32 vs later generator size

[tbirdman]

I'm attempting to fit a repo air cleaner on my 32. The one that came with the car was purposely dented on the bottom to clear the cut out relay that is mounted on the generator. The repo is not clearing that cut out relay either. I've been told I may haver the incorrect gnerator as it has a red tag which is a higher out generator for later year cars like 33-34.

Does anyone know if the generator sizes are that differnet between 32 and 33/34 that would cause this fit problem.

Any other suggestions are welcomed.

[Owen_Dyneto]

The red label and following generators are slightly shorter than the earlier ones.

[tbirdman]

Looks like that wouldn't affect the fit of the air cleaner, conly if they were smaller in diameter. Thanks for the reply.

[Owen_Dyneto]

I was referring to generator length. It's possible the earlier ones were a bit smaller in diameter, I don't have one handy at the moment to measure.

[Ed Miller]

Your 1932 Packard has a updraft carburetor, 1933 and 1934 have a downdraft. The airfilter on my '33 Twelve and '34 Super Eight are far removed from the cutout. It appears you may have the wrong airfilter for your '32.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Ken,

Is this the type filter you have? It has a double-elbow tube that moves filter up and in.

This one is on a 902 and appears to be the norm for '32.

In pic it appears to be very close to regulator but I don't see any indentation in filter, when I did a blowup of it.

The adjustment of the timing-chain, with generator, would effect how close the filter and regulator are to each other, also.

Or a new timing-chain would pull the regulator in closer to filter.

[tbirdman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Speedster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ken,

Is this the type filter you have? It has a double-elbow tube that moves filter up and in.

This one is on a 902 and appears to be the norm for '32.

In pic it appears to be very close to regulator but I don't see any indentation in filter,

</div></div>

Speedster,

The original filter someone put a dent in it to make it fit. That is the filter I have. I have the original elbow that actual moves it up a little father.

[tbirdman]

My analysis is either:

1. S neck pipe is too short-but both I have have the same horozontal distance of around ~4/1/4 ".

2. Air cleaner may be too short

3. The wrong genrator may place the cut out in the wrong spot.

The easiest solution may be to just make a extender piece for the s curve to fill the ~1/2" gap.

I also will call Henry Yeska as that's who I got the repo parts from.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Do they look the same as those in picture I posted?

(mounting-brackets, regulator position, etc.)

[tbirdman]

Everything looks the same except for the length of the air cleaner. The original one I have looks lik ethe length of the photo though thatw as from the 902. The rest I have seen show the length being closerto the repo I have with the last convex trim area at the very far right of the air cleaner lines up with the end of the manifold.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

So, The Repro is Shorter and Larger diameter? Is that correct, or is it Only shorter (front to rear)?

If the Repro is the same diameter as the original, then something Else Must be different, if it is hitting the regulator? (like maybe position of regulator on gen, or the adjustment of the gen, or position and length of filter mounting brackets, etc.)

Can the regulator be rotated down anymore, to clear the filter, (is there sloted holes in regulator base)?

[tbirdman]

Looks like both are the same diameter but the repo being longer. I think I may have found a solution. The cut out is held on with two screws. The one screw fits into a slot on the bracket, while the other screw fits into a hole. By removing the screw that fit into the hole, I was able to use the adjustment on the slot to slide down the cutout about a 1/4" but that's enough so that I can squeeze in the air cleaner. Of course now I have to figure out now if I can drill a second hole in the bracket to accomodate the new bracket position. Alternatively I might be able to live with one screw hold the cutout relay.

Here's 903 picture that most I have found look like.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

You may be able to put a large diameter Washer on the screw to clamp down on the other regulator tab. (Fender-washer type)

(could bend the washer slightly to fit the curve of the gen)

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Yes, the filter on 903 appears to be smaller diameter, and the regulator is further under it, mounted on gen closer to engine.

[tbirdman]

OK with a little gentle persuasion, I was able to bend the cut out relay mounting bracket so that I have two screws holding it on. So looks like I'm past this hurdle. I suspect perhaps that the generator I have may not be the correct one causing the fit issues. Seems like if the relay was just move down a 1/2" all fit issues would vanish. That's a project for next year.

Thanks for everyone's help.

[tbirdman]

I spoke with Hnery Yeska. He has run into this problem before He offered to extend the cleaner body or make a spacer free of charge except for shipping.

So I just need to decide to keep it the way I have it or maybe have Hnery extend the air cleaner. The lip that goes around the louver part of the cleaner is the part of the air cleaner that causes the clearance to be reduced. If that cleared the intake manifold by extending the main body by 1/2" then the air cleaner fits without an issue.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Does the mounting-bracket on front end of filter have to be modified also? It seems that it would need to be made longer as well.

