Model A engine and carb question

[Guest Strange]

Hello All,

So, it looks like after many years of looking I am going to jump into purchasing my first antique car. It's a 31 model A. I've been trying to do some homework on the car and it appears that at one time the engine was switched for an earlier 1929 or there abouts motor is I understand my motor numbers correctly. It also has the early zenith 1 carb on it. I was wondering if anyone knew if the early motors could be fit with the zenith 2 which as I understand is the proper one for a 31 ford? Any corrections of my misinformation is also appreciated!

I'll post pictures when she finally arrives. Still lots of paperwork and finalizing to do first.

Thanks!

[jpage]

With a very few changes all Model A engines are basically alike. All year engines will interchange with each other. You can change to the Zenith 2 carb with no problem but you may have to change the fuel supply tube and the fuel sediment bowl. Actually they did use the standard Zenith 1 carbs in '31 (along with the Zenith 2 ) but then changed to the side mount sediment bowl which became standard around mid '31. Zenith made the no. 1 carbs and Holley made the no.2 and Ford made the no. 3's. Chances are , unless the car is all original and unmolested, the engine was a rebuilt unit installed in place of the orignal by someone who didn't care about the numbers,but there were many more engines built than there were cars for each year and some early engines may have ended up in the aftermarket.

[Guest Strange]

With a very few changes all Model A engines are basically alike. All year engines will interchange with each other. You can change to the Zenith 2 carb with no problem but you may have to change the fuel supply tube and the fuel sediment bowl. Actually they did use the standard Zenith 1 carbs in '31 (along with the Zenith 2 ) but then changed to the side mount sediment bowl which became standard around mid '31. Zenith made the no. 1 carbs and Holley made the no.2 and Ford made the no. 3's. Chances are , unless the car is all original and unmolested, the engine was a rebuilt unit installed in place of the orignal by someone who didn't care about the numbers,but there were many more engines built than there were cars for each year and some early engines may have ended up in the aftermarket.

Thanks for the reply! That;s what I thought. The last rsstoration was about 20 years ago. the motor number is in the million mark, which is what makes me put it along the 1929 mark. Good to know that the switch to the different carb wouldn't be that difficult. The one I'm looking at has the indented firewall with the fuel shutoff inside the engine compartment, which I understand would have had the Zenith 2 carb with the sediment bowl down by the carb. I'm not sure if there is any value in returning it to a more original late 31 look or not.

Anyone have any opinion on if the Zenith 2 is any better than the Zenith 1?

[Dave Mellor NJ]

As far as I know the Zenith 1 and early 2 (Fuel line goes in the front) are the same except the 1 uses more brass parts.The rebuild kits are the same. As you know, the late 2 and the 3 had the sidebowl and are correct for late 31 like yours. The problem with restoring a late 31 is there are many unique parts to track down. This convinces some people to change the firewall and tank to an earlier,straight unit so you can use the more common parts. It is also a nuisance to keep opening the hood to shut off the fuel.

[Guest Strange]

As far as I know the Zenith 1 and early 2 (Fuel line goes in the front) are the same except the 1 uses more brass parts.The rebuild kits are the same. As you know, the late 2 and the 3 had the sidebowl and are correct for late 31 like yours. The problem with restoring a late 31 is there are many unique parts to track down. This convinces some people to change the firewall and tank to an earlier,straight unit so you can use the more common parts. It is also a nuisance to keep opening the hood to shut off the fuel.

Hello. Thanks for the response. I was wondering, don't you have to reach into the hood to turn on and off the electrical switch anyway? The one I'm looking at definitely has the fuel valve inside the engine compartment. Now you have me curious as to what other parts would be specific to the 31. More homework to do. I had a suspicion that the difficulty of getting all correct 31 parts might have lead to the switch in engines. I've tried to put a pic of the engine compartment into the post below. Now hopefully the deal will close soon.

