Sound deadener/Insulation

[Guest ahhh65riv]

So I will be laying the new sound deadener and insulation in my 65 Riv shortly. I know I don't want to go back in with the asphalt/tar or whatever that old stuff was... Modern "foil" type insulations seems tedious. I've just about convinced myself to use the ceramic spray-in Lizard Skin. Lizardskin Ceramic Insulation and Sound Control Spray-on Formula

Does anybody have experience with this product?

More specifically that I would like to get others opinions on is:

Will it repace the need for the fiberboard in my headliner? [it seems to me it would.]

Can I use it to replace the firewall insulation pad between the heater core, A/C box etc? Could there be any benifit for both? [i'm thinking I can eliminate the pad all together]

Should I be concerned about needing a foil lining to protect against absorbtion of condensation? This is my biggest concern from trying this stuff, and I don't think I'll get a fair unbiased answer from a salesmen.

Any concerns about spraying it inside the door panels?

Basically I want to use it on the whole inside...

Erik

[CTX-SLPR]

I used FatMat on the insides of my doors, the rear seat and quarter area after I pulled the windows out and am planning the inner fenders and rest of the floor and firewall after I fix the rust. It's really easy to use if you have a good wooden roller instead of the cheapy plastic one it came with and take the time to line it up well and cut it neatly. It makes a big difference on interior sound levels just with the amount I've used and new weather stripping.

[Guest Lowrider70]

I used FatMat on the insides of my doors, the rear seat and quarter area after I pulled the windows out and am planning the inner fenders and rest of the floor and firewall after I fix the rust. It's really easy to use if you have a good wooden roller instead of the cheapy plastic one it came with and take the time to line it up well and cut it neatly. It makes a big difference on interior sound levels just with the amount I've used and new weather stripping.

Where did you get your FatMat from? And would it be a similar material to and more or less do the same job as this truck bedliner stuff??

[RivNut]

Fat Mat is a sheet material that has an adhesive side to it. I would think the spray on or roll on materials would be much easier to lay on compound curves and get in to all the nooks and crannies.

Hey guys, your wife's pastry rollers make great tools for laying things like Fat Mat and other things that need to be pressed down firmly. The roll out tool that I saw on the Fat Mat web site looks like my wall paper seam roller - not a heavy duty tool.

I've talked with guys who have used the Herculiner material and they like it because it seals the metal from the environment. The thing I like about the Lizard Skin is the ability to sand it smooth and paint it.

Ed

[Guest Gee_Rydes]

Hey! That is my countertop underneath that Herculiner in that picture. HA!

I think Lizard skin may be primarily aimed at insulating properties whereas Herculiner may be more focused on toughness, weatherproofing, seam sealing, and yet would still have good insulating properties. It may not be on the same level as Lizard Skin since insulating is their primary concern, but I really don't know as both companies think their stuff is great.

I have 3 gallons of Herc going on my car here really soon. Inside and outside. I'll still be using some sort of lay in "stock" type insulation as well. They say a 1 gallon kit should be able to do a complete 6 foot truck on all 5 main surfaces, so I figure 3 times that should be more than enough for my job.

Between this and the POR15 on the frame, I should be able to drive this damned thing due west to Japan and not worry about corrosion issues.

[Guest Lowrider70]

The only sound deadening/insulating stuff I used on one occasion before was Dynamat... I'm sure you've all heard of it. It's a very soft and flexible material, ideal for covering curved, uneven or awkward surfaces. I once installed a sound system (on a previous car) and I used Dynamat to insulate the areas surrounding the speakers. This kept the audio sound nice and tight and within the car's interior, instead of rattling through the car's body. The only awkward places I had to cover, were surfaces in the cavity area between the inner quarters and the outer fenders... this is where I had to cut and shape several pieces of Dynamat.

But how does Dynamat compare to other applications such as FatMat and Herculiner? Are they as pliable and able to line awkward surfaces and tight areas??

[Guest Lowrider70]

Hey! That is my countertop underneath that Herculiner in that picture. HA!

I think Lizard skin may be primarily aimed at insulating properties whereas Herculiner may be more focused on toughness, weatherproofing, seam sealing, and yet would still have good insulating properties. It may not be on the same level as Lizard Skin since insulating is their primary concern, but I really don't know as both companies think their stuff is great.