[tbirdman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Speedster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does the mounting-bracket on front end of filter have to be modified also? It seems that it would need to be made longer as well. </div></div>

No the only middle section would need to be lengthen which is a simple tune section. Unlike the original ones, these air cleaners do come apart. You could lengthen the end section butthat would be more difficult because of the mounting holes. I have indicated the two areas with lines pointing to them.

I have located a correct 32 generator from a standard 8 for sale. I believe the 32 Deluxe 8 and Standard 8 generator may be both the same one. Though I may have the correct generator and maybe the just the wrong red label though talking to another Packard guy, he indicated a red label was correct for 32.

Here's a picture of my current generator before I started the restoration.

[34PackardRoadsta]

Ken,

That gen looks correct to me. The 34 red-labeled gen has a band around the rear to access brushes, not the cap like yours. Can you read the model number? Owen_dyneto posted a list of the correct gens from 1926ish to the 36 on a recent discussion. If you can see the model number, you can compare it to his list. Here is the part of the list relevant to you:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: owen_dyneto</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

901-02-03-04, Gen CL 1005, OD 21732 partial control

1001-1002

1003-1004, Gen CO 1130, OD 21262 partial control

1100 thru 1105, Gen CO 1177, OD 21262 partial control

some 1100-1105,

1200-thru 1205, Gen CO 1240, OD 21262

</div></div>

Tom

[tbirdman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 34PackardRoadsta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Ken,

That gen looks correct to me. The 34 red-labeled gen has a band around the rear to access brushes, not the cap like yours. Can you read the model number? Owen_dyneto posted a list of the correct gens from 1926ish to the 36 on a recent discussion. If you can see the model number, you can compare it to his list. Here is the part of the list relevant to you:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: owen_dyneto</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

901-02-03-04, Gen CL 1005, OD 21732 partial control

1001-1002

1003-1004, Gen CO 1130, OD 21262 partial control

1100 thru 1105, Gen CO 1177, OD 21262 partial control

some 1100-1105,

1200-thru 1205, Gen CO 1240, OD 21262

</div></div>

Tom </div></div>

Mine says model # 1002 but it has a red tag. I'm still having issues fitting the air cleaner. I may have to get the air cleaner modified. It appears I also have an aftermarket cutout generator. I wonder if these are slightly taller than the originals.

[tbirdman]

I think I have figured out the problem. Looks like I have an aftermarket cut out regulator. Comparing the height to a picture of one I found on Max Merritt's web site, it is about 1/2" taller, about 2 3/4" tall vs 2 1/2" tall. Max didn't have any for a 32, but I do have an aftermarket coming from Kanters. If it is not smaller, then I guess I need to figure out a creative way to mount the regulator or cut it down to size. Looking at the previous owner shop receipt notes, it appears they installed a new cut out and bent the air cleaner to fit. However in the notes instead of saying dent, they wrote adjust.

Anyone have a 32 cut out regualor laying around?

[34PackardRoadsta]

Try Dave Soltow at Yesteryear Antique Auto Parts (941) 743-7784 or yaap2000 at hotmail dit com.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Can you just drill more holes in the regulators base, to rotate it more to toward the fender and maybe use larger washers, to cover the elongated holes, if needed.

I don't think anyone will ever notice.

Of course, we wouldn't want to do anything that YOU will notice every time you look at it and keep You awake at night. LOL

[Restorer32]

What is the correct factory cutout for a 1932 Packard 8 ?

[34PackardRoadsta]

According to Owen_Dyneto, in an earlier post, it is OD 21732. This unit combines a cut-out with partial voltage regulation via the field windings.

Tom

[Owen_Dyneto]

Pretty easy to spot the NORS cutout and regulator, the cover is held on by a nut in the top center, the originals were held on by screws on the sides. The Echlin/NAPA NORS unit is just slightly larger than the original O-D units. If you want the exact dimensional differences, let me know and I'll measure a pair and post.

[Restorer32]

If I had taken the time to scroll up I would have figured out that you already posted that info. Thanks!

[tbirdman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Owen_Dyneto</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Pretty easy to spot the NORS cutout and regulator, the cover is held on by a nut in the top center, the originals were held on by screws on the sides. The Echlin/NAPA NORS unit is just slightly larger than the original O-D units. If you want the exact dimensional differences, let me know and I'll measure a pair and post. </div></div>

If you could measure them, I would appreciate it. Thanks.

[tbirdman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Speedster</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can you just drill more holes in the regulators base, to rotate it more to toward the fender and maybe use larger washers, to cover the elongated holes, if needed.

I don't think anyone will ever notice.

