1925 Dodge stops after 5 sec

[Guest Marshy]

Hi Everyone,

I'm new to this site and hoping someone out there can help me. I restored a 1925 Dodge tourer a couple of years ago, total engine rebuild as original and have had it running well. Last outing it died on me, restarted after a quick inspection, died again. It was dying first about every 2 mins, then reduced to about 5 secs where it is now.

I have ample fuel to the carby, the float is good, air intake clear, spark as per timing light is going as the engine dies. Vacuum good, plugs cleaned. It seems to run very rich. Will restart after about 1 minute, then dies after the 5 seconds.

I have completely stripped the carby numerous times, can't fault it. Tried all choke settings, no difference. Totally frustrated as everything works, but it won't work! All indicates a fuel blockage, but there isn't one. I even gravity fed the carby from a can above the engine.

Can anyone offer me assistance, I'm totally baffled with no-one to ask for help. Thankyou

Marshy

[Guest Silverghost]

Very strange indeed !

The fuel & ignition systems on your car are very simple...

It can only be caused by two things~

(1)

You are possibly running out of fuel in the carby ...

OR...

(2)

Your ignition system is failing.

If you are sure it's not the fuel system ...

It MUST be a simple problem with the ignition system !

Ignition Coil heating-up & shorting out or opening-up

Contact Ponts bad or not adjusted properly.

Hot Ignition Battery wire circuit has some issue Poor earth ground.

Ignition switch etc..

Good Luck

&

Keep us posted !

[Guest Marshy]

Hi there

Good to get feedback so soon.

The ign is magneto, I put a timing light on it, and it still strobes as the engine dies, so in my books, isn't a ign problem.

I honestly can't see where the fuel problem is, as mentioned fuel is going to the carby, there is fuel in the bowl, the float works. However just doesn't continue to run, and when does, really is rich. If I lean it more, the needle on the fuel mixture lifts the weighty bell up off it's seat. Maybe it needs to be like that, just don't know, but wouldn't start like that. I have used Aerostart on it, and even if spraying that in when it's going, it will still die.

I like challenges, however it has gone past that now.

Any more suggestions?

Marshy

[Guest De Soto Frank]

Blockage in the exhaust system ?

Put a vacuum gauge on the intake and monitor the vacuum; if it starts-out good, then rapidly falls- off as the engine runs, then dies, that suggests the there is restriction / blockage in the muffler / exhaust system.

Or have a helper hold a hand over the tail pipe and see if you're getting good strong exhaust pressure...

Small critters have been known to nest in exhaust systems, and their nests could block things up...

[Guest Marshy]

Thanks for that suggestion, sure blows black smoke out, but haven't related it stopping before the engine indicating blockage. I had a very bad mouse problem, they were even eating the padding out of seats etc. Baits everywhere, and I thought that shed was mouse proof.

I will give it a try what you suggest and let you know the results. I had the carby off again yesterday and still couldn't fault it. I did up an older carby and put that on, it was leaking to blazes, however finally started the engine, and with full throttle, clouds of smoke and just going, so I stopped it. Anyway, it didn't fix it.

Thanks for the suggestion

Mike

[carbking]

If you have the original vacuum tank in service; try disconnecting the vacuum supply line from the intake to the tank and plugging it. Than gravity feed to the carburetor.

Jon.

[Guest De Soto Frank]

Marshy,

"Clouds of Black Smoke" ? That sounds like a sure case of over-fueling...

Would suggest following Carbking's suggestion about disconnecting the vacuum supply from the vacuum tank on the firewall, capping the line, and letting the engine run off the gravity feed... if it clears-out and runs properly ( until it drains the gravity reservoir), the issue is in the vacuum tank.

[Guest Marshy]

Hi all,

Really appreciating the feedback with suggestions.

I disconnected the exhaust pipe at the manifold, and apart from needing ear protection, no change in engine stopping.

I have it on gravity feed to the carby, and no change again.

I checked the timing, and it's pretty close, doesn't run long enough to get a good look, however static check is OK.

Because it won't run for other than very short period, can't check it running out of petrol to see if that changes the richness of the carby.

I'm still hoping for that "magic" suggestion that puts it right. It's so frustrating when all is OK, but it just doesn't run.

I'm about to lower the float in the carby to see if that changes anything.

Because I have fiddled and stripped the carby numerous times I would appreciate suggestions where the needle is when all is static. With the choke fully in, does the needle push the "bell" up off the seat, or where is it set, just below when the "bell" is seated? I have tried numerous settings, and apart from needing very rich mixture to get it started, once started, still smokes like blazes regardless of choke setting.

