25 DB clutch grease cup

[Guest Larry Pletcher]

I have worried that I had no way of knowing if grease from the cup on the floor board was reaching the clutch. Today when servicing my 25 DB I tried to push grease down through the tube. I encountered very stiff resistance. I fear that the line from the grease cup on the floor board going to the clutch is clogged with old grease. I'm not sure what is the best way to clear the line. Any suggestions?

(This car was restored by my father in law in 1963. When he passed away, we were able to keep it. I'd guess that the line was open when it was restored, but it sat a long time when he was in poor health. The car is in quite good shape, with only a few problems. I have more questions but will ask them in other topics.)

Regards,

Larry Pletcher

[R.White]

You could try removing the inspection cover from the clutch and see if you can get a wrench on the bottom of the pipe and remove it completely from the car. Clean out and recharge with fresh grease before refitting.

I have not done this myself, so perhaps someone who has can say if it's the right proceedure.

Ray

[Guest 1930]

The line runs right down into the throwout bearing on the DA, cant remember how hard it is to remove whilst still in the car and since yours is earlier anyway I better stop while Im ahead

[R.White]

If the throwout bearing is quiet, it's probably o.k. - but that's just 'garage speak'.

I just put my modern into our local garage for the M.O.T. and service. They said it needed two new tyres and a track rod end. "That will be £500 thankyou".

I had just hammered out a good deal from them on a new (almost) car, so they hit me with the service bill. I have a word for them but it'd get kicked again by the moderator! :mad:

Ray.

[1936 D2]

... but it'd get kicked again by the moderator! :mad:

Ray.

Hey Ray...I don't think your comment recently that got kicked was a personal affront. I think it was just in a pack of stuff by a few people that got kicked 'cause it was all off topic.

Anyway, There is also a possibility on this clutch lubrication issue that the bearing may have been changed to a modern "permanently sealed" version and there is no place for the grease to go. The end by the bearing is essentially dead ended. This is just a possible thought and would have to be investigated.

[Pete K.]

The grease line to the throw out bearing greases the inner race of the bearing that it slides on the transmission input tube. Some throw out bearing cages,the old type, had a small opening to catch some of the grease to be introduced to the bearings. As was stated, if the throw out bearing was replaced in the last 40 years or so, It would be the sealed type.

[R.White]

Hey Ray...I don't think your comment recently that got kicked was a personal affront. I think it was just in a pack of stuff by a few people that got kicked 'cause it was all off topic.

No problems here, mate - I was laughing too much to be affronted

Ray

[Guest Larry Pletcher]

Thank you all for your comments. I haven't opened the floor yet to get at the cover over the clutch. I hope to do that tomorrow. I noticed that the tube running from the cup to the clutch is not the flexible one pictured as an original. It looks to be copper tubing at least near the top.

The clutch is making some noise. There is a jingling sound when one is shifting gears. The jingling stops when the clutch is depressed slightly. It makes no noise when traveling in high gear. As I have time to dive nto this deeper I'm let you knwo what I find.

Regards,

Larry Pletcher

[Guest 1930]

Jingling woud indicate a bad/dry throwout bearing, going away when clutch is slightly depressed would inducate a bad/dry throwout bearing

[R.White]

Yes, Jason beat me to it! The rattle could be coming also from the carrier, if not the bearing itself. Whatever, it ought to be looked at or it will drive you potty!

Edited April 22, 2012 by R.White (see edit history)

[R.White]

Iv'e just read your post again, Larry. I am trying to think why there is no noise when you are in top gear. I will try to prod the "little grey cells" and come back with something - or perhaps someone else will give us the answer.

[Guest 1930]

Quote........I am trying to think why there is no noise when you are in top gear...........Prob. because he is working his way toward deafness blocking out all the other noises naturally coming from his mother and law and the tranny

Edited April 22, 2012 by 1930 (see edit history)

[R.White]

At least he won't be able to hear any back seat drivers chuntering!

Ray

[Guest 1930]

See revised post above

[R.White]

[Guest Larry Pletcher]

THis morning I got the floor boards out of the way and opened the inspection port on the clutch. The attachment point for the grease tube was located so that I could easlity remove it . With the tubing removed, I used air to push out all old grease. I swapped the grease cup on the floor board with one that had a grease zerk. Using that I could add grease to the tube until it came out the low end. I reattached the low end and gave the gun a couple more squeezes, so I can now be sure I have nothing clogged, grease at the clutch, and a grease tube that is filled. At least for now I think I'll leave the cup with the zerk on the floor board.

