Denman Tire Co. Closure ?

[Guest Silverghost]

I had heard that the Denman Tire Co. has shut down tire operations and has been, or will be liquidated ?

Is this in fact true ?

I had read last Summer that Coker had placed a bid in US Court to buy molds, machines, and possibly the Denman brand name>

Did Coker win this bid ?

Some had once stated that Denman was one of only two USA Antique & Classic tire builders that made large size tires for 1930 and earlier Antique & Classic autos ?

Was this true ?

Denman was also said to have built Antique & Classic auto and truck tires under many other brand's names ie: Lester etc?.

Was this also true?

I am now in need of six tires each in sizes 650-700 20 inch and 21 inch for my Classic Rolls~Royce Springfield Silver Ghost (21 inch) and Phantom I (20 inch)

Each of the wheels are #6 Buffalo Wire Wheel Corp of America with outer lock-rings.

Will I be able to obtain tires for these two applications now today?

Do radial tires work well on large heavy Classics with lock-ring #6 Buffalo Wire wheels.

The old tires now on each car are older bias ply Denman 10 ply blackwalls .

How will the closure of the 80+ year old Denman tire factory operations effect our pre 1940 and older Antiques and Classics?

Will we now be out of luck obtaining specific tire sizes in non radial type bias tires ?

Who else builds non-radial bias ply tires in large diameter Antique,& Classic Auto and Truck Sizes ?

Will anyone be putting the Denman and various other tire name brands and sizes they may have built back into production ?

This tire and inner-tube situation is a real problem~

First we all had to deal with the cheaply made foreign (Polish, Mexican, Chinese ) tubes all spltting and blowing-out after only a few hunderd miles and within one year or less~~~

This has been a real serious safety issue on auto tours~

Now the Denman Antique & Classic Auto & Truck tire plant closure & liquidation !

What's the future hold for our ability to obtain new antique tires ?

Never in my 55+ years in this hobby have tires and especially defective tubes been such a problematic issue !

These various speciality antique & classic tire builders and suppliers have always done a great service to our hobby up to the last few years ~~~

What will the future hold for us on this tire & inner-tube issue ?

What are your thoughts and opinions ?

What are the REAL facts here ?

Edited December 4, 2010 by Silverghost (see edit history)

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

Denman filed for Chapter 7 Liquidation Bankruptcy last March. In the following May its assets were sold.

"Titan Tire Corp., a subsidiary of Titan International Inc. of Quincy, Ill., acquired Denman's patents, drawings, molds, recipes and other intellectual property for $4.4 million during an auction held in U.S. Bankruptcy Court. The sale essentially ensures that the Denman plant and another warehouse the company owns in Austintown won't reopen, leaving 230 idled workers with no hope of returning to their jobs."

Denman Tire's Assets Sold for $4.4M

There is no indication on the Titan web site they have gone into production of any of the classic tire products that Denman provided. However given only a few months have passed they may not have had time to move equipment and setup production.

Jim

Edited December 4, 2010 by Jim_Edwards (see edit history)

[W_Higgins]

Never in my 55+ years in this hobby have tires and especially defective tubes been such a problematic issue !

That's pretty remarkable considering that just last month you said on the ACD Forum:

I am 55 y/o. & also a Classic, & Brass-Era collector.

I can't say I've ever seen a fetus walking around Hershey.

[Guest Silverghost]

Jim: I saw online that Corkey Coker had bid #250 K for Denman at the court ordered auction~

It would appear that Coker's bid was not close at all ~

Walter: For your official record~~~~~ I was literally carried around Hershey before I was six months old ! Was born in April 1955 !

Heshey is in OCT !

Walter: Do the math ! ;- )

Hershey was small in those early days.

The entire fall meet event was contained inside the old Hershey stadium; Flea markert, show and all !

There were very few flea market vendors back then ~

My late almost 92 year old Father attended the very first Hershey meet ever heald !

He said there were only a half dozen or so parts vendors at the very first fall meet !

He had been involved with Antique cars since he was a teenager! He was born in 1917 ! These cars were almost NEW back then !

He had owned about 40 Brass-Era & Full Classics during his long lifetime !

I have been around Antique & Classic cars literally my ENTIRE life ! Before I was one year old !

Now slightly over 55 years !

Also my great uncle William "Wild Bill" Hunter at one time once owned 4 model "J" Duesenbergs in the 1930s .

