Any '63 Wildcat or Lesabre Manual Trans owners - brake question

JJorgensen52 · March 1, 2014

I'm in the process of converting my '63 Wildcat from Dynaflow to manual trans, and I'm looking at the pedal assembly:

The assembly currently has a power brake pedal installed (done by the PO of this setup), and the original brake pedal removed.

The second and third photos show the location of the pushrod pivot, relative to the top of the pedal, for power and manual respectively.

Of all the manual shift '63 owners on the board, does anyone have (or know if one exists) a car with manual transmission and power brakes? The service manual only shows a manual brake clutch pedal assembly, but the manual trans information is fairly sparse so I don't want to rule it out strictly based on that.

Thanks

March 2, 2014

The power pivot is lower because less leverage is used than with the manual. I believe you can drill the pedal, press in a lug, and weld the backside. I converted my 57 Olds to manual trans by using a 57 Buick power brake pedal for the clutch. The Olds did not have swing pedals in 57 and I had no manual donor. 15 years later I went to disc brakes which needed a firewall mounted master. The original Treadle vac was mounted directly below the pedal on an angle. I used another 57 Buick power brake pedal and built the tandem setup shown in the pics. Both footpads were narrowed. I was very careful to try to keep the factory leverage. It was complicated by my desire to keep the bulky master cylinder away from the valve cover area so the linkage reverses the output. That is the clutch pedal is on the left as usual bu under the hood the clutch cylinder is on the right. It looks like you intend manual clutch linkage which is best if you can get the factory parts. The closer to stock the better. I was able to use various diameters of DOM (drawn over mandrel) tubing to advantage and despite the complexity of my Rube Goldberg it works well.

JJorgensen52 · March 3, 2014

I must admit, that is pretty clever! And very clean, too.

I do have the complete factory clutch linkage, I have no concerns there. My original intent had been to simply graft the manual and power brake pedals together, to retain the correct pad and pivot points, and then extend the linkage to suit. This was before I had actually held the pedals in hand side by side.

I am concerned about clearance on the steering column if I attempt to use the lower pivot point on the manual pedal, which mounts closer to the driver (and thus the bend to clear the column is higher up the pedal arm). The manual specifies a 6:1 advantage in manual, vs. 2-1/2:1 in power brakes.

That said, I think at this point my approach will be to use the spare power brake pedal I have for parts, and weld it to the upper portion of the manual brake pedal, so that I have my actual pedal arm, and then a second arm which re-creates the factory location and geometry, as best I can, of the power brake pivot. That way I don't have to change boosters or modify any other part of the system, just the pedal itself.

JohnD1956 · March 3, 2014

I have no direct knowledge or experience but I wonder if there was no power brake with a stick shift, because the rod for the clutch would not bypass the booster on a power brake?

JJorgensen52 · March 3, 2014

I have no direct knowledge or experience but I wonder if there was no power brake with a stick shift, because the rod for the clutch would not bypass the booster on a power brake?

I had thought that, but the clutch linkage actually goes directly through the floor in this case and never into the engine compartment at all! It's not quite like anything I ever saw before. That said, there's no way the booster could be high enough on the firewall to have the linkage clear the column with the pedal hung where it is, unless they mounted it at a downward angle.

Edited March 3, 2014 by JJorgensen52
bad grammar! (see edit history)

March 3, 2014

Your plan to weld part of the power pedal to part of the manual pedal sounds good. Keeping all stock clutch geometry without a slave cylinder puts you way ahead. They have probably engineered a nice over-center assist into their geometry as well.You haven't mentioned your intended trans. I am curious.

Pat

JJorgensen52 · March 3, 2014

Your plan to weld part of the power pedal to part of the manual pedal sounds good. Keeping all stock clutch geometry without a slave cylinder puts you way ahead. They have probably engineered a nice over-center assist into their geometry as well.You haven't mentioned your intended trans. I am curious.
Pat

I will actually be ordering that later on today - I was originally planning to try and find a correct T10 for the car, but after reading up on the factory ratios and researching options, I've settled on this trans:

http://www.jegs.com/i/Richmond-Gear/836/7020510B/10002/-1

It's a Richmond 5 speed, which carries nearly the same ratio set as the early T10, plus an overdrive. It's rated to 500ft-lbs and it's a dimensional direct replacement for the T10. I will have to have a new front drive shaft made (the overall length of a T10 / Richmond is 27.1", vs. 24" for the dynaflow), and I will have to make a new cross member and extend shift linkage to retain console shift positioning, but it should be overall doable and requires minimal modifications to the car (no more so than a T10 would).

I guess I should probably move over to the Me and My Buick forum and start a thread for this

Edited March 3, 2014 by JJorgensen52 (see edit history)

Pete Phillips · March 4, 2014

My '63 Wildcat convertible has power brakes and four-speed manual transmission, from the factory, as far as I can tell. What do you need photos of?

Pete Phillips, BCA #7338

JJorgensen52 · March 5, 2014

My '63 Wildcat convertible has power brakes and four-speed manual transmission, from the factory, as far as I can tell. What do you need photos of?
Pete Phillips, BCA #7338

Pete,

I need a photo of what the brake pedal looks like, and where it attaches to the booster linkage - that is, where is the linkage attached relative to the pivot at the top of the pedal. At least in peering at my car, it appeared the angle to the booster would be too extreme to still clear the steering column. Is the pedal common to the clutch shaft, or on its own pivot?

Pete Phillips · March 6, 2014

Photos are not the best since I was pointing camera in the dark and did not have other light. Am very rushed right now; more time next week when I get back from final salvage trip to Wheatbelt Buick Parts before they crush cars on Monday.

Pete

JJorgensen52 · March 7, 2014

Photos are not the best since I was pointing camera in the dark and did not have other light. Am very rushed right now; more time next week when I get back from final salvage trip to Wheatbelt Buick Parts before they crush cars on Monday.
Pete

Pete,

Thank you, this shows exactly what I needed to see. I am not too terribly surprised to find that they did it this way - as I see no real other solution. The pedals are at such very different heights!

March 8, 2014

The power brake pedal can be much lower than the clutch as it does not need much travel.

This also helps you heel and toe from the gas.

Any '63 Wildcat or Lesabre Manual Trans owners - brake question

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