1928 six window cranks

[Guest 40-41 connies]

Could you tell me which one of the window crank designs is the original type used on the 1928 six sedan 4 door.

Thanks

[Earl B.]

The one on the right, I'm pretty sure...B

[Guest 1928Packard526]

49-41 connies —

My '28 Packard 526 still has the original window crank handles and they match the one on the right. They are nickel plated, as are the escutcheons.

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Pete P

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Yes, the one on right, which appears to have been chrome plated.

Sorry, but the plating was originally German-Silver, which is an alloy of Nickel, Zink and Copper.

No one does German-silver plating in the USA anymore (since WW2) but they still do in Europe.

The alloy, in bars, is available here tho, if you wish to do your own plating or can talk someone into doing it.

[Restorer32]

I would be very interested in knowing how you can electroplate using an alloy. Wouldn't the different elements seperate? My understanding is that German Silver was used as the base metal under silver plating and is still used today in musical instruments. Any chemists onboard?

[Guest imported_Speedster]

No, it doesn't separate, since the metal elements are in the plating-bar in the correct mix, therefore in solution in the correct mix, and are tranfered to plated item at same rate for all elements.

Most metal Interior parts were German-silver plated before WW2 and some Exterior parts were before 1929.

At that time it was much less expenive than doing chrome and looks more like real silver.

But does not tarnish like real silver.

[Restorer32]

Then I don't understand why it wouldn't be available in the US today? No more hazardous than nickle, zinc or copper plating. German silver bars are available so why can't a chrome plater offer this service? All of my reading specifies German silver as a base metal under silver plating for such uses as tablewear, musical instruments etc. I can find no online reference to German Silver Plating. Odd.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

The main reasons are that Chromium became more readily available at a lower cost, and it's more durable.

G-S is slightly softer than chrome and can be worn thin.

And of course anything with the German name was hated after WW2, and would not Sell well.

Some of us antique car restorters are the only ones that ever request G-S, so why would plating shops want to set a separate plating vat that is very seldom used anymore.

I can assure you, they Were plated with German-siler alloy.

[Restorer32]

Do you have a reference for your assurance that they were German Silver plated?

[Guest imported_Speedster]

I got My Info from two local plating shop owners.

One of which said he would do G-S plating of small items such as door handles.

But I went ahead and had them chrome plated since the G-S plating setup cost would have been too expensive.

The other guy got actual '29 Packard plating Specs but wouldn't even consider doing them in G-S.

BTW- '29 was the first year for chrome Grille-shell,

before that I think they were all G-S plated also.

[Tom M]

How an you all tell the difference between German-silver plated and Chrome?

[Restorer32]

So you're saying no nickle plating was used on Packards pre '29?

[Owen_Dyneto]

The door and window crank hardware on my very original 34 Packard Eight appears to be German Silver plated. It's very easy to distinguish from chrome, it has much less lustre, looks more like pewter than chromium.

[Restorer32]

different than tarnished nickle plating?

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Yes, G-S has a White-ish look (due to Zink content), pure Nickel is slightly Gray, and Chrome is much more reflective than the other two.

Yes, little or no Chrome or pure Nickel was used before '29. All German-silver.

And still using it for interior parts until early '40s.

Another big advantage of G-S is that it could be plated directly to steel or pot-metal,

no need for copper and nickel layers, like with chrome.

Since it has high copper and nickel content already.

If you put the 3 next to each other you can really tell the difference.

[Guest 40-41 connies]

Thank you for the informaion on the correct cranks.

Regarding plating, it, like everything else is getting too high in cost for a common sense restore.

Pete

[Guest bkazmer]

the color tone of each metal is different. Cr has a blue cast, Ni yellowish-grayish, Zn white, Cd yellow-green. A good plater will know if the applied voltage, bath temp or chelating agent has to change - we had an expert visiting a while ago.

[Restorer32]

The 1927 Kissel we just finished calls for Nickle Plated grill shell and trim in the factory specifications brochure.

[Guest 1928Packard526]

Rick L. —

The grill shell, headlamps, outside door handles, hood latches, battery box cover, and tail lamp assembly on my 526 are all bright nickel plated and as far as I can tell original. I am missing the bumper face bar pieces that I assume were also originally nickel plated. When well polished bright nickel plate is indistinguishable from a well polished piece of G-S. I know this to be the case as I finally had to fabricate my cowl band from G-S flat stock after failing to locate an original or even a workable substitute.

I intend to fabricate the missing bumper face bars from G-S flat stock as a less expensive route when compared to plating a piece of steel or any other flat pieces for that application.

G-S because of its high copper content is easily worked and annealed when work hardened. It polishes easily and stays bright. Here is a photo of the cowl band project before the lamps were sent out for plating. It is the cost of plating that makes fabrication from G-S attractive where possible.

