Avanti questions

[avantey]

Last night I got to hear my Avanti run for the first time in two years! However we have some troubles and question maybe someone can help with. A young friend who is a pro mechanic with a great shop is helping but he is learning the hard lesson of 'bag n tag, photograph everything and take notes the hard way. He has never worked on old cars and now sees where time apart is your enemy! He got anxious and pulled the engine one weekend without me present.....

1. As we reconnected all the wires there is a green with black trace that comes from the firewall to the distributor area. It is not listed in the schematic anywheres, is not hot and is not 'switched' (hot with key on) so I am guessing it is sending a signal to the dash. Cannot trace it under the dash either, only finding the black wirth green trace by the tach sending unit. But it does look original with the rubbery cover over the base of the prong connector, about a 16 guage wire. What, to where- any ideas?

2. I got a frantic call from him at 6:15 AM today. Seems all five gallons of non- corn fuel I put in the tank last nite was all over the floor in his shop!! I had sealed the tank years ago and am guessing the tank sealant is now pretty shot. Is there a repro tank being made? He did say it looked like it had eaten a piece of rubber hose by the tank but 5g is only a quarter tank or so and I don't think it would siphon out via the line so the dripping must have attacked the hose.

3. The ballast resistor next to the coil gets very hot if you leave the key on but not running, only warm when running. Actually started to smoke on us but the car ran after that.

It is not a normal R1 Avanti by the way. My father did not like the dual point distributor after a while so he replaced it with a distributor from a 1957-58 Stude, probably a 259 , the predecessor to the 289. COnsequently the wiring is a little rigged and replaced with incorrect color codes, etc.

Thank you all for any help! I was so excited to think my girl would come home this week and so disappointed today. We will work tonite and maybe figure things out yet!!

[unimogjohn]

Bill,

Good you are trying to get the old girl running. Of course we will help.

Re the gas issue. There is a rubber hose coming out the bottom of the tank and connects to the steel line that runs from back to front. You need to replace it and while you are at it I would replace the rubber lines from the steel line in front to the fuel pump and then from the fuel pump to the carb. To my knowledge no one is making a new tank. There was a rumor that Nostalgic Motors had a SS tank. Worse case you can pull yours again and take it to Gas Tank Renu franchise. They are pricey, about $600 to 800 depending on how bad your tank is. But then again, it is guaranteed forever.

Re the ballast resistor. Sounds like it is working as designed. The resistor drops the 12v to 8v when the car is running and the starter disengaged. There is a wire that goes from the ignition switch to the coil that gives a full 12v when starting only. If you ran 12v all the time your points would burn up quickly.

Re the wire. What is the black wire connected to. That would help. It could be to the tack sender.

If you want to call my phone is 540 364 2454.

[avantey]

We figured out the black is connected to coil (-). What about the smoke? It actually came into the cabin on the passenger side when it got real hot, and yet it still fired up pretty easily. like nothing was damaged.

Thanks for the help John

[unimogjohn]

Bill, re the smoke. I was playing around mine and accidentally sprayed some WD40 around and on it. Lots of smoke. So it had some cleaning or oil residue on it, then it would smoke until it burned off. Should not do it now unless it got sprayed again.

[Guest stude8]

The question in post #1 about a wire [Green w/Black trace] in area of distributor should be from the 1.25 ohm ballast resistor to the ignition coil (+) terminal. It is shown in the Avanti wiring diagram BUT is not numbered *See wire 22A from ignition switch TO ballast resistor input.

Stude8

[avantey]

Stude 8- It's interesting that you say that. I just got back from working on the car and I looked at the schematic again. Mine, in the shop manual, is very different from the one Seventh son scanned and posted. All the code for numbers and color are on a separate page and incomplete. Chris's has the number and color right along the wire in his schematic. But mine and I think Chris's say that 22A wire is black with green trace. This one is the opposite. I just went and checked Chris's and it says black-green which I assume is green tracer and it goes from the G lug on the ign switch to the ballast resistor. A black wire goes from the B lug on switch to the ammeter.

As for the gas leak- the gas tank issue was just a cut fuel line where it joined the steel line back by the tank and it did not drain 5G out, his exaggeration. It is all good now and we rolled her back inside for the night. When I go back out there I will replace the two fuel line pieces by the filter and then all lines are new material and hopefully ethanol resistant.