I have 3 gallons of Herc going on my car here really soon. Inside and outside. I'll still be using some sort of lay in "stock" type insulation as well. They say a 1 gallon kit should be able to do a complete 6 foot truck on all 5 main surfaces, so I figure 3 times that should be more than enough for my job.

Between this and the POR15 on the frame, I should be able to drive this damned thing due west to Japan and not worry about corrosion issues.

You're talking in Gallons? Oh, so Herculiner also comes in a spray on liquid format, as well as the carpet-like, roll on application?? If this is the case, then wouldn't it be a good idea to use the spray on variant for places like the car underside and tight/awkward cavities? And maybe, the roll on variant for more easier and straight forward areas... such as large, flat surfaces? Interesting to know what people prefer to use, for the various surfaces in and around their vehicles.

[Guest Gee_Rydes]

Ned, The "roll on" language is describing the product being applied with a paint roller, not rolled out like carpet.

Herculiner is an all liquid deal. I am using it to coat and seal, and will follow up with more of a mat type material in areas requiring it.

Yeah...3 gallons

[CTX-SLPR]

Where did you get your FatMat from? And would it be a similar material to and more or less do the same job as this truck bedliner stuff??

My FatMat is from eBay and is basically a cheaper equivilent to Dynomat. I had no trouble getting it to conform to compound curve with a rubber mallet and some small tools like a screw driver handle for tight places. The tool they give you to roll it out with is junk. I went out and bought a wooden roller wallpaper seam tool (good catch RivNut). The other thing I used was what my dad and I call Hardcase ducttape, which is the aluminum backed stuff that you actually do use on HVAC ductwork, for seams as it works better than trying to overlap the matting. As with any of these products, clean the fool out of the area you're going to be applying it to or it won't stay put. I've got no complaints at all about it.

[Guest DLT]

Another option for everyone to consider

EZ Cool Automotive Insulation heat barrier and noise reduction for cars, trucks, classic cars, street rods and much more

This is a foam sandwich sheet with mylar like exterior. It has no sticky to it needs adhesive spray to hold in place until the carpet goes over. Simple, inexpensive and effective. You can double or triple if you like for added protection from heat or noise. I was happy with the result.

[Guest ahhh65riv]

Back to one of my original questions: Did you guys forgo the firewall insulation pad in leu of your insulation of choice?

Erik

[RivNut]

Eric,

I know this doesn't answer your question but there's another option you might consider. On page 18 in the OPGI catalog there is an ABS molded firewall panel that is already insulated. It might be worth taking a look at it.

Ed

[Guest ahhh65riv]

Thanks Ed. This is the panel I was talking about possibly eliminating.

[RivNut]

Back to your original question. I would say that as long as you're replacing it with either a mat or roll on/spray on liquid that would provide the same heat and sound deadening qualities, I wouldn't worry about the original. I most definately would want some source of insulation on the firewall though.

Ed

[alex bonino]

This thread was an interesting read. Based on my reseach, it's true that the new, high tech material available today is claimed to have superior sound deadening properties. I wound up going with the Fat Mat as the first layer also, which appears to be, as someone else mentioned, a lower cost alternative to Dynomat.

What's interesting to me is the obvious care the GM chassis engineers took in sound deadening way back in the early to mid 60's. I recently removed interiors on both my Riviera & Toronado, and looked closely instead of just pitching them. I was amazed at the layers: 1) the nasty tar paper, 2) some sort of aluminum backed fiberglass insulation,probably for heat 3) jute attached to the carpet and, finally 4) the carpet

Afterall, these were pricy personal luxury cars, and they wanted the cabins quiet!

After all the work I will have done in restoring both cars, one of THE most important things I want to count on is a nice, quite, smooth, silent, rattle free ride with the windows up. So, along with the FatMat, I plan on adding a few layers..... just havent decided what materials.

[Guest Gee_Rydes]

I am 10 hours in on undercoating removal. Probably have another 10-15. Some comes off rather easily, some is still adhered pretty well.

This is one of those moments where you start to rationalize about cutting a corner, but if after I sell this car a piece of undercoating flakes off, that would not be good for the buyer nor me.

It is pretty cool to see the underside of the body shell and know it is good. Especially in those corners behind the wheel wells. Undercoating can cover a lot of past sins.

3 gallons of Herculiner awaits. I though this would be a one day job. HA!

Edited March 27, 2010 by Gee_Rydes (see edit history)