Guest steakneggs Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 I used the Steakmobile to haul myself and my gear to my Monday eve gig at the nursing home (Geezerstock). I forgot my harmonica rack and returned home to retrieve it. When I drove off I experienced a severe loss of pedal. I had to switch vehicles. Today I messed with it and couldn't find any leaks and was freaking that it was in the Riv booster or m/c. But it turned out to be the length of line that runs along the rear crossmember that I never replaced. It rusted inside of the bracket under the fuel inlet hose. Horrible design because its hidden and sits in a pocket that collects moisture. Saltbelters should check area with mirror every once in a while. Steak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Drake Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 Steak, glad you made it home safe and sound. And thanks for the tip for us Rust Belt guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincent Vega Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 Glad you are safe. I just replaced the same line this past weekend. I looked at it when I had the tank out 2 weeks ago. I shrugged it off as OK. I wish I hadn't. It was rusted through in the same spot as yours. There is a line clamp/clip right under the fuel hoses. I couldn't get to it with the tank in place. I just twisted the line off. The other clamps/clips were ok. I used a length of 60" and 30" line. I spliced them together in the center. I cut about 9" of the 30" line and flared the end. Lots of kooky bends on the right side. I like bleeding the rears on these cars. So easy with the pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steakneggs Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 A section of 60" line reached on the Steakmobile for some reason. If I use those clamps I'm going to put a piece of rubber hose around the line to keep moisture out. What was troubling was my belief that I would only lose half my pedal if one curcuit failed, but it felt like I lost 80%. This particular Riv m/c has a diagonal flow design that hooks one front and one rear brake together on a curcuit. Except you can't tell by looking at the reservoir which curcuit is losing fluid. I know now that the front chamber goes to the right rear and one (?) of the front ones. Steak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest simplyconnected Posted August 20, 2008 Share Posted August 20, 2008 Glad everyone made it without any injury or loss. Just a reminder for users of DOT-3: Change your brake fluid every three or four years. It sucks up water like a sponge, and after saturation, your system WILL rust from the inside (characterized by that red tinge when you bleed your brakes). I just dis-assembled a caliper piston and found rust inside the iron casting. Good thing I caught it. - Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steakneggs Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 My son works at a shop that is somewhat anal. He tells be that when they replace pads they open the bleeder valve before pushing the piston into the caliper to prevent rusty fluid from the lines entering the m/c or ABS. Sounds kind of extreme to me but due to the cost of a replacement Teves it might be something to consider. Steak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex_houston Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 I thought opening the bleeder was the norm.I can't imagine pushing all the fluid from a completely expanded calliper into a full master cylinder. In fact I am not sure it is even possible to do so on todays cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest weewilly Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 I've never opened the bleeder, I just open the top of the resevoir, take some of the fluid out with a turkey baster and then push bake callipers with clamps, never had a problem and it saves you the possible problem of bad bleeders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest simplyconnected Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steakneggs</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My son works at a shop that is somewhat anal ...they open the bleeder valve before pushing the piston into the caliper...</div></div> How much is a cup of DOT-3? It should be the norm to bleed that saturated crap out and replace with fresh fluid, especially if you see any tinge of red. I'm serious; I won't open my reservoir on a humid or rainy day. That's how much DOT-3 sucks moisture out of the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 I never open the bleeders and I never add brake fluid as the brake pads wear so... There is not any extra fluid to suck out when you push the caliper back in while replacing the pads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest crazytrain2 Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 I will never Never NEVER again push the fluid back into the system - did I mention "never"?For the couple of minutes it takes to open the bleeder and leave the resevoir cover on, it's worth the insignificant hassle by far. I'm convinced the problems I'm having with the hydraulic system in my Teves MII system are at least in part due to my negligence in this area. Remember folks these wonderful Mark II systems need to be rebuilt in a "clean room" environment. Why run the risk of shoving some small piece of debris into the valve area of this innexpensive $1500 part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm convinced the problems I'm having with the hydraulic system in my Teves MII system are at least in part due to my negligence in this area.