Of course, we wouldn't want to do anything that YOU will notice every time you look at it and keep You awake at night. LOL </div></div>

The bracket is at it's very end of the travel. The issue with rotaing the cutout is the top screw hole is no longer under the bracket, while the other screw hole is under the cutout. I was thinking of making another bracket and mounting that on the generator and then mounting the cutout bracket to it somehow. See my crude drawing below. I was thinking of welding the screws to the new bracket.

Better ideas? I only need about a 1/4" to 3/8" of rotation

[Guest imported_Speedster]

I didn't realize it needed to be moved That Much.

That bracket design should work.

The easiest way would be to move the regulator over on (inside) the framerail, with wire extensions from the generator.

There's also the posibility of mounting the regulator on a band that goes all the way around the gen, held on by one clamping bolt (like later generators cover band). That way the regulator could be positioned anywhere you wanted it. The ends of the strap would probably need to be on top tho, where it is very visible.

So, altho functionally good, those methods would not look original.

[tbirdman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 34PackardRoadsta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Try Dave Soltow at Yesteryear Antique Auto Parts (941) 743-7784 or yaap2000 at hotmail dit com. </div></div>

Thanks Tom. I've talked with Dave and sent him a bunch of pictures as he tries to figure out what I have and if he has a solution.

[tbirdman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tbirdman</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 34PackardRoadsta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Try Dave Soltow at Yesteryear Antique Auto Parts (941) 743-7784 or yaap2000 at hotmail dit com. </div></div>

Thanks Tom. I've talked with Dave and sent him a bunch of pictures as he tries to figure out what I have and if he has a solution. </div></div>

Here's what Dave said.

"You have a replacement cutout on your generator as I had mentioned that was for later year packards (starting in '35) by Auto-Lite. I think the one you have is a copy of the Auto-Lite unit.

The Owens Dyneto unit originally on your Packard is shorter in height and a bit narrower (sq) as well. "

[Owen_Dyneto]

I've made a few measurements to compare the original Owen Dyneto unit and the NORS Napa/Echlin VR755 which you appear to have. The major difference is in height above the generator, due to 3 causes, the nut on top, a slightly higher cover, and a base bracket with more standoff from the generator body.

The overall height from the generator body to the highest point on the cover is 2 inches on the original unit, and 2-5/8 plus the thickness of the stud and nut on top for the NORS.

The original unit has cover dimensions of 2-1/8 depth x 2-1/4 width x 1-/7/8 cap height. The NORS unit is 2-2/8 x 2-3/8 x 2-1/4. The original unit has a cap height of 1-7/8 and the NORS is 2-1/4.

Also let me confirm as someone has previously pointed out that the "red tag" generator has a band-type brush cover with an air scoop on the band and an air scupper up front, the earlier generators had a "bowl" type brush cover. The forward scupper is often mounted backwards, the cool air inlet for the generator is at the brush band, and the outlet up front thru the scupper which then should face with the opening rearward, not forward.

After reading thru this thread, I'm glad I have downdraft carburetion.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Hey, with most year models with updraft carb, There's no Need to worry about the fit of the Air-filter, cause they 'Don't Have One'.

Of course, Not having a filter, is another reason to be glad you have a downdraft carb. LOL

[Guest imported_Speedster]

I once asked my Father (who was not really a car-guy) why he left the air-filter off of his '49 Chevy Pickup. (this was during the early '50s)

He said that our neighbor Mr. Williams (who was supposed to the local Ol'-Timer automotive expert) said that a little dust in the engine, would 'Keep the valve-seats Clean'.

Oh well, it was a good truck while it lasted. LOL

[tbirdman]

Thanks for the measurements. That extra 5/8" height explains the clearance issues. Mine even appears to be a little taller than yours NORS. Mine is not a solid state cut out.

[tbirdman]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Speedster</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I didn't realize it needed to be moved That Much.

That bracket design should work.

The easiest way would be to move the regulator over on (inside) the framerail, with wire extensions from the generator.

There's also the posibility of mounting the regulator on a band that goes all the way around the gen, held on by one clamping bolt (like later generators cover band). That way the regulator could be positioned anywhere you wanted it. The ends of the strap would probably need to be on top tho, where it is very visible.

So, altho functionally good, those methods would not look original. </div></div>

If I paint the bracket black and keep it thin, it should look OK. I, still waiting for the one from Kanter to come and see what it measures.

[tbirdman]

I made the bracket out of sheet metal, and the trial fit works.

From Kanter, this arrived today as a 32 cutout regulator.

[tbirdman]

I made the bracket out of sheet metal, and the trial fit works.

From Kanter, this arrived today as a 32 cutout regulator.

[Guest imported_Speedster]

Typical Mistake for Kanter.