As for the throw out bearing, I'm not enough of a mechanic to know if it is worn out. I could wiggle the grease tubing at the clutch and feel front-to-back play in the piece that the tube attaches to. There was also a smaller amount of side to side play as well. I don't know if this is normal or not. (I also don't know what to call the piece the grease tube attaches to.)

I'm also curious if the jingling noise is less after getting grease to it. In case there are other things I should try, I thought I'd wait to put the car back together until after I posted this.

I'm open to any suggestions.

Regards,

Larry

[1936 D2]

Is that grease tube solid copper tube all the way to its mounting at the bearing or does it have some flex tubing near the bearing end? If solid, how does that not vibrate, wiggle, move, every time the clutch is depressed? Wouldn't the top rattle on the floorboards?

[Guest Larry Pletcher]

It's good you mentioned that. It does have a flexible center section; copper at top and bottom. That allowed me to take it apart in the center and remove the lower section to blow out with air. The top I could blow out without removing it from the car.

Regards,

Larry

[Guest 1930]

Sounds like you over greased it which might get places you dont want it. The grease may take up some of the noise/play in the bearing assuming it is the original bearing but that will/may be only temporary until it works its way out again.

Good luck with it though

[Guest Larry Pletcher]

Jason,

You might be right about excess grease. Don't know yet. I'm pretty sure the bearing isn't a sealed one, by second guessing my father-in-law who passed years ago. I figure either the bearing didn't need replacement...., or more likely he took no chances and replaced it in 1963. (he was pretty thorough in his restorations.). My gut says he was the one who replaced the grease line. I don't see him replacing the line if he used a sealed bearing. And I'm not sure what would have been available in 1963 either.

I think I'll put the car back together tonight and see how it shifts.

Regards,

Larry

[Guest 1930]

quote.........I think I'll put the car back together tonight and see how it shifts......thats what I would do, tough to say whats excessive play in the bearing without being their first hand.

I replaced my original bearing with a sealed unit, didnt take much and although I kept the original tube I never have to worry about keeping it greased.

Have fun with your drive

[Guest Larry Pletcher]

We're back together and back from a test drive. The car doesn't seem any different. About the only thing I know is that the grease line isn't plugged, and I can get grease to the bearing.

The clutch sounds the same. Having paid more attention, I can give a better description of it though. The jingling begins when you let the clutch out in second. It continues to jingle through second until you push in the clutch to shift into high. No noise in high.

I want to thank everyone who offered suggestions. I'm probably not done with this, but feel I have somewhat of a handle on the problem.

Regards,

Larry Pletcher

Indiana

[R.White]

Hi Larry,

if the jingling only happens in second gear, I would guess the noise is coming from the transmisson.

Have you checked the oil level?

Ray.

[Guest Larry Pletcher]

Hi John,

I didnt think about lube in the transmission. I'll look into that this morning. My book shows a photo of lube being checked with a stick- inserted into transmission 10.5 inches and showing lube up to the 4.5 inch level. I assume that it needs the same thick gear lube that is used in the rear axle.

Regards,

Larry Pletcher

[R.White]

Hi Larry,

I should imagine the oil would be degraded by now in both the gearbox and the rear axle. I would suggest you make further enquiries but I believe 600w steam clyinder oil is suitable. I do know you should avoid the modern E.P. oils. I'm afraid I don't know the outlets for classic oils in the States but here in the U.K we would probably go to Penrite.

Ray

[Guest Larry Pletcher]

I use a 600w in the axles of two other cars - a '26 Model T and a '31 Model A. I have a small amount left, and ordered a couple quarts of 600-W Oil from Snyders, the folks here who supply Model A and T parts: Snyder's Antique Auto Parts - Model A Ford and Model T Ford Parts

The DB manual I have calls their transmission/axle lube "Dodge Bros Motor Car Gear Lubricant". I assume that T and A 600w lube will be acceptable.

Regards,

Larry Pletcher

[R.White]

I guess there are a few of us on here who are on a kind of learning curve, regardless of our previous experience with other old cars (which may well be quite considerable.) Like you, I am banking on similarities among vintage cars in general but open to the reality of Dodge Brothers being unique in certain areas.

I personally believe that the oil used in our DB cars should to be compatible with Ford; not least because they supplied them in the early days.