</div></div>I'm sure it was negligence by the people who wrote the Field Service Manual when they failed to mention the bleeder valves in their instructions for changing brake linings. They say to push the piston back in and install the pads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DTerry Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 I've had the factory service manual for darn near every car I've ever owned, and I don't remember a one that mentioned opening the bleeder when depressing the piston. They did caution you to remove some of the fluid from the master cylinder. Not that opening it wouldn't be a good idea, but it just never occurred to me and was never reccommended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEMO Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 the opening of the bleeder screew? this sounds like a way to quickly get the piston to retract,making the job go faster.so to finish ,and get on to the next customer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest simplyconnected Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 Why wouldn't you open the bleeder screw? Afraid it might break off because it sat for ten + years, rusting? If that's true, you have rust inside your system, for sure. Change your DOT3 every 2-3 years, and keep the bleeder from siezing. I use plumber's teflon tape on the bleeder threads (not the end taper), and they always unscrew easily. Guess that's not in the manuals, either. Maintain a dust cap on the bleeder screws, too."According to the Car Care Council, brake fluid in the typical vehicle can become contaminated in two years or less. This is because the fluid absorbs moisture, which works its way through the hydraulic system... Not only is the contaminated fluid vulnerable to vaporizing, it also can freeze... The Council recommends replacement every two years or 24,000 miles. It should be included with brake pad or shoe replacement, the Council emphasizes."Here's the link: http://www.businessweek.com/autos/content/jan2006/bw20060103_870782.htm ABS guys, check this out: Do I Need to Flush My Brake Fluid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEMO Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 The statement was to open the bleeder to push back the piston,so that rusty fluid would not go back into the system.The flushing of the system is EXTRA,and disposal of the old fluid is EXTRA too. Opening the bleeder,and having a hose in a loop,with the end in submerged into brake fluid would work to prevent air from entering the system. It sounded to me the the prosess was to,open bleeder ,push back piston,brake fluid spraying out running where ever it landed.The mess,thats left on the auto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest simplyconnected Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 DOT-3 is glycol-based and is NOT hazardous to dispose. (Some people spread it on their tires, eventually it evaporates.) Your entire brake system only holds a cup, so it's cheap. There's no need to make a mess. EXTRA? No parts are removed in the process, just saturated brake fluid. If you crack the bleeder anyway, as the article explains, changing fluid should be part of any brake shoe or pad replacement. Especially ABS systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEMO Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 Sign on wall at Tire Shop,had a list of fluids that they charge to dispose of,brake fluid, was on the list. if a hose is not put on the bleeder the fluid will make a mess. I have never seen it to just disappear,by saying no need to make a mess, will not stop it from happening.you have to have something to catch the fluid. a rag will not work the fluid that runs down the side of the bleeder and all over.you can just bleed away and try washing with a hose when your done.then you have it all over the ground,where you hose it off.and then track it when someone walks threw.when you have the brakes done, a fluid change is not included. it is called bleeding the system to replace old fluid, EXTRA? and EXTRA work is needed to do this all labor.the system hold more then a cup 8oz, i would guess over a quart,all 4 calipers, master cylinder,all lines,all hoses it is proubly more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steakneggs Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 Sounds like alot of these folks don't do their own mechanical work. When my Teves first went south I took it to my mechanic neighbor who had never seen a Teves and didn't have a clue why there was no boost. I'm sure that's the situation with most shops. Flushing is within the capability of most if not all people who can change their own oil. If you can get the bleeder valves open without removing the tires its a $3 one-hour job. Do it on the grass to eliminate the inevitable clean-up. Also if you break a bleeder valve off it just means that you can't flush or bleed that caliper and it can still be used until you have to replace a line or hose on that curcuit. Steak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEMO Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 Flushing or bleeding takes 2 people,only the rear calipers you can do by using a stick proped against the seat to hold the petal down,and the pump will push the fluid out.You can't open bleeders on the calipers with the wheels on there is no room between the wheel and the caliper.With drum brakes you can.This car has 4 wheel disc.To properly bleed/flush the brakes on this car,put on stands,remove all tires, then bleed/ flush as per manual.Doing this on the grass you have to use boards to keep from sinking into the ground.It takes a while to do this,pumping the fluid threw the system.Frozen bleeders are a hassel.Use heat then lube spray,with a 6 point socket and braker bar.Very gently wiggle,back and forth.When installing use never sieze.The time it will take I would say 2 hours with regular hand tools ,having floor jack/and stands/and helper.Rushing the job makes it worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steakneggs Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 I wasn't suggesting doing a crappy job. I was only trying to make it look like a fairly simple job that some shop might charge a hundred bucks for. I've opened the bleeders without removing the tires before, because I HATE REMOVING TIRES! My bleeders never get a chance to seize because of the extended procedure of converting from the Teves to a vac system I was always having to bleed something. I have a