transmission gears grinding on 4 speed 1932

[tbirdman]

Took the car out for a spin tonight. On the way home I ran into a issue that it was hard to shift into 2nd without gears grinding. Did some troubleshooting once I got home. With the car engine off, I can shift into all gears except reverse. If I start the engine, I cannot shift into 2nd or reverse without significant grinding. Also on the way home for a little bit, the clutch pedal felt strange at the bottom of it's travel.

I'm looking for some pointers where to look. Clutch adjustment?

Thanks,

Was working fine since I gotthe car over a year ago. Nothing new was done to transmission or clutch recently.

[tbirdman]

One quick not. Now I can move the gear shift level through all gears without the engine running. I was examining the clutch mechanism but did not adjust anything. Did not start the car as it is after midnight though I should do it to [censored] off the neighbors who have noisy late night poker parties on Friday nights Too many other good neighbors.

[Owen_Dyneto]

You didn't mention how much free play the clutch pedal has, but that's a good suspect. Anything more than 1 inch or so may mean the clutch is dragging even though the pedal is fully depressed. When is the last time you checked or changed the gear oil, and what type of gear oil are you using?

[tbirdman]

The gear oil was changed last August. Not sure what type was used. Today, I adjusted the clutch pedal for less travel and it's back to normal. At least I drove it around the block once. ;)I was able to get it up on my lift so tonight I have an old car guy friend to come over and make sure I did it right. I'm fine except for the cotter pin end I cut in the chin when I moved my head too quickly

Thanks for the advice.

[tbirdman]

Owen,

Can you define free play. Is thatthe point where the clutch engages. The way the clutch is adjusted now(and is working) almost immediately the clutch arm that goes into the transmission housing starts moving as soon as there is some travel on the cluth pedal. Definitely much less than a quarter of an inch.

[Owen_Dyneto]

With the clutch pedal in the "up" or engaged position, free play is the amount of movement of the pedal before the fork actually begins to actuate the fingers; in other words the movement of the pedal before any actual work is done. You might also define it as the amount of downward movement of the clutch pedal (from the at-rest position) before you feel any resistance. If you have no free play, it means the clutch pedal is fully up, has no more movement available, and yet the clutch is not fully engaged; thus the clutch plate can burn in a very short time. If you have excessive free play, it means the clutch may still be partially engaged even though you have the pedal against the toe board. Its the latter condition that can cause gear clashing when shifting; the former condition gives rise to short clutch life.

[tbirdman]

Owen,

Thanks. So I tried to adjust the clutch for free play. I was trying to adjust the clutch when the pedal caused the arm (fork) that goes into the side of the transmission started to move. I have adjusted the clutch in either direction which results in slipping or clashing. I guess my feet aren't sensitive enough to feel that change in resistance whne pushing in on the clutch maybe because of the spring tension. Is there an easy wayto adjust for proper free play? Thanks.

[Owen_Dyneto]

The way I described is the only way. Let me try it in different words. Sit on your running board, engine not running; reach in with your hand and move the clutch pedal the first several inches. If you don't feel the first part of the movement to be free before you encounter some resistance, you don't have enough free play. Or another description, the clutch has to be fully engaged BEFORE the pedal iron hits the underside of the toe board which stops its upward motion. Adjustment made via a turnbuckle type arrangement between the pedal and the fork. Hope this helps.

[tbirdman]

Owen,

OK. I think I was trying to do things by the visible movements of the mechanism under the car. The problem is that I may have a heavy enough spring that it is difficult to tell when the resistance has changed as the spring tension may overehelm any other resistance. I'll try to look at it again tonight. Thanks.

[tbirdman]

Owen,

I had some guys look at the car this Saturday at a Packard event. One of the ideas is that the fingers of the clutch needed to be adjust. The free play adjustment was fine, but the clutch was not releasing all the way.

So two questions.

1. You mentioned lubicant. Should I try to use some 600W lubricant as the next step?

2. They recommend having the clucth removed and having it readjusted. I thought I would wait until to the winter and tackle it then. I have never removed a transmission/clutch before but want to try it myself. I have a lift plus access to a transmission jack. The Packard shop manual is pretty brief on describing how to remove and reinstall the clutch/transmission. Is there another book I can acquire that has more details on how to do this project?

[Owen_Dyneto]

Something doesn't make sense here. The free play in the pedal is the only adjustment to make sure the clutch is fully disengaged when the pedal bottoms out. Assuming none of the linkage is bent or mongreled from some incorrect parts, if the free play is correct (1/2 to 3/4 inch), the clutch should be fully disengaged when the pedal hits the toe board. If you don't have clutch chatter when engaging, especially in 1st and reverse, I'd NOT recommend changing the adjustment of the fingers; those adjustments are for uniformity of release (though it's possible one of the fingers has bent or broken, that could cause your problem). If the free play is indeed OK, on what is the assumption that the clutch is dragging based? You could check for clutch drag by putting the rear wheels off the ground on jackstands, and running the engine in gear. Within a few moments of depressing the clutch to the floor, the rear wheel or wheels should stop rotating.

Regarding the gear oil, I believe Packard recommended SAE 160 in the summer and SAE 90 in the winter. Most everyone I know uses SAE 85-140 year-round. If you live in a particuilarly hot climate, you can still get SAE 160, usually in 5 gallon pails.

[Johan Boltendal]

Although I'm not familiar with Packards, it might come down to either an oiled disk or a frozen or to narrow primairy axle bearing,at the rear of the crank.You should however have the problems you name, with all gears,more or less.

Let us know what you find out. Johan