67 GS 400 Brakes - NEED HELP!!!!!!

[Shakadula]

I have a 67 GS 400 with drum brakes/Shoes in the rear. I have never changed out brakes before. Anyone got pictures and/or step by step instructions for a dummy? The Service Manual assumes I know what I'm doing.

[Guest brh]

No disrespect intended here, but if you have never done this before I am not so sure its a good idea to start with the brake system. Do you know anyone that is knowledgeable on doing brakes? Its really not that hard, but when it comes to brakes I would not want to be wrong. Just my 2 cents, did not mean any offense.

[Guest Reatta1]

It's really pretty simple, I used to do my own drum brakes all the time. First you need an adjusting tool to back the adjuster nut off to ease the space between the drum and the shoe. That is done through the slot in the shoe plate from the back side. There should be a rubber grommet in it that you will have to remove. DON"T LOSE IT cause it has to go back in when your are done with the job. I've forgotten which way is loosening but if it wont turn one way, then go the other. Then when you get the drum off take a careful look at how everything is assembled. Make a diagram if you need to. I always used a water pump pliers to remove the big springs and my fingers to remove the shoe retainer clips. You might want to acquire a spring tool and a retainer tool to make it easier. Once the drum is off and you have mapped the assembly, remove the large springs, then remove the retainers. At this point you can remove the shoes being careful not to pull the pins or boots out of the cylinder at the top. Be sure to note how the bar with the spring on one end goes into the assembly, it will have to go back the same way when you re-assemble everything. Next you will need to remove the parking brake cable from one shoe. A vise grip comes in handy here. You will need to get your drums turned before proceeding any further. When you have your turned drums and new shoes in hand you are ready to re-install everything. Before doing anything else, remove the cover from the master cylinder. Next, turn the adjuster wheel to the shortest space it will go, reassemble the brakes by placing the new shoes in position with the lower pertion of the shoe on the fulcrum at the bottom, then the upper part into the pin at the top. On the shoe that takes the parking brake cable you will have to put the cable back in place first. Be sure the bar with the spring on one end is in it's proper place. When you have both shoes in position with the retainer clips re-assembled you are ready to instal the main springs. Put them back in the same order they came off using either the spring tool or a water pump pliers. I personaly always thought the pliers was easier than the tool. When all that is done apply pressure with one hand on each shoe to force the pins in the top cylinder back as far as they will go. You are now ready to replace the drum. With the drums in place and the wheels back on you can adjust the shoes out just untill you can feel a bit of friction on the drum. When this is all done you may have to bleed the system. Good luck.

[Guest imported_kbm]

I just did drum brakes for the first time. What really helped me were lots of before closeup digital pictures. You can look at these instantly for reference when you are putting it all back together.

Kenneth

[NTX5467]

It might be possible that you'll not need to back off the adjustment to get the drums off the back brakes, but if the shoes and drums are worn into each other, then there'll be a ridge along the outer wear surface that you'll have to back off the adjustment so the drum can come off.

On the fronts, this is a good time to put new bearings and races in, if needed. Usually, after you get the outer bearing to come out, many put the adjustment nut back on the spindle and use that to hang the oil seal on and pull it loose from the drum/hub. Same thing applies regarding the possibility of the wear ridge on the inner wear surface of the drum.

You can buy several different versions of the brake spring "pliers". Getting the better quality ones can be a better investment than the less expensive ones--even if you buy them at Sears. One part gets the shoe retainer washers, one part lets you put the springs off and on, etc.

An EASY way to put things back together, especially after the drums have been refinished (HOPEFULLY, they'll be thick enough to do that!), you can get a brake shoe caliper to do the initial shoe adjustment before putting the drums back on. Basically, you set the drum side to the drum's inner wear surface diameter size, then you use the brake show side to adjust the shoes to match. In reality, the shoe diameter should be a little less than the inner drum diameter.

For good measure, you might consider getting a "hardware combi kit" so you have new springs and such rather than re-using the old ones.

DO check the wheel cylinder for any significant amount of brake fluid seepage past the cylinder pistons. In some cases, wheel cylinders are pretty inexpesive.