Once again, welcoming all feedback

Michael

[Guest Marshy]

Hi again,

I want to mention that all was going well, the car was out on a run when it developed this problem, so it is something that has happened whilst on the run, not after storage or overhaul.

[Guest cben09]

Going back to gravity feed only isn't enough of a test,,Comment #6,,,DISCONNECT the line from the manifold to vacuum tank,,, If the float in vacuum tank has sunk it will open the line straight from the manifold to the gas tank [ passing through vacuum tank]] That pipe can pass many times more gas than the main jet,,,If this test proves,,,Lift top off tank and shake the 3" float and see if it is full of gas,,Poke hole w/icepic,,drain,,,solder hole,,put in boiling water,,find the trouble leak,,making bubbles in the water,,re-solder trouble leak,,Not to worry too much on the top gasket,,nice if its tight,,Probably work o-k if itssorta' tight,,haha,,not a fussy precision thingie,,,OH yes,,,there are small springs in there that break,,,years ago we used the springs from a LINE-O TYPE print machine in the newspaper shop,,,hardware store has a good assortment around here now,,oh yes the printer,,used hot lead,,hoho,,[[[just disconnect the line at the vac tank and insert a twig from handy bush,,,a thread fitting not needed,,]]] Hope all this makes sense,, Oh one more,,,, To get the pin at bottom of 3" float back in that lill hole,, [pain],,,, hold cap w/left hand,,put 2 fingers from rt hand on float top and "steer it" in to that hole,,, Try a few practice shots,an' youll get itt every time,,easy,, Let me know if this is helpful,,,Cheers,,,Ben

[Guest cben09]

The 3" float should not be sensitive to a small [large lump] of solder,,I once cut a side out w/pocket knife,,and filled it with cork,,and ran for a year,,I was 13 yo back then,,my first running car 1948,,,,Ben

[Friartuck]

Marshy said that this happened during a run, so what happened and what broke to suddenly goof up a running engine??

Could be head or manifold gasket is broke or leaking. Suggest taking a cylinder compression test looking for adjacent cylinder leakage (head gasket problem) and do individual cylinder leak down tests. May I also suggest running it on propane or ether? A regular propane tank and regulator with a rubber hose (whip) into the intake. If it continues to run then intake vacuum is acceptable & the carb needs further examination. If not, then other items as mentioned. Could it have jumped timing where the cam (valve timing) is out for one or more cylinders?

[Guest cben09]

Head gasket failure would cause power loss but not stall ,,no manifold gasket here,,and the carb flange is not likely to leak,,The cam drive is gear,,so if out of time it would be on all cylinders,,power loss,,but not rich as reported,, Those Stewart carbs were pretty bullett proof,,Let us know what you find relative to the vac tank,,Sounds more like vac tank than carb float,,Cheers,,Ben

[Friartuck]

With the intake manifold integral with the cylinders (block), why couldn't a crack or leaky head gasket provide pressure effectively eliminating any intake vaccuum. Thought Marshy said he has this set up on gravity feed.

[Guest cben09]

IF the line from carb flange to vacuum tank is still connected,,,,,IT could suck right back to the main tank to get a mouthful,,thus indicating the tank float has sunk OR the spring are broken,,,,,Question #2 IS the gravity feed a separate tank,,,or the vacuum tank,,and is the carb/v-tank line still connected???,,,Ben

[Guest Marshy]

Hi all,

Last night late when about to go to bed, logged in and read about the vacuum tank not switching the vacuum off, and sucking raw petrol.

It was too late to try this, so thinking it over during the night, it ticked all the boxes, so first off this am, tried it, and, IT WORKED!!!!!!!!

[Guest Marshy]

Back again...pressed the wrong button and sent the message before finishing...

I just overlooked the part about disconnecting the vacuum line, tunnel vision of fuel supply from only one place, ie, carby float..

A few of you, firstly Carbyking mentioned that. If I had focused on that more, wouldn't have battled so much.

I have been on this problem for months now, on and off, and got totally demoralised with it as I just had to plod on my own until joining this forum.

I really appreciate the help out there. Thanks

I am also into Ford T's, have a good bit of knowledge there, so now on line, willing to assist if able in that area, also, now, Dodges!

I still have to restore the exhaust system (using earmuffs) and know now where the mixture needle needs to be so will set that with the choke lever, and then work on the vacuum tank repairs. Sure was a sneaky one, eh?

again, many thanks everyone

[Guest Marshy]

Hi there,

Re the vacuum tank not shutting off the vacuum line and the rich vapour bypassing the carby direct into the manifold.