set of plastic ramps I use on the grass that don't sink in. I use them when I change oil and for stuff that doesn't require removing tires, LIKE BLEEDING BRAKES. Steak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEMO Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 I would not get under a car with plactic ramps.As for bleeding with wheels on.I would never do it.I perfer to watch the fluid in the clear hose which is tied in a loop for any bubbles.No mess, Spray fluid all over the wheels,hassel to open bleeder. When you do the job the right way the first time, there is no need to doing it over and over.This is a simple job,just do it the correct way,BY THE MANUAL INSTRUCTIONS,and its no problem needing to keep fixing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest simplyconnected Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NEMO</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> when you have the brakes done, a fluid change is not included.</div></div> Oh, yes it IS, and sometimes between brake jobs!Hey Nemo, do you have any friends? My wife often volunteers a hand or a foot when I need an extra. She's far better than a stick because she takes directions real well, AND she fries chicken!I don't take wheels off, unless I'm changing pads or shoes. I often bleed brakes with tires on the driveway or up on a curb. Sometimes, I use steel ramps. I rarely jack up the entire car. With the help of my wife's foot, all I need is a 6-pt box wrench, a clear tube, and an empty 10W-30 container. No muss, no fuss! Done in FIFTEEN MINUTES, if you're good. The wife's other parts are good for other jobs, too.A quality brake job always includes new brake fluid. Period. If your tire store monkeys can't accommodate that, bring your car to a professional brake shop where they guarantee their fine work and don't charge to dispose a cup of DOT3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEMO Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 I have never seen an ad saying they were going to FLUSH/BLEED system.They will top off the system.A quality brake job is just topping off the system. That is the quality work you get.By someone who has never worked on this system.Period. I do all the work needed, 3 car garage,with a pit.5 roll off toolboxes.I don't monkey around.There isn't a tool I can't get my hands on.Do all work in the saftey of my garage.I know better then to let unqualified person touch any of my cars,motorcycles,jet skies,surf jets,4 wheelers,bicyles,lawn mowers,leaf blowers,or a push cart. I come from a family of 8 brothers. You and your wife can pull your car up on ramps,or on the curb,or on the side of the road,in front of the house,pump all the brake fluid you want.I rather do in the garage.P.S. I do all my pluming,electrical,wood working,painting,or anything else that needs to get done properly. No,shortcuts!Being retired,I have the time to do things properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVES89 Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 You should move to Wi. I could use a neighbor like you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 WOW! He's even listed in the Wikipedia. Take a look. I have often been included in that elite group myself. It has been said that I am a perfectionist in an imperfect world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest weewilly Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Nemo, Where in New York are you. I'm from Endicott, NY and get up there every so often would love to see your shop and get some advise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEMO Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Long island,My private home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest simplyconnected Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Well,THAT nails it. Long Island stretches from Queens to Montauk, nearly 100 miles. Greetings from Royal Oak; bedroom of the Motor City, and where Canada is SOUTH of the U.S. border.Maybe Steak's suggestion pertains to you, since you are surrounded on three sides by salt water. If you can't easily see your rockers, standing in your pit, maybe one of those eight brothers will help you out, if you ask them real nice. Can they fry chicken? If I had all those brothers, I would get a three-car garage with a pit, too.Note: DOT3 will wash away Never Seize (Anti-sieze), if you use it on bleeder screws. Teflon tape works better and lasts longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest crazytrain2 Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 For the sake of grins and giggles thought I'd mention,:If you do heat up the calipers to loosen the bleeder, make sure you purge all the potentially burnt brake fluid from the caliper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest NEMO Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Long island is an island,water on 4 sides? Never seize to wash away you need to have the fluid running threw the threads,the threads are reapplied when the system is flushed/bleed.The job is only done when needed, every two years.The system works fine,properly taken care of,no monkeying around with is needed. All my brothers have garages,one has a long pit that goes from front to the rear of the auto.With a set of staires to walk down,having all the tools you need in the pit,oil draining tools,greasing tools, air supplied.Just like i have. When working on the brakes they are done properly,without having to lay on the ground.I sit on a rolling seat. Wheels off to inspect and see what is needed to replace.Teflon tape will work,but I perfer to do the job with never seize.It is called ANTI-SEIZE LUBRICANT , seems to me that is what every one calls it,and is know by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steakneggs Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 Boy! If I had the Captain's time and setup, I might be a little more anal. All this time I thought the Steakmobile had drum brakes! Steak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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