Check with Chris Summers the ACD Club historian or their Club Forum website if you doubt this true fact also !

There is an entire running forum thread about My great uncle William Hunter and his Duesenberg Model "J" s on their Forum.

You and others who are doubters may wish to~~~

Check it out !

These are the facts !

You need not doubt or challenge them !

Can YOU, or very many others here say the same thing ???

Edited December 4, 2010 by Silverghost (see edit history)

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

Brad I suspect that the Coker bid might have been only for the part of Denmans business that was catering to the vintage car market. I cannot imagine that Coker would have wanted their OFF Road Products, which obviously Titan did.

I would suspect we will not see Titan in the business of supplying tires to the vintage car market, but I can see how they might at sometime recoup part of their investment in acquiring the Denman assets by selling off the vintage car molds and production equipment to Coker. Assuming they can do so without also giving Coker an avenue into the off road market.

Real world is, there are products that are being produced in support of our hobby that will begin to rapidly dissappear simply because the market for many of those products is no longer profitable due to the lack of volume and distribution. That is already becoming a problem for the not so vintage vehicles of the '80s and '90s and we can only anticipate things will get worse. This is why it is incumbant on any vintage car owner to maintain their own supply of those things that commonly fail and might be somewhat unique to their car(s).

Jim

[W_Higgins]

Walter: For your official record~~~~~ I was literally carried around Hershey before I was six months old ! Was born in April 1955 !

Heshey is in OCT !

Walter: Do the math ! ;- )

Check with Chris Summers the ACD Club historian or their Club Forum website if you doubt this true fact also!

I can now see the error in my assumption. Those infant and toddler years constitute real experience, not to mention all the vicarious experience gained from your predecessors achievements. I will now move this record from my file of false facts to my file of "true facts". Thank you for clearing-up so much for me.

[Guest Silverghost]

Jim: As a kid I remember my Dad ordering Allstate tires for his Brass-era cars directly from the Sears & Roebuck"s Catalog~

There were two entire pages of Antique tires listed !

Anyone else remember this ?

At one time very early on in the 1950s that was your only real ready supply of NEW vintage Antique & Classic tires !

That or scrounging for old or NOS tires !

There were no reproducton tires for our hobby yet !

Dad also remembered that some early AACA guy found old Firestone molds down in Central or South America~

That was a big find for the hobby then !

I wonder what Sears Roebuck, or their Supplers, ever did with the old Allstate molds and tooling ?

Antique car tires from the Sears catalog~

When was the last time anyone could order them directly from Sears?

Allstate tires still pop-up on old museum cars from time to time today !

And in Ralph Stein's & other's great old Anique Car books from the 50s-60s

.

Walter:

You might be surprised how much REAL antique car info a toddler can really pick-up at a very early age! A young child's mind is like a sponge ~

Dad and his entire family were always, hunting for, and working on ealy autos~~~

And I was always under foot ~

One day, at a vey early age Dad told me that I started to take the tools right out of his hands~

He knew I was hooked on Antique Autos then too from a very early age !

I was born into this hobby~

It is in my blood !

Edited December 4, 2010 by Silverghost (see edit history)

[W_Higgins]

Walter:

You might be surprised how much REAL antique car info a toddler can really pick-up at a very early age! A young child's mind is like a sponge ~

Dad and his entire family were always, hunting for, and working on ealy autos~~~

And I was always under foot ~

One day, at a vey early age Dad told me that I started to take the tools right out of his hands~

He knew I was hooked on Antique Autos then too from a very early age !

I was born into this hobby~

It is in my blood !

No doubt environment affects outcome, I just don't count the period before one has motor skills or is able to speak the language as qualifying as experience.

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

Brad I don't recall exactly what year the Allstate tire brand disappeared but I believe it was in the late 1960s. Sears totally divested themselves of anything and everything "Allstate" in 1995.

As for the old Allstate tire molds for pre WWII type tires I suspect they probably hit the scrap metal heap once Sears dropped the tire types. Obviously no one could have used them without modification to remove the Allstate name. The only real market for that era of tires after 1950 something was in South America.

Unfortunately like Allstate Tires, products cease to be made because of lack of sufficient market for profitable manuacture and distribution. The main hazard for the vintage car hobby!