The window cranks and escutcheons on pur car do have a different "finish" for lack of a better word than the bright nickel exterior pieces. They have a softer look and are a bit more yellow in color. The could in fact be G-S plated rather than nickel but my local plater tells me he can match it in a nickel plate. I have one handle with a frozen knob I wish to replace.

Pete P.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

The cowl light looks like German-silver plating to me,

as all those parts should be on the '28.

(Has the white cast of Zink in the alloy)

The lower cowl trim piece appears to be Nickle plated tho.

Can't tell about the top trim piece but it kinda looks like G-S.

It's hard to tell for sure, with pictures, since lighting can make them look different.

Some platers don't want to even talk about G-S,

since they are not set to do it,

and some don't even Know about it,

since they stopped doing it before they were born.

To me G-S and pure-Nickel look a lot different,

polished or unpolished,

but there's nothing wrong with having Nickle plating,

since G-S is no longer available.

Unless you want to send the parts to Italy, France or UK.

Nickel looks Good and is Durable.

[Guest 40-41 connies]

Do you have any names of platers in the Dallas Texas area that will do the nickle plating.

Thanks

[Guest 1928Packard526]

Rick L. —

Just so we are completely clear on just what my photo shows. The band across the hood and the vertical below the cowl lamp are fabrications from solid, (.040"), G-S flat stock. The cowl lamp which was installed for the picture and as a trial fitting is as it came from a swap meet 40 years ago, when I found the pair. It is aluminum paint over a disintegrating plating finish. The corner of the battery box and the top of the hood latch visible at the bottom of the photo are in original finish as far as I can tell. You can judge for yourself how different they look, but I can tell you that the band pieces and the shell and headlamps look identical when held together.

The Owner's Manual for the car refers to all the exterior bright work as nickel plated, not as G-S plating. The recommended care for these parts was a periodic rubbing with an oily cloth to keep them bright without polishing! Curious.

Attached is a scan from that manual on the subject that I hope is readable. The full manual is on the Packardinfo thread.

Pete P.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 40-41 connies</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you have any names of platers in the Dallas Texas area that will do the nickle plating.

Thanks </div></div>

I think the best one is 'Quality Bumper Service'.

1155 S. Haskell

214-824-7300

Talk to Joe.

They will do most any type parts, not just bumpers.

[Guest 1928Packard526]

Rick L.,

I have the greatest respect for your almost encyclopedic knowledge of old cars and Packards in particular, but I have never run into a reference to G-S plating for Packards or any other car. In the vein of "Asking questions being a good thing, ...", can you point me to such a reference? I think a G-S plate would be big improvement over nickel plate, since it does not tarnish. I would like to take advantage of that difference. I have lacquered some interior parts to my car to prevent the problem, but that wears off and is not a good solution for outside items that are exposed to the elements.

Pete P.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

As I said, my Info is from 2 'so called' plating Experts, the copy a Packard Plating Spec showing German-silver, and what I've seen agrees with them.

Another thing one told me about, that confuses some people, is that after WW2 they started calling German-silver 'Nickel-silver' (same alloy, different name).

Just another thing Hitler Screwed-Up!

And not all makers had exactly the same alloy Percentages, over the years.

[Restorer32]

That's my point also. I have never seen a reference anywhere to German Silver Plating. I have seen many many references to solid GS objects being silver plated. We did a '17 Pierce which used solid GS for many trim items. I would like to see some written evidence before I tell anyone that any Packard parts were ever German Silver Plated. There is plenty of evidence that Packard parts were Nickle plated before the advent of Chrome to protect the nickle. Some folks do not understand that EVERY item with chrome plating is first Nickle plated. Chrome is a microscopically thin clear coat. Nickle provides the color. Even a search online turns up NO references to German Silver Plating but plenty of references to German Silver as a base metal under silver plating. I remain unconvinced.

[Guest 1928Packard526]

Rick L. —

I am a even more confused now. Why does the Owner's Manual and the references to brightwork in the 6 cylinder parts book all refer to nickel plate? If the company was using a G-S alloy to plate those parts I would think using the G-S plate would have been a selling point not one to be glossed over by calling it nickel plate. G-S is more tarnish resistant than bright nickel from what I can tell, and that would seem to be a sales plus. Packard was certainly not bashful about touting the silver plated interior handles in their Owner's Manual.

I have to wonder about the spec you cite. Is it a true Packard document or someone's idea of a Packard spec, and is it a universal plating spec or one covering a very special purpose application?

You are correct in that Packard and many others followed Oldsmobiles's lead in '29 in converting their exterior brightwork to a chrome plating. Nickel plate had been the most common exterior finish until then, after polished brass lost favor.

My '29 Lincoln, a Judkins coupe, straddles the fence a bit. The radiator shell, headlights, tailights, bumpers and hood hardware are all chrome plated while much of the plated material under the hood and in the interior is done in nickel. The running board trim is nickel plated rather than chrome as well.'29 was truly a watershed year for the brightwork.

Pete P.