I have to go work on my tour planning now but things are better and thanks for all the help!

[Rusty_OToole]

The ballast resistor will get hot and smoke if it is connected to power, the engine not running, and the points are closed. Then it is grounded and receiving full power from the battery.

If the points happen to be open it will not get hot at all as the circuit is effectively "switched off".

When the engine is running it will get warm as the points continuously switch the power "on and off".

[avantey]

Rusty- That is what I was hoping to have verified here as it was my understanding of the ignition circuit. My concern then becomes what are the probabilities of the points being closed in multiple, closely spaced occurences? In a V8 distrbutor cam the points open every 45 degrees and are closed in between so I guess the key on/ closed points scenario is quite frequent.

So if I left the key on would it toast the resistor or the condenser or what?

Thank you,

[RStrasser]

If you leave the ignition switch on with the points closed you will end up burning up the points. It is normal for the resistor to get hot, It has to dissipate 3 or 4 volts so the coil runs on 8 volts. The resistor is encased in ceramic so it does not melt.

In the diagram for the Avanti electrical system that is in the Avanti manual there is no mention of a green with black wire, only the black with green wire which is shown going from the Distributor to the tach sending unit.

I am located about 50 miles South of Albany NY if i can be of further help.

Ron

[Rusty_OToole]

Don't leave the key on, but if you do, the resistor will get hot but should not burn out unless it is old or defective. Your battery will run flat first. It is theoretically possible to burn the points this way but I have not seen it. You would have to leave the key on for a long time.

[RStrasser]

Update on the green with black tracer wire. After Avanti models 63R2602 Studebaker added a resistor bypass wire to the wire harness. The service bulletin # J-1963-11 does not mention the wire color. The wire is installed between the + terminal of the ignition coil and the ignition terminal on the starter solenoid.

[avantey]

Mr. Strasser that is absolutely uncanny!! My car is 63R2602!! My father bought it new in Rochester, NY in March 1963, first car delivered in Rochester. I will trace check the starter solenoid tomorrow evening when I go back out to the car.

Do you know why there are versions of the schematic? 63 vs 64 maybe?

THANKS!

[Guest stude8]

My answer in post #5 explained the wire shown in the original Avanti work shop wiring diagram from the ballast resistor to ignition coil (+) terminal was not numbered in the wire list text. The reference to 22A was simply to guide you to the source of voltage to the ballast resisitor in the diagram.

A number of production changes to the Avanti wiring were made over time and documented by "Service Letter" publications two of these related to ignition system were J-1963-6 and J-1963-11. I did a search of my Avanti documentation files and found them and scanned them to insert here. It is possible even at this point in time that not all Avanti's had these changes installed so you can read the details and confirm if the changes exist on your car.

*Due to forum file size limits the 8-1/2" x 11" page sizes had to be reduced to 5 x 7 to get data down to 1MB each.

Stude8

[avantey]

I was able to zoom in on each page and read them easily, thanks. I think this solves the mystery wire right down to the color but will have to get to the car to confirm. Barring any more new problems we should be able to button thngs up and bring her home by the weekend. Then I'll try to concentrate on house work with my little red go-like-hell car sitting theere calling me to come play! Not too sure the house can't wait- again......

I do read and learn from you folks, just don't feel knowledgeable enough to contribute often. Now does anyone know a source for 1931 Hupp valves? I have that engine out for rebuild to tour it next year and they are elusive so far.

Thanks to all for all the lessons!!

[unimogjohn]

Bill, keep us posted on your ride this weekend. Let us know how everything comes out.

[SeventhSon]

I was looking at that wire today on my Avanti (63R2710). It looks to be brown in color - of course that could just be the dirt!

[avantey]

Well, I finally lost a part for the Avanti. With it spread between two shops for two years I am surprised it took this long quite frankly. Neither of us can put our hands on the air filter base, I swear I painted it when I did the fan cowl and he says it is not in his shop. Guess I will do a deep dig at his place tomorrow. I would hate for that to be the reason she is not home Sat or Sun!! Anyone got an extra R1 air filter base?

[unimogjohn]

Bill, if you cannot find one, I would order a "looks like" air filter from Summit Racing. They have a bunch and almost no one would know the difference.