Jim

[NTX5467]

I highly suspect that Sears' Allstate tires were produced by another company rather than doing it themselves. Remember that when Studebaker Larks were raced at Bonneville (even setting some records), they had Sears (as a sponsor) Allstate tires on them? That was in the early 1960s. I suspect that when Sears started carrying Michelin X's, that was the end of their Allstate brand of tires as Sears started using "Sears Guardsman" (plus other names for particular levels of tires) rather than just "Allstate" after that.

At least that's how I remember it.

Y'all are worrying about 1940s and earlier tires . . . not unlike what those with the (formerly very common) 8.55x14/H78-14 tires of the middle 1960s and earlier 1970s are now experiencing. Sure, they're in repro, but they also used to be available in "normal" brands . . . now when you can get them, typically, it's a Korean brand (which has sharper casting/mold edges than anything the USA brands ever had, by observation) in a radial whitewall.

As time progresses, the formerly-common 15" tire sizes, even, are disappearing from the USA tire brands product listings! At least the Korean brands are seeming to fill that gap. IF this trend continues, almost every USA full-size vehicle of the 1960s and 1970s will either have to purchase repro tires or Korean-brand radial tires just to keep these cars on the road! (And many thought motor oil, lack of R-12 freon, or unleaded gas might be the death of those cars!). Mid-60s+ Chevy Impalas, Ford Galaxies, Plymouth Furys, Pontiac Bonnevilles, Olds Delta 88s, Buick LeSabres that all came with 14" wheels as standard equipment from the factory and some which had 15" wheels, too.

Be that as it may . . .

NTX5467

[Guest Bob Call]

Sears Allstate Tires

I worked at Sears in the late 50's and their tires were made by Armstrong Tire and Rubber. Remember Armstrong Rhino grips the road? Back then Sears branded products were made by well known companies like RCA, Emerson Electric, etc. When they ended their association with Armstrong and went with Michelin they went to Guardsman as the Sears brand name of tire.

[Guest stude8]

This subject came up in thread 214747 in September:

JUST GREAT! I checked Google and you are right, Denman went under in Jan, 2010 and assetts were bought at bankruptcy court by Titan Tire Co. in July.

I had held off buying a 5th Denman 6:00x20 for my spare for a while until the car was road worthy. Now I guess my Wards Riverside De Luxe Highway Special 6.00 - 20 from around 1950 will be my spare by default.

Hate to hear another USA name brand is down the drain, also hate to hear the 267 employees in the Leavittsburg, Ohio plant are in unemployment line. Denman was founded in 1919.

*I was lucky to call Coker immediately that day and obtained the last Denman 600-20 they had on hand for my spare. They had no knowedge if that or any other sizes would be reproduced again at that time.

Stude8

[Guest Silverghost]

The other real question here is~~~

What other private label old antique tire brands did Denman also produce ?

What about Lester, Firestone, Goodyear, Lucas, Kelsey, & Universal & Coker propriatary brands and sizes etc ???~~~

Did Denman build some these vintage tires for the above brands ?

Who else makes these sorts of tires in the USA ?

Is there another old vintage tire factory out there ?

We may now need to buy French, English, and other European vintage brands at very high costs !

Someone must save those old Denman molds and machine tooling !

When this equipment is scrapped~~~

That's the REAL END !

It would be very costly to replace~

And possibly never will be made again~

Along with the Sears & Roebuck Allstate brand of Antique car tires I also remember the Montgomery Wards brands of vintage sizes also~~~

Edited December 5, 2010 by Silverghost (see edit history)

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

Don't go into panic or the sky is falling mode just yet Brad. There are others producing tires for our toys other than the orientals. Actually I'm not sure I would necessarily condemn any tire because of where it was manufactured. Even the considered by many crappy made in tires on my lawn tractor have survived nearly ten years of hard use (my lawn is roughly 3 acres). Yeah they've suffered punctures from running over thorny vines, Mesquite tree thorns, and prickly pear but they're still getting the job done. And don't forget today the Firestone tires one might buy may actually be produced by Firestone owner Bridgestone of Japan. One of the best sets of tires I've ever had were made by Toyo, on the other hand the worst set of tires I ever had were made by Armstrong. Those suckers didn't even make 500 miles before all four threw belts! Curiously, Titan, who bought Denman, also bought Armstrong from Parelli.

Jim

[steve Price]

I purchased a 1959 vw beetle  factory original  denman tires that are suppose to be original   im trying to find out what the tire numbers on them mean as far as a date code,Steve