at Howard.<BR>What confuses me is how this is supposed to hurt me? ~ hvs

[Guest]

Howard,<P>My posting was not directed toward you. Here is the cronology of what i saw in this forum that prompted my last post.<P>--Complaints about the lack of information about the new judging class. (a good thing)<P>--Lots of misinformed debate about said class. (still a good thing)<P>--A posting by a Director promising more detailed information soon. (a good thing)<P>--Impatient unregistered users complaining. (still acceptable, but seems kind silly to me that they couldnt wait a few days)<P>My point was very simple. Give Russ a chance to respond.<P>Peter<P>P.S. If you recall some directors were not thrilled with the forum going back 4 years. And if you recall, some of the regulars here were in that group.<p>[ 07-06-2002: Message edited by: peterg ]

[Guest]

Fair enough Peter <P>All I ever wanted to do was get the facts out in the open and I believe that in due course that will happen. <P>Would anyone have ever imagined that this subject would go to three pages?<P>I guess the big question now boils down to, is this only an exhibition class or is it to become a judged class. Since I believe that it has been given a judging class designation [#37], then it follows that they should be judged. We have no other exhibition classes within the numbered class lineup.<P>There is HPOF and DPC, which are evaluated but not judged, and do not have class #s. Hot Rods, if kept as class #37 should be judged.<P>But that is just my opinion. ~ hvs

[1937hd45]

Sorry, I can't keep up with the semantics and Roberts Rules or whatever has Howard in a tizzy, and I'd bet most Joe Adverage AACA members are lost as well. Since when did the membership vote on club policy? The "Certified" Hot Rod class is a fine addition in my opinion, and I'm sure Russ Fisher will post a proper report. Class 37 is for members that have an interest in Historic Hot Rods, if you don't like that type of vehicle simply walk by it. There countless AACA classes that I turn a blind eye to on my way to "The Good Cars". To each his/her own, it is a big hobby with a lot of fine vehicles.

[Guest]

Bob <P>#1 I am not in a tizzy as you choose to put it.<P>#2 Roberts Rules were never a part of this discussion.<P>#3 Semantics may or may not be an issue with some, maybe you but not me.<P>#4 Timely and accurate disclosure has been my issue from the beginning.<P><B>HOT RODS WERE NEVER THE ISSUE WHEN THIS POST WAS STARTED AND STILL AREN'T WHERE I AM CONCERNED.</B>. Had the issue been motorized manure spreaders or baby carriages I would have asked the same questions. <P>So now, why don't we all just wait for Russ Fisher to come on here with the rest of the story. I will. ~ hvs

[1937hd45]

Howard, Thanks for the explanation. My point has always been how does anyone (AACA general member) know what the board is doing, or going to do. We'll find out after the fact, but never know what is on the table for discussion.

[ex98thdrill]

Howard,<BR> You sure know how to pick 'em don't you? I've seen threads die after 5 or 6 postings, but you sure do manage to weave a rug. Don't take this as a complaint, but I have to admit that you bring up a lot of good points and usually draw the response in (some of it entertaining, some of it, well??) which is often good for the organization.<P>Peter,<BR> Regardless of how much arguing goes on this post from time to time (either good or bad), don't ever doubt yourself for starting the forum. IT IS A GOOD THING!! To be honest with you, the only reason I ever got involved with the forum to begin with, was because I was looking for parts on a project (our '37 Plymouth PT-50 pickup). I have gotten a lot of information off of the forum and I'm glad to have had it. Sometimes the politics are both good and bad, but otherwise it has been a great tool in preserving our club and our hobby. Thanks to the contacts that I have established through the forum, my father and I have been able to get our truck finished, and with any luck, we'll be getting our senior at Purchase, NY in August. Although I won't be there to see it, I'm hoping that when I get back to the good side of the big pond, the senior badge will be on the front of the old truck.

[Guest]

I am a fairly recent participant in the discussuion forum and for that matter, puters too. Peter tells me the forum was started in 1997, and I would like to know what you guys did to find out what was being presented to the board and voted on and what action was taken prior to the forum, if you were not a member of the board. Having been an AACA member since 84 or so, and having just chaired a national meet It appears to me that the board, past and present has done an excellent job. The entire board and officers serve as volunteers and without pay. Many have just completed a 6 week schedule of meets in GA. VA and Iowa at their own expense and on their own time. Perhaps a little appreciation of the service they perform for us all, would go a long way to you obtaining the information a little sooner, you seem to want so desperately. I notice the forum list 8400 registered users and I suggest the less than 1% on this thread with a problem fairly represents the 66,000 membership. Incidentally I am in favor of class 37 or whatever it will be called. Please keep this thread going as it does provide me a daily dose of humor.

[Guest]

See the AACA Board press release on the issue at: <BR> <A HREF="http://www.aaca.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=002888" TARGET=_blank>http://www.aaca.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=002888</A> <P>Please continue this discussion under the new heading.<P>Thanks,<P>Peter<p>[ 07-07-2002: Message edited by: peterg ]