I am sure other forum contributors would join me in welcoming your experiences and adding to the sum of our knowledge. Some photos of your Dodge Brothers car would be great.

Ray

[Guest Larry Pletcher]

Ray,

The transmission gear lube was in fact low, so you win the prize for the correct answer. I have 600w and more on the way. A member of the Model T forum suggested that 140w from a parts store would be fine as well.

My DB manual suggests annually draining and flushing with kerosene before refilling. This hasn't been done for a while, so that will be my next step.

I haven't tried posting photos on this forum yet, so we'll see what happens: These were taken when our high school engineering class made its annual visit. They get a quick lesson about oil drips, grease cups, stationary engines, etc.

Regards,

Larry Pletcher

Indiana

[1936 D2]

Larry: Your method of attaching photos to posts works but relies on an external link (storage space) that could go down or not be available when someone is reading this post in the future. Here is how you can put the photos right here on the Forum...

- Some instructions for putting "Thumbnail" style photo attachments on your posts. It is really pretty easy! You just have to be in the "Advanced" posting mode to be able to see the right icons. And you have to have the photos previously saved in a correct size (more on that later) on your computer in a place that makes sense to you so you can find any particular shot later.

1) Click on either the "New Reply" button to the left or the "Go Advanced" button below. (If this is a new thread you are starting, be sure to give it a "Title:" that identifies the subject of your thread and the year of your car.)

2) On the top row of your reply "Message:" box you will see a paper clip icon. Click on it or on the “Attach Files - Manage Attachments" button down in the Additional Options section below.

3) The "Manage Attachments" window will appear.

4) Click on the "Browse" button for that window.

5) A browse dialog will appear. Browse to the location of the file on your computer.

6) Click on the file twice to select it

7) From the "Manage Attachments" window click on "Upload" button.

8) Slide down a bit in this window and confirm all the attachments were successful.

9) Close the "Manage Attachments" window.

10) Click the "Preview Post" button to see what the message will look like.

11) Submit your reply when your message text construction is complete.

One thing to keep in mind when preparing your photos before attaching, is to make sure they are under 2MB in size each and that their dimensions are not over 2000 pixels in both vertical and horizontal directions. That will mean the max resolution

for a photo will probably be from 150 ppi to not over 300 ppi.

Hope all this helps!

How to Add Photos to AACA Posts.pdf

[billstewart]

Hi Larry, all the model a and ts catalogs carry the 600w oil , A oil change on my 24 db really quieted the tranmission down, Bill

[Guest Larry Pletcher]

Thought I'd try to follow your image directions. IN the photo 25 DB, 26 model T, 24 McCormick Deering engine, and Molly the wonder dog.

Regards,

Larry Pletcher

Indiana

[R.White]

You have a fine collection of cars there, Larry. you must be very proud of them.

Molly, a lovely golden retriever. We have two yellow labs called Tallis and Marmaduke.

Ray.

[Guest Larry Pletcher]

Hi Larry, all the model a and ts catalogs carry the 600w oil , A oil change on my 24 db really quieted the tranmission down, Bill

I think you have the answer. I spent some time listening to advice at the local NAPA store and think that the best bet is to use 600w. I'm used to dealing with Snyders for Model T and A stuff. That way I don't have to worry. The issue the NAPA guys brought up is whether the 85-140w would foam or not.

Thanks to all of you who have helped.

Regards,

Larry Pletcher

Indiana

[Guest Larry Pletcher]

You have a fine collection of cars there, Larry. you must be very proud of them.

Molly, a lovely golden retriever. We have two yellow labs called Tallis and Marmaduke.

Ray.

Hi Ray,

The cars are a lot of fun. I wish I could say that I restored them all, but my father-in-law did them back in the 1970s. As his health bothered him, I helped to maintain them. When he passed away, our goal was to keep all three of them. Now the cars are teaching me all the things that I didn't ask my father-in-law when he was alive.

Molly loves to ride as I bet your labs do as well. The Model T seems to be her car. I am afraid to get her claws on the upholstery of the DB and the Model A.

Best Regards,

Larry Pletcher

Indiana

[1936 D2]

Thought I'd try to follow your image directions. IN the photo 25 DB, 26 model T, 24 McCormick Deering engine, and Molly the wonder dog....

The image you posted went very well. What ever you did, continue to do it the same way. You managed to get the image posted with 3888 x 2592 pixels! Amazingly large. Extremely clear. Nice shot!