34PackardRoadsta Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 Dear All,I need to remove the steering wheel from the 733, but I have no clue as to how this is going to happen. The service manual helpfully suggests that I <span style="color: #3333FF">"remove the steering wheel"</span>. There are no obvious screws, bolts, pins, rivets, or other fastner type objects that could be undone to aid in removal. The picture in the parts list book I have is not large enough/clear enough to be of much help. So, has anyone here ever removed the steering wheel from either a 7th or 8th series car? Any heard rumors on how to remove it? As always, Thanks Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted October 2, 2008 Share Posted October 2, 2008 There are screws that go thru back side of wheel-hub, into the outside aluminum ring (around horn & switch-plate). The horn-button-plate needs to be removed first, by pushing in on the plate (to release) and turning counter-clockwise about 1/4 turn (there's a spring behind it). Then the switch-levers need to be removed (by removing small screws) so wheel won't hit them. Then the wheel can be removed, by gentle prizing between hub and wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Tom,Careful. I have been there and tried and tried to pull mine but I never did so I left it on fix my mistakes and painted it while still attached to column.Here is a thread Ken started when he was in the process of removing his. Steering Wheel Removal Hopefully yours will come off without the aid of a 500lb gorilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 There are small guide-pins made into wheel, that go into holes cast into hub ring, that can get rusty and cause it to stick. The pins hold most of the turning shear force of the wheel so they fit very tightly and are made of steel, which will rust.If some of the screws, thru hub, break off, the wheel can still be removed. Just makes it a little more difficult. The broken screws can then be removed from outer ring and replaced at reassembly. This usually happens.If you need to remove the hub from column also, that's very difficult (and a potential of damage), but I will try to explain the procedure if you need it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34PackardRoadsta Posted October 3, 2008 Author Share Posted October 3, 2008 Really what I am trying to do is remove the steering gear box for cleaning and inspection, and the first step to do this in the shop manual is to remove the steering wheel. Rick, in the service manual is pictured a 6th series steering mechanism, and it looks very different from the 7th series mechanism in the parts book. Is what you are describing for the 7th series, or for your 6th series car?I have tried to press down on the hub cover and turn either direction, but it doesn't seem to want to turn, or press down, really.Tom, thanks for the link to that thread. Hoo boy, looks like I could be in for some serious fun. By the way, did you ever get your steering wheel off?Thanks tons,Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 My experience is with 6th series but the 7th Must be very similar. As long as the internal spring is completely compressed the button-plate's locking tabs, at top and bottom, should release. (this is the bakelite-plate behind horn-button, Not the outer hub-cover aluminum ring) It's a very strong coil-spring so you have to push very hard, to push it in far enough, before turning to left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 TomI have a 1930 wheel and column in my basement. I'll take a look tonight and see if I can add any help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 The 500lb Gorilla must have Good Dexterity Also. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 Tom,I must say that I would NOT remove the steering colomn and gearbox unless Absolutly necessary!Those must be the Most difficult parts on those cars to work on with the most delicate parts that can be broken easily. (such as light-switch & wires, throttle-gears linkage, horn-button contacts & wire, switch-levers & shafts, button-plate tabs, etc.) All those and more are easily broken or damaged.And some of those parts can be difficult to replace. 'If it ain't broke don't fix it'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34PackardRoadsta Posted October 4, 2008 Author Share Posted October 4, 2008 Rick,Thanks for the advice. I am having to replace the wiring harness. Don't I have to disassemble the steering to do that? Also, the steering gear box needs a very very very thorough cleaning. The lubricant that is in there has the consistency of compacted Mississippi river mud, but less slippery.I will try a 250lb Gorilla. If it takes a 500 pounder, I may have to go without horn or lights!Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted October 4, 2008 Share Posted October 4, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 34PackardRoadsta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am having to replace the wiring harness. Don't I have to disassemble the steering to do that? </div></div>No, the only wire inside the steering-column is the one to horn-button. If that wire is Not broken off, at lower end, then you definitely don't want to replace it. It's very difficult to replace. Most of the under-hood wiring-harness wires connect to light-switch at bottom end of column (including horn-button wire) and harness can be fed by steering-box without completely removing it.Also, the steering-box can be rotated, in place, to dump old oil, I think. By removing large mounting bolts and loosening clamp under dash, you can probably rotate it enough to dump oil. I've never tried that tho. If that works, you can then put in some kerosine or acetone, then dump that, to clean it. Of course you will need to remove light-switch and throttle-linkage to try that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl B. Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 Tom, your gearbox sounds like mine. I used a small stick to scrape it out of the box. When I'd gotten out all I could, I started washing it out with gas and kerosene mix. I have been wracking my brains (not much there to wrack) how I got the wheel off, and I really think I used a 3-legged wheel/gear puller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 Tom,Never got it off. So I fixed my damages primed and painted. Column is still laying across frame waiting to be reinstalled once I get the body work, dash and what not restored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34PackardRoadsta Posted October 5, 2008 Author Share Posted October 5, 2008 Dear All,Thanks for the help with this. I am going to stop trying to remove the wheel and just clean things to the best of my ability.Cheers,Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 34PackardRoadsta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am going to stop trying to remove the wheel</div></div>There ya Go!'If it ain't broke don't fix it'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted October 5, 2008 Share Posted October 5, 2008 I was comparing your pic of the '30 horn-button to the '29 and there are differences. The button is smaller on '29 and the button-backplate appears to be recessed more on '30 than '29s. The backplate is made of bakelite on '29, appears to be metal on '30. Is that correct? So now I'm curious, mabe on '30 the button unscrews (and comes off first) and then it may have a nut or screws behind the button, that holds backplate on ???Here's pic of '29 wheel: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 TomI just looked at the one in my basement. I can't offer any help, either... yet.RickI believe the wheel is identical. It's all the stuff in the middle that's different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbirdman Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 om,I believe you are being misguided by an approach that doesn't apply to a 7 series car. Looking at the parts manual, a 30s wheel is very close to a 32 wheel. A good place to start is to look at the steering wheel removal post post of mine that Tom (Packin31)originally reposted earlier in the thread.To remove the steering wheel you need to first get the center cap piece and the switch rods etc out from the center of the steering post. This is all one unit. That is why all the pressing on the steering wheel center will not budge that cap. It is connected to the light rods which are bolted in at the base of the steering column. Removal is accomplished by removing the multi-terminal switch at the bottom of the steering box. Also you need to unloosen the bolt that is holding the center section at the bottom of the steering box. Once you get it unloosened, the center piece should pull out with the light switches etc still attached. This is an easy task if you have a convertible with the top down, more difficult with a coupe because of clearance with the roof.You then should see a big nut holding the steering wheel on the column. That should come off easy but the wheel is still press fit on the steering colmn shaft. Then I would advise soaking the center of the steering wheel in something like liquid wrench for a few days. Then rock the steering wheel with your hands back and forth to try to brake it loose from the column. You may want to put the retaining nut back on in case the wheel breaks loose suddenly and smacks you in the face.According to the parts manual there are screws that hold the wheel on. This all looks complicated but once you start taking off the light switch at the bottom of the column, it becomes clearer. Also try to look at the parts manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34PackardRoadsta Posted October 6, 2008 Author Share Posted October 6, 2008 Ken,Thank you for the input! I do think, from looking at the parts manual, that the thirty is different from the 29. My parts manual is a reproduction, so the diagram is a little hard to read, and certainly doesn't make clear what you are talking about. I will explore this when I get back out to garage.West, do Ken's comments make sense when looking at your column?Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbirdman Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Tom,I gave you my cell phone by PM. It's probably easier to explain verbally. The key thing to realize is: The center cap of the steering wheel is connected to a rod that goes down inside the steering column to the base of the steering box. Inside this rod are the control rods for the two switch arms on the the steering wheel and the wire for the horn button. It's not clear, but when you move the switches they are connected to long rods that end up at the base of the steering box. On my 32 one gets inserteded into a multi termal switch which controls the lights. The other rod connects to a gear which controls the throttle. Both of these rods fit inside a larger rod which I believe is fasten by a bolt at the base of the steering box. I'm calling these rod, but they are more like hollow tubes. Once you get these tubes free at the steering box end, all of that stuff will pull out leaving you with a steering wheel that is pressed on the steering column shaft.Once you get to this point, you still have to deal with a steering wheel that may be stubborn to remove. But let's get you to this point first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Now that Ken mentions this, I do recall seeing that type of assembly in the museum parts department, sans wheel and column. So yes, this makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Everyone seems to be ignoring my above questions but I'll try one more time. What I'm saying is that you Can get the wheel Off, without completely disassembling the colomn-tubes, light-switch, etc. if you can just get the button-backplate off, so you can remove the switch-levers (to prevent damage to them). Then removing the screws thru back of hub allows the wheel to be removed from hub. Much less work that way, (if you only need to remove steering-wheel that is, which was the original question).The button-backplate HAS to be removable Somehow! If you can't push in to release, like on '29, then there must