If the wheel cylinders are still good, then just put things back together in the reverse order of disassembly. Flushing the brake system can be a good idea, too! Plus, while you're there, checking the condition of the brake hoses!

Getting the parking brake cables interfaced can be a little tedious.

I've never done mine, but I've watched many times. Just attention to details in how everything's positioned in relation to the other parts.

DO get some quality linings and do a few gentle stops, then progressively more intense, to get the linings "bedded-in" before you do a full bore panic stop. You might want to do this several times (the break-in process), especially if you get a brake lining smell the first time. Depending upon how slick the inner drums surface was turned, this can determine how long it takes to smooooth things out in there for a consistently smooooth wear surface. As things progress, the pedal should feel better as time and use progresses.

Take your time and pay attention to the details in how things go together. It can make a rewarding weekend afternoon "diversion".

Enjoy!

NTX5467

[Guest simplyconnected]

Why is this in two different headings???

Brakes - Need help 67 Buick GS 400

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: simplyconnected</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Why is this in two different headings???

Brakes - Need help 67 Buick GS 400 </div></div>

It's a general maintenance type question. It was probably a good idea to cover as many bases as possible with the AACA forum thread as well.

[ice man]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but on the front, the smaller of the two linings goes toward the front of the car.

[Guest simplyconnected]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: simplyconnected</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The primary brake shoe is the front shoe and normally has a slightly shorter lining than the secondary shoe. The secondary shoe is the rear shoe and has the largest lining surface area. Match them with the old shoes before you remove any parts.</div></div> - quoted from the OTHER (covering-our-bases) thread.

I do most drum brake jobs with nothing more than two pairs of 420-Channelock pliers, a hammer, and a screwdriver.

[Shakadula]

Thanks all. Took pictures and followed all advice except to not do it myself. The 2nd reason for owning this car is to work on it and learn. Just trying to keep the mind sharpened.

"remove the cover from the master cylinder." key point. Had to re-read this before I could get the shoes back in place. Again, Thanks.

I replaced the wheel cyl since I didn't know how old they were. My biggest issue was the parking brake. Basically had to look at the other wheel to figure that out because it fell out of place before I could get a picture.

First wheel took forever. Second one less than an hour. Not counting bleeding the brakes.

[Guest simplyconnected]

I am very glad to hear you have success. Just a word about DOT-3 brake fluid:

In my opinion, it is still the best, as long as you follow scheduled maintenance. It is alcohol based, which means it dilutes with water. If the water concentration is high enough, your steel brake lines will rust from the inside (characterized by that red color you see, when you bleed it). It is always clear when new.

Make it a practice to change your brake fluid every three-four years. I won't open the cover if it is raining out; pick a dry day, and use fresh, sealed, DOT-3. It's cheap.

I recommend staying with DOT-3. If you decide to change to another type of brake fluid (DOT-4, DOT-5), flush the entire system thoroughly. Synthetics are not compatable with DOT-3, cost more money, cause a 'spongy' pedal feeling, etc. If you mix DOT-3 with DOT-5, it congeals in your lines and creates a real mess. (Usually, they just replace the brake lines.)

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Shakadula</div><div class="ubbcode-body">First wheel took forever. Second one less than an hour. Not counting bleeding the brakes.</div></div> I will bet, there are more drum-brake jobs in your future. Welcome to our family of restorers. BTW, you saved a lot of $, and you know for sure all that was accomplished. - Dave

[Guest norb]

My 67 GS has disc brakes on the front & they are really terrible to work on & I have done them twice.Very costly too.

[Guest John Chapman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: simplyconnected</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> It is alcohol based, which means it dilutes with water. </div></div>

Dave, I believe you'll find the DOT 3 and 4 fluids are glycol-based, as opposed to alcohol-based.

Cheers,

JMC

[Guest simplyconnected]

You're right, John. Polyethylene glycol-based to be exact, but my point is:

* Fluids such as DOT 3 are hygroscopic and will absorb water from the atmosphere.

* Water lowers the boiling point and promotes internal rusting.

Thank You for the correction.

[Shakadula]

Just a quick thanks to everyone that helped me get through this job. Now on to the front. And yes I will replace the hoses and bearings.