[jpage]

If your car is wired correctly you shouldn't need an auxilliary electrical switch,but some folks like them, especially if their cars need wiring work! About may '31 Ford switched to the indented firewall with the fuel shutoff mounted ouside the body and moved the fuel filter down to the side of the carb. This ,I'm sure, was to check complaints of leaking gas and gas odors inside the cars. Over the years your car has lost all of those features probably due to ignorance, apathy and hard to find parts. I've seen very few side mount carbs and they may be a little hard to find but if you check any of the MAFCA or MARC chapters I'm sure you'll be able to drum something up. You will also need the correct fuel shut off and fuel line if you want to return it to original . The repairs to your car look amateurish and we cannot see what riggings they have for a shutoff inside the body. Fuel lines were made from steel and are available ,as is the correct repro fuel shutoff and carb mounted sediment bowl, from any of the good "A" parts vendors . The correct carb might be a little harder to find. I think it would look better if you made the changes but it's not going to affect performance. I would however,nix that air cleaner; they only filter out small rocks and birds and I think it also cuts down on air intake on an already starved engine! No Model A fords came with air cleaners . Those manifold heater setups were also, I believe, non Ford accessories; they tend to be dangerous by letting in exhaust fumes. You could also use some grommets for your headlamp conduits through the shell and also looks like the conduit are not correct. Do you have the original connection on the lamps or did somebody change those? Some good books to pick up; "The Ford Model A (as Henry built it)", the " Model A Judging Standards" and " Henry's Lady" which is mostly a comparison picture book. The more you read , the more you'll know! Here's a couple of pics of my baby ( now gone) but she wasn't 100 percent correct either!

[Guest Strange]

If your car is wired correctly you shouldn't need an auxilliary electrical switch,but some folks like them, especially if their cars need wiring work! About may '31 Ford switched to the indented firewall with the fuel shutoff mounted ouside the body and moved the fuel filter down to the side of the carb. This ,I'm sure, was to check complaints of leaking gas and gas odors inside the cars. Over the years your car has lost all of those features probably due to ignorance, apathy and hard to find parts. I've seen very few side mount carbs and they may be a little hard to find but if you check any of the MAFCA or MARC chapters I'm sure you'll be able to drum something up. You will also need the correct fuel shut off and fuel line if you want to return it to original . The repairs to your car look amateurish and we cannot see what riggings they have for a shutoff inside the body. Fuel lines were made from steel and are available ,as is the correct repro fuel shutoff and carb mounted sediment bowl, from any of the good "A" parts vendors . The correct carb might be a little harder to find. I think it would look better if you made the changes but it's not going to affect performance. I would however,nix that air cleaner; they only filter out small rocks and birds and I think it also cuts down on air intake on an already starved engine! No Model A fords came with air cleaners . Those manifold heater setups were also, I believe, non Ford accessories; they tend to be dangerous by letting in exhaust fumes. You could also use some grommets for your headlamp conduits through the shell and also looks like the conduit are not correct. Do you have the original connection on the lamps or did somebody change those? Some good books to pick up; "The Ford Model A (as Henry built it)", the " Model A Judging Standards" and " Henry's Lady" which is mostly a comparison picture book. The more you read , the more you'll know! Here's a couple of pics of my baby ( now gone) but she wasn't 100 percent correct either!

Beautiful truck! And thank you for all of the tips and observations. Someone had mentioned an electrical switch inside the engine compartment that you needed to turn to start a Model A, so it's interesting to hear that this was not an original feature.

If you can believe I'm still working on getting the car. Thought it was a set deal, but I ran into some titling issues that need to be straightened out first. It's difficult to make out in my picture, but there is reportedly a small shut-off valve right near the upper sediment tank. I've got a lead on a spare 31 engine, but I haven't seen it yet. I'll pursue that if I'm able to get over these titling issues and actually get the car.

I'm unsure of the complete history of the car, I know a father & son shop has been doing the maintenance work on it, but they admitted they had no idea what an original Model A should look like. They put in the fuel line, replacing what had been a jury rigged rubber line with hose clamps at each end. On the good side I'm hoping that these hopefully minor issues will give me some things I can do to slowly improve on the car over time. It's been re-bodied to the point that I don't know if I'd ever be sure what the original car looked like. Fingers crossed.