Self Applying Brakes on '35 Super 8

[Myron Williams]

Hi Guys,

As some of you might remember, I'm trying to ressurect a 1935 Super 8 that was partially restored by a series of people who gave up on the project. Needless to say, I've run into a few snares along the way...

I got the old girl running again last night and took it for a ride. It really runs good now and I think I have all of the oil and water intermingling leaks finally taken care of. Anyway, after riding around for about ten or fifteen minutes, the car suddenly decided to come to a shuddering halt. The same thing had happened the last time I drove it(about three or four years ago), only worse and I chalked it up to the fact that it was running out of gas, which it was at the time. This time, there is plenty of gas, so that can't be it.

I can't help but suspect the vacuum assisted brakes and plan to disconnect the vacuum line and see if the same thing happens. The only other thing would be missadjusted brakes, wouldn't it?

Have any of you had this happen, or can you think of some other problem I might be overlooking?

Any help will be greatly appreciated,

Myron

[Owen_Dyneto]

I've driven a 34 Eight with the same type B-K power brake booster system and have never had a problem. It may be logical to suspect the booster system but for several reasons I doubt its the cause. For one, it only reduces the pedal effort AFTER the pedal has been initially applied and I don't believe it has enough force to apply the brakes by itself. Secondly, when these units need service it's because of a lack of boost almost always caused by a vacuum leak. But easy enough to check out, just remove and plug the vacuum supply to the booster and take it for another test drive (hopefully not on public roads).

Did it happen to occur when you were using the clutch? The pedal shaft is lubricated by the Bijur system and perhaps that has failed to lubricate the shaft and the brake pedal is moving sympathetically with the clutch?

[tbirdman]

Could it be that now that you have been driving it, the brakes are dragging for some reason though the car seems to move ok? After they overheat, they stop the car dead in its track. I have a T=Bird did that.

[Owen_Dyneto]

tbirdman, that a good thought. Personally I would think it foolish and maybe even negligent to put an old car on the road without having first pulled the drums and checked the brakes; hopefully Myron did that.

[tbirdman]

My T-Bird was a strange one. I had done the entire brake system the previous year and ran it for a full year with no issues. Some how over the winter the piston adjustment on the master cylinder got out off whack. It took me a long time to find that one because I never thought that would need re-adjusting.

In regards to "Personally I would think it foolish and maybe even negligent to put an old car on the road without having first pulled the drums and checked the brakes"...been there, done it Guilty as charged.

[Myron Williams]

Hi Guys,

I guess Owen Dyneto was right about it not being the vacuum assist. I unhooked it this afternoon and went for a very short ride and had the same problem, only worse.

I think the problem must be in the differential... I drove really slow and listened closer to what was happening and the rearend seemed to start growling more just before it shuddered to a stop.

Is it possible that whoever worked on the rear end did not adjust the pinion properly and it is riding up on the ring gear? I've never had anything act like this and am completely puzzled. I guess I'll see if I can find a good differential man around here and have him completely go through it for me.

Please keep your suggestions coming!

Myron

[Guest peter packard]

Hi Myron, I also have a 35 Super (25,000 mile original)and have read of your problem. You do not say whether the seizing condition cures itself after a few minutes, or if you have to recover the veh home. Have you checked the gearbox and diff fluid levels?. I would also suggest to drive the veh again with caution until the engine labouring/seizure starts to manifest itself. I would then immediately (safety permitting), get off the road, stop the engine and feel the brake drums, diff and gearbox for any excessive heat. This may not be practical where you live , but it is a suggestion to pinpoint the area causing the problem.. Good luck. Peter Toet

[Myron Williams]

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the suggestions. I have checked for heat buildup and know the transmission and rearend are both full. The last time I drove the car, it only went one and a half blocks before it stopped. When it does, you have to back up a foot or two to release it and then it will move again. I have contacted the only local restoration shop and he's going to come and get it when he gets caught up with the projects in line ahead of me.

I don't know, but I suspect that the pinion gear is somehow riding up on the ring gear and binding up. I'll let you guys know whenever the restoration shop gets it torn down to see what the problem is.

Thanks again,

Myron

[Guest peter packard]

Hi Myron, I sincerely doubt that the problem is in the differential as the 35 Super has no in/out mesh adjustment as does the 5th Series. If the diff is not noisy, I would be very reluctant to strip it down. I would suggest that you proceed as if you are conducting a major brake adjustment and get all four wheels off the ground. You could then run the vehicle in top gear for "a few blocks" and be able to find out whether the binding up is in the front or rear wheels. I would be very surprised if the diff is to blame. Was the oil ok when you checked it, ie was not water affected ( milky) or otherwise contaminated. I suspect one of your wheels is binding up as the act of reversing the vehicle can reset those three shoe brake arrangements. Worth checking before you touch the diff. Peter

[Owen_Dyneto]

Peter, the 35 uses the Bendix 2 shoe system, not the 3 shoe. I do agree with you about not tearing down the differential unless you have some really compelling evidence the problem is there, those differentials are over-built and internal problems with them nearly unheard of.

[rybikowsk]

maby I can help, my Packard is a 49. the problem it had the year made no diff.I bought this car from a dealer,he had bought it from a private owner who had spent a great deal of money with some crooks who did a horrible job of restoring the car.I have been a year putting things right, and I am still finding more messed up things

now to your problem. my car would seize up the rear brakes within about ten miles.they would not release for hours.when taking the brake system apart I saw mostly new parts, the rear shoes were cooked.I bought complete new parts from kanter everything.I noticed a extra hose in the kit.couldn't figure wher it went.if all else fails look in the book.the packard had a flex hose in the xpart of the frame. I pulled the hose, it was packed solid with crud it had never been changed. I could develope enough force pushing the pedal to make the rear brakes engauge. BUT there was not enough force to make them return.sorry to be so long winded, I hope this helps. mike.r

[Owen_Dyneto]

That is a good point and the third hose at the rear is often overlooked, you did a good diagnosis. However please note that the car in question has vacuum boosted mechanical brakes, NOT hydraulics.

[Guest peter packard]

You are correct, once again, Owen Dyneto, the 35 Super has two shoe brakes. Sorry, I was obviously stuck in the 5th/6th Series three shoe time warp. I still feel that it is brake not diff related. It will be interesting to find out what it is. We are, or should be, acutely aware and wary of the $100 per hour shops which have no idea of what makes a 1935 car tick properly. Peter Toet