be a nut or screws behind button? Or maybe removing the button also allows the backplate to be removed, if button screws into tube assembly?Tom (both Toms), did you try to unscrew the horn-button and see what is behind it? (The '29s unscrews by turning CCW) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbirdman Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Speedster</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Everyone seems to be ignoring my above questions but I'll try one more time. What I'm saying is that you Can get the wheel Off, without completely disassembling the colomn-tubes, light-switch, etc. if you can just get the button-backplate off, so you can remove the switch-levers (to prevent damage to them). Then removing the screws thru back of hub allows the wheel to be removed from hub. Much less work that way, (if you only need to remove steering-wheel that is, which was the original question).The button-backplate HAS to be removable Somehow! If you can't push in to release, like on '29, then there must be a nut or screws behind button? Or maybe removing the button also allows the backplate to be removed, if button screws into tube assembly?Tom (both Toms), did you try to unscrew the horn-button and see what is behind it? (The '29s unscrews by turning CCW) </div></div>OK I won't ignore any more The button/backplate as you call it (I think it is a front plate ), is fastened with bolts to the tubes that run down the center of the steering column. However the only way you can get to bolts is to raise the faceplate. The only way to raise the faceplate is to undo the tubes at the bottom of the steering column. The bolts are hidden in the recess in the center of the steering wheel.Your right the backplate has to be removable but only thru this process. I suppose you may not have remove the tubes entirely as once you raise the backplate enough, you would have access to the bolts. However I just took everything out as one unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Thanks Ken,Man, whoever changed that design didn't want to make it easy to remove wheel, did they.So, just removing (unscrewing) the horn-button first doesn't help any, to get access to bolts, correct? Or did you not try that since you wanted to remove complete assembly?As you mentioned, removing complete assembly is more difficult in Sedan (since it hits top), which Tom has.In the Sedan it's best to remove front seat also, to have enough room for droping column and pulling tubes, and less chance of damaging seat upholstry (unless it needs replacing already). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbirdman Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Removing the horn button just no access to the bolts which are on the other side of the face plate. Though if I did it again maybe, I wouldn't take the tubes all the way out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbirdman Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Here is what it looks like with the button removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Thanks, very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Speedster Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Tom, sorry about leading you astray with discribing 6th series info. I didn't realize that '30 horn-button could be that much different than '29s. Very strange that they would do such of a design change, to make it More difficult to work on, since it was already Too difficult!Maybe they were having trouble with horn-buttons being stolen or coming loose or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbirdman Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Speedster,See I have trouble with my horn button coming loose. I assembled everything together. Unfortunately you should tighten the horn button before you put everything back. If you don't that threaded post just spins as you try to tighten the horn button. However it's too much trouble to take it all apart so I just remember to twist the horn button as I drive. I actually wasn't paying much attention to the post as I thought you had it under control. You had me convinced. Though I know the 32 pretty well, I decided to check out the parts manual to see what the differences were.I'm glad I could contribute instead of asking for answers all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom M Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 Restoring cars is FUN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phils38cpe Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Packin31</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Restoring cars is FUN </div></div>And don't forget that it's educational too - It teaches you how to cuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl B. Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 "Restoring cars is fun."Now, where did I put that valium and vodka??? hahaha..B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbirdman Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Well I couldn't imagine doing a restoration without this forum. Makes everything a lot easier when you can exchange ideas and pictures in a blink of an eye...though that also makes miscommunication faster Well off to the airport and most likely a visit to Hersey on Friday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34PackardRoadsta Posted October 8, 2008 Author Share Posted October 8, 2008 Agreed. This forum has been a critical part of any progress I have made on the car, and has contributed considerably to my enjoyment of the process. Once I get together with Ken, I will post picts of the steering wheel disassembly (or lack thereof). Old cars rule, new cars drool.Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbirdman Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Tom,I'll be unreachable from about 9 AM PST to 7PM EST if you try to catch me Weds.Your right about old vs new.If that steering wheel is similiar to mine as we think, it looks harder than it really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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