1927 Studebaker Dictator EU wheel question????

[Guest imported_brian j]

Hi. Brian here. I am working on removing the front and rear disc wheels on my 27' Dictator. I've removed the wheel felloes(rim), and wheel covers easily enough. When i removed the front right rim the bolts/nuts that attach it to the hub removed easily enough.They were 7/8". Pulling the cotter pins and removing the right front hub went well. That's where things are starting to go downhill. I went to the left front, and discovered not only were the nut heads different size(13/16"),the nuts have been thoroughly "staked"against the bolt. So i removed the cotter pin and castellated nut on that side and slid the wheel/hub off the spindle. I next discovered the rear wheel nuts are "staked", and to top it off they are peened out on the end of the bolt with a chisel strike across the end. I removed the rear wheel cotter pins and castellated nuts, but the rims/hubs did not readily slide off the spindle. I'm a little confused as to why the staking the nuts/bolts? It is as if whomever put them on was planning that they could never be removed. Are they "correct"? None of the staked ones have lock washers. The one wheel with the 7/8 bolt had lock washers, and was not staked.How are the rear wheels supposed to be removed from the axle spindle? do i need a puller for this? I havent tried to get agressive in removing them as i'm not sure. Lastly if the wheel bolts/nuts are incorrect are they available from vendors, or should i hunt down used ones? Thanks much. I'm including pics of the "staked" wheel nuts/bolts

[Guest stude8]

Brian

Your disc wheels have similarities to the wood spoke equivalent types Studebaker used at this time period. The metal disc wheel was permanently bolted to the hub and the method to remove them is to pull the front hubs off the spoindles like you did.

The rear hubs are quite different, they are bolted snugly to the axle taper end and do require a special hub puller tool.

The tool threads onto the hub using the same threads the hub cap uses. Then a center bolt is tightened against the axle end followed by striking the center bolt with a sledge hammer to shock the bond between the hub and axle taper into releasing its hold on the hub.

This is all in a perfect world that no longer exists! At this age the axle to hub taper bond is severly tight and doesn't easily break. I have been struggling with my 1928 Commander rear drums for quite some time with no luck. I have found several hub pullers on Ebay but none are the type Studebaker illustrates in their service manual, the correct tool is not simply a thread on cup but rather one with a split side wall that has a pinch bolt affair to clamp the tool to the hub threads to provide the grip needed to pull with the required force to break the taper bond.

I am now negotiating having a new special tool fabricated to apply the force needed to pull my rear hubs. *See the repro tool image I attached, this requires an experienced machinist's services.

Attached are images showing the factory rear hub tool, what the correct tool should look like and what my wood wheel rear hub looks like for reference.

Stude8

[Guest imported_brian j]

Hi. Brian here again. Thanks very much for the much needed info. I suspected this was the case that the rims are bolted to the hubs such as my manual states is the case for wood wheels. My manual states that the bolt ends be peened after installation, and to remove them you must file the peening away, and replace with new bolts. Oddly enough i've had an experience with the same kind of hub pulling device in a vintage road grader. Only it required a 50 ton puller hydraulic puller to break it free. There was also an attachment to reverse the process and put a 10 ton press on the wheel to replace it on the taperd axle. I would assume that is the case with these wheels only much less pressure need be applied. I see the original puller was cast and then threads machined,and pinch bolt installed. The pinch bolt is essential as the threads would strip on the wheel if it were not tightened securely. I see the picture of the modern replacement puller is made of brass, and does not have a pinch device. I would cut a slot in it passing entirely through one side of the ring. Then i would have a machinist drill a hole that passes through the ring at the slot area. Bosses would have to be machined at each drilled end to accomodate bolt head/nut/washers. Voila ,a pinch bolt.I like the idea of using a high grade of brass, so the puller would strip before the hub would,should pressures become unbearable. I Have a machinist friend and i will go to work on my own version of a puller and let you know how it turns out. Again thanks much for the info.This is very helpful. Regards,Brian

[Guest stude8]

Brian, if you are going to consider making a tool I have a CAD drawing of what I propose to get made for my requirement. I don't know how to attach a .doc file here so if you email me at studeracer_37@yahoo.com I'll forward it that way. It is only about 32K in size and you could amend dimensions to adapt to your need. Stude8

[rbk]

Would it not be simpler to borrow one from one of the many people

that read this forum.

I have an extensive inventory of old Studebaker tools.

I will check if I have this one.

Bob Kapteyn

[rbk]

John and Brian

I spend some time today going through my hub pullers.

I have 10 of them like the picture in this post.

Different sizes. It looks like you have to take the pinch bolt out and

open it up some with a wedge for it to thread on.

I think I may need a thread file to clean up the threads.

I also have some hubs but they are different sizes.

Some are 2.44 outside dimension on the thread

and the other one is 2.74 on the outside.

Both are 16 threads per inch.

Which one do you need.

[rbk]

I found one that I thought would be able to make fit and I send it to John

(STUDE8) and he says it is 1/16" to small.

Back to searching for one.

I have a total of 10 of these with different sizes.