I stripped the vacuum tank expecting the float to have liquid in it, however it was in excellent condition. When I was draining the tank there was a "clunk" inside as though something had hung up and dropped.

On inspection, there wasn't anything that I could fault, everything operated smoothly, so thought it was just one of those things that can happen. Definitely couldn't fault it, the valves opened and closed with the float being lifted up and down. Sucked on the vacuum line and it closed, as did the air inlet. The air inlet was a complete seal, the vacuum was a pretty good seal, but with lots of suction, could just get a bit of air through, very little, pretty sure that wasn't the problem.

All back together and it started and ran well, adjusted the mixture OK and it goes well. Had it running in the shed for about 1/4 hr no worries. Took it outside and revved it up, still good. Took it up the road (I'm in the country) slight uphill, and all well, then after about 2 miles, failed on me. Disconnected the vacuum line, plugged it and headed home. Half way I re-connected the vacuum to prime the tank again, then home. Tried banging the side of the tank to see if that would fix it. No.

Took the top off the tank again, nothing I could fault, petrol part way up the top tank, so with the float in there, would have been about right.

It certainly is tied up with the vacuum valve not closing and sucking vapour from this tank, and is intermittent.

I had the engine running fast and monitored the fuel filter, could see the petrol getting pumped up, then stopping, and starting again when needed.

Seems to be only when driving along the road, as it hasn't failed when stationary, ie at home (always would happen away, eh?).

So at least I know the area of the fault, just haven't fixed it.

Will stick with it, let you know the outcome, also still welcome any suggestions.

Thanks for the help to date,

Mike

[Guest cben09]

Some tanks have a 1/4" pipe plug simply drilled in the top cover to prime the tank,,I recall puting a wire down to push the float down to test things,,,will also tell you if the float is up or down,,,and w/a finger over the hole,,,,,weather it is sucking or not,,,,,I would be suspicious that that over center toggle valve is sticking,,,ARE the 2 springs same tension,,,,THEY should match,,if not they may bind,,,Glad you're on the trail,,It is really a simple device,,and usually easy to troubleshoot,,I am suprised you still have trouble,,,Keep us posted,,and good luck,,,Ben

[Guest cben09]

p/s,,,See if there is goo on the flapper valve ,at bottom of top tank,,sometimes old gas gets goo on em,,and are small problem,,Be careful they are brittle,,wipe carefully w/ solvent,,, IF THERE are small CHUNKS of rust cumming through the gas line,,,they sometimes hang up also,,,,Ben

[rsb]

Sucked on the vacuum line and it closed, as did the air inlet. The air inlet was a complete seal, the vacuum was a pretty good seal, but with lots of suction, could just get a bit of air through, very little, pretty sure that wasn't the problem.

With a minor leak and continuous suction over a period of minutes, you could overflow the tank. Maybe time to do a good cleaning on those valve assemblies.

Best,

Ron

[Guest Marshy]

Hi all,

Long delay in getting back, big backlog of essential work, not including my old cars though.

I think I have finally found the fault on the engine cutting out after about 5 seconds running.

I had it going well in Oct when I was getting very good suggestions from this site, it would run maybe 15 minutes on the driveway, however would fail between 500m and 2km from home. Could always get home by disconnecting the vacuum line from the tank and jamming a twig in the pipe, running on the fuel in the vacuum tank.

Every time I pulled the top off the vacuum tank, there was nothing wrong. However a few days back I just was fortunate that when I took the top off, the brass seat for the vacuum needle valve had slipped out of it's housing and jammed. Seems every time before, it had slid back in, hence not finding anything wrong on the bench. I couldn't pull it apart, everything rivetted in place, so managed to get some sealing stuff around it, tapped it back, cleaned it all, did a bit of centre-punch stuff on the edge to tighten it, and it ran in the shed for 15 mins, then did a half hr drive without a fail! I have had it going again, not on the road, and it seems to be going well. I think it's fixed, just was that valve seat sliding in and out.

Will post on this link in a week or so after having the car on the road again to let you know if still all ok.

Really appreciate the assistance given.

Mike

[Larry Schramm]

The valve seat coming out of the top of the Stewart Warner tank is a somewhat known problem with age. Tom Black told me of that a number of years ago. I believe he said he restaked the brass seat back into the cover.

[Guest longman]

This was a great topic, very informative. I like it when the original poster keeps it up to date and posts the solution. Photos would have been great as I run a vacuum system and would like to know exactly what to look for if it ever happens to me!