I gave some to a friend a long time ago and I will check with him

to see if there is a 2 3/4 " one is in that bunch.

I have a large number of tools from 28 Studebaker dealers that I bought out as a retirement project. 38.000 Sq/ft building full of Stude parts.

If I live , as intended , to the ripe age of 120 I will have sorted and inventoried these.

Bob

[Guest stude8]

Bob

The hub cap that fits on the hub we are trying to pull measures 2.680 across the tops of the threads on its ID. The tool you sent measures <span style="color: #FF0000"><span style="font-weight: bold">2.565 </span></span>on its ID so it is .115 (Almost 1/8th inch too small). I tried some force to spread the compression gap but there is probably only about .025 or .030 of spread maximum available.

So when measuring the other tools we need at least <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">2.680</span></span> on the ID to be in the ball park.

John

[Guest stude8]

I am posting this message to all who have helped or contributed ideas to help remove the rear brake drum hubs on my 1928 Studebaker Commander Big 6 Victoria. Most of you know I have been trying unsuccessfully for about 6 months (off and on) to remove the rear hubs which were literally frozen to the taper axle ends.

After many tool setups from old 1920's types off EBay to custom puller setups that proved to be under rated for the power required including one that led to an accident that badly injured a finger on my right hand I finally made a setup the WORKED SUCCESSFULLY TODAY!

Attached are photos that show the tools that did the job, two custom made pieces and the heavy duty Craftsman 46641 3 arm puller that got the left rear hub off with the help of Acetylene torch heat and a 12 LB sledge to strike the puller shaft. The force required was astonishing but these tools did the job.

The "GBHubPullertools2Q" is the 2-3/4"x16 thread puller that grips the threaded hub OD ( eternal thanks to Bill Wallace for providing this guy ) and then the 12" square 1/4" thick steel plate with a 3-1/4" clearance hole to go over the hub end behind the "2Q" tool that has three 1/2-20 bolts on a 7" circle 120 degrees apart to attach the 46641 tool arms (My design made in a local welding shop).

After assembled as shown in "Setup" photo and tightened to maximum load, heat from the Acetylene torch to the hub and a few solid whacks with the sledge it gave a resounding "BOOM" when it let go.

John

[dictator27]

Fantastic Stude8! I hope the other one comes off as easily now that you have the tools to do it. I think that deserves a celebratory beer.

Terry

[Guest stude8]

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It's official, both rear wood spoke wheel hubs are off the 1928 Commander as of yesterday. The new tools were strained to the limit but did the job.

I repositioned the car to attach the new hub tools for pulling the right rear wood wheel hub. It didn't give up as easily as the left rear but with a 2nd dose of heat from the Acetylene torch and at least 20 or 25 strikes with the 12LB sledge it let loose with a loud boom.

I can't believe how much energy it takes to break that taper axle bond after 60 years!

Like the guy in Canada said it takes a healthy TWO FOOT SWING to break the bond, you just pray you don't miss the target and take out some wood spokes with a wild swing.

*Actually the 12x12 steel adapter plate protects against that happening, not planned but it provides good protection against a miss with the sledge.

Stude8

[Dick Kemper]

I GOTTA TRY THIS ON MY 32 ROCKNE. FOUND A PULLER AS ILLUSTRATED AT A LOCAL RENTAL STORE. 20 BUCKS FOR THE DAY, AND A BIG HAMMER, WILL GIVE IT A GO!!!

DICK

[Guest stude8]

Hey Dick, Good luck with the Rockne wheel.

I did get a private email from a friend who said he would loan me his

16 LB sledge.....Just a thought,

I still wonder how nothing was damaged from that hard a hit over and over. I do believe the Acetylene torch heat was a major contributing factor.

Stude8

[Guest 25erduplex]

Wow! Stude8, I recently acquired a 25 Stude ER and was wondering how to get the rear wheels off as the the brakes don't work. Does the wheel need to be removed to fix the the brakes?

How much did your equpiment cost to do the job? Thanks, John

[Guest stude8]

I believe your ER std 6 uses external contracting band rear brakes, the car I am working on is the Big 6 Commander with internal expanding 3 shoe per drum Bendix brakes. In my case it is imperative to get the rear drums off the axles to get access to the internal shoes and action linkage parts for service.

You may not need to remove your drums to disassemble the band brakes but it would be easier with them off.

The tools I had made ran less than $200 depending how busy your local shops are and how experienced they are in this type of machining.

A friend sent me the name of a fellow in Nebraska? or Oklahoma? who specializes in hub puller tool reproductions (A Chickasha vender), I can't find the email address at the moment but will hunt for it and post it here. Stude8

[Guest stude8]

The hub puller tool maker from NE is as follows:

George McMurtry from Bayard, Ne.

1605 West 16th Street 69334

303-586-1930

gmcmurtry@embarqmail.com

I did not use McMurtry's services, a friend produced the tool I had made.

Stude8

[Guest 25erduplex]

Thanks for the info, I will have to get in the right frame of mind to tackle taking off the rear wheels considering they will probably be as stuck on as yours were. I am now working on rewiring the car which doesn't seem to be too bad.

John T.