hchris
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Posts posted by hchris
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I think that light blue piece, that could be made of ceramic, is actually the horn relay. It says Delco-Remy on it. The coil was previously on the top of the engine, as in the original setup, but the coil heat problem was worse. When I changed to the fender, only additional 4 inches of wire were added, and the overheating coil problem reduced a lot, but it is still there...All the connections and terminals were properly welded, including battery and grounding cable, to avoid any loss.
JRA
No the light blue thing is metal, and as you correctly surmise, is the horn relay, whats got my attention is the white square thing just to the left of it, looks held in place by a zip tie ??
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Thanks Chris, do you mean a small ceramic box, light blue color, at the right side of the voltage regulator (see picture)? I have owned this car for 13 years and never touched on this part. Is it the ballast resistor? Does 6V system have a ballast resistor? Thanks, JRA
Well not what I have seen in the past, but if its ceramic and wired to the ignition system then that would be it.
All the other Mopar products I have ever seen have a rectangular 2 inch long type resistor, but its possible that someone has replaced the original, and I cant think of any other reason for a ceramic piece as you have, other than to act as an ignition ballast; see if you can find another and change it anyway.
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This Bosch 6V coil I am using has 1.4 ohms resistance and it is the current replacement of Bosch Super Blue coil. I have used new 6V coils sold in US (black ones) with even worse results, so I gave up of them and started to use the Bosch ones, taht has better results, but it still overheats.
The car wiring seems to be ok, the harness is still the original one. Recently I installed an additional grounding cable, what improved the electrics performace (brighter lights, ...), but maybe there is something wrong and I do not know.
Thanks
JRA
OK but what about the ballast resistor ?
If your wiring is still standard then you will have a ballast resistor which reduces the coil voltage whilst the engine is running and increases the voltage durimg start, if it fails you will have a higher than normal coil voltage after start. Usually they are located on the engine rear bulkhead, a rectangular ceramic block about 2 inches long, I think I see yours just above the votage regulator; try changing that and see how you go.
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Two things come to mind. either the ballast resistor has quit or you have the wrong coil fitted. In order proceed further,how good are you with auto electrics?
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I was going to say what you have is absolutey typical of what we down here call a "buckboard". Generally these came about when a tourer (phaeton) or roadster reached the end of its useful life, the rear bodywork was removed and a tray or well sided structure was fabricated in its place.
On second look however, what I see in the rear bodywork looks a little more professional than we come to expect in our home made conversions. Certainly the fuel tank is wrong and has been transfered from its normal place under the rear chassis area, I imagine if you have a look under the tray at rear you will see the cutouts for fuel filler neck etc.
Yes the very early 58 models came with rear mechanical brakes only, as this was a variation of the Maxwell 25C which the Chrysler replaced.
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Well as you have surmised it could be one of two problems, fuel or ignition. The fact that there are occasions when you have too much fuel (flooding of the carb) is not good, you need to get that one sorted first.
As to ignition, Garry asks can you establish that the plugs are sparking; by removing the plugs and leaving them connected to the plug leads, positioning the body of the plugs in contact with the block and motoring the engine over with the starter you should see the plugs sparking.
Before moving any further these basics need to be established.
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I am surprised that it wont fire at all, even with the timing being off, if you add fuel to a couple of cylinders it should at least give a kick. I note in your first post that you had spark, what did you observe ? following the directions by jack m you should have proof positive.
If I have to start a dry engine I usually remove all the plugs, and with a small syringe, put a few drops of fuel in each cylinder, reinstall the plugs and attempt a start; 9 times out of 10 it will go.
As to the exhaust butterfly, this should not influence the start, if it is stuck closed all that will happen is the exhaust gases, when running, will be permanently heating up the inlet manifold, worst case scenario is vapourising when the engine gets hot, doubt this will be a problem in your climate at the moment. If its stuck open then the engine will probably cough and sputter a bit whilst its cold as there will be no inlet manifold heating.
So back to the beginning, if you have fuel and spark the engine should fire, even if timing is off there should be a kick from one or more cylinders and maybe even a backfire.
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OK let me see if I can explain this, during engine assembly the crank and cam gear have timing marks to set the correct point at which valves open and close as each piston nears top dead centre (tdc). For a variety of reasons a spark ignites the fuel in any one cylinder slightly before tdc (btdc).
In order to set the correct ignition firing point we start with positioning #1 cylinder; the means of doing this with your engine is to place #8 cylinder slightly before tdc on its exhaust stroke (see response #2 - .037 before tdc) meaning whilst #8 is slightly before tdc exhaust then concurrently #1 will be slightly before tdc compression.
In a four stroke cycle engine the cam gear is driven at half crank gear speed (see jack m response 9), for this reason there will be two occasions when the crank/cam gear marks will align - when #1 is at tdc compression with #8 at tdc exhaust and, when #8 is at tdc compression with #1 at tdc exhaust.
Whats important for you is to have the distributor rotor pointing to #1 spark lead when #1 is approaching tdc compression, now if someone has installed the camshaft 180 degrees out of phase it doesnt really matter - so long as the distributor is timed to the cam then all of the firing orders will be correct.
Hope you are not too confused by now ?
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All things being equal if you have fuel,spark and compression then it should fire.
As you bring #1 to tdc compression stroke are the points opening as the distributor rotor points to #1 lead in the distributor cap ?
Perhaps we need to go back a step and ask what led up to the timing issue in the first place, seems to me that taking the timing cover off to check timing marks is a pretty drastic step, unless you are building the engine up from scratch.
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Most of the wooden wheel era cars used that type of puller to remove the wood spoked wheels from their hub. There are so many of them about, that without a part number, it would be almost impossible to identify a particular make.
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Dont forget that a piston at top dead centre can either be on the top of compression or top of exhaust stroke, so as nick says the way to establish correct timing is having #8 at tdc exhaust whilst #1 is at tdc compression.
Because you have timing marks 180 degrees out, it is likely you have #1 at tdc exhaust; so rotate the crank from its present position, through another cycle, and you will get #1 at tdc compression.
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From another Maxwell owner - are you running a vacuum tank ? have you taken the top off the carb to check if there is actually fuel in it ?
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Hi Ian
Interesting thread, I have a 34 CB Chrysler in Adelaide, the firewall stamping numbering / data plates are almost identical to yours. I have found many brackets fittings etc. stamped with DR numbers so assume the Chrysler / Dodge manufacturing for these pooled common parts.
Like you, Chrysler has no build record of my car, makes it hard to piece the history together.
ch
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As per #4 the kickdown is all about getting the throttle to trans links adjusted properly, you really do need a workshop manual to get it right.
Anything which affects the positioning of these links, such as adjusting the carb likages, worn engine/trans mounts and so on, can cause the throttle to trans kickdown rod to be out of adjustment.
Of course there could be internal trans problems, but if the car drives OK then its more likely to be linkage adjstments.
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From a Motors repair manual, your mechanical pump would have supplied 3 - 4.5 psi.
I would be cautious about a 7 psi capable elec. pump as it would probably push the float down at high revs.
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Two observations from the contact photos:
1. they look reasonably new; and
2. the burn marks suggest that the condensor/capacitor is faulty, I would definitely be replacing it.
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Some of the cylinder head bolts do indeed go into the water jacket. I think the manifold studs do too.
In that case it might pay to remove the manfold/s and look for evidence of coolant leaks there before pulling the head.
The Mopars are known for this, and many a head has been pulled when all that was required was a good dose of sealant to the threads of the manifold studs / bolts.
But for the moment put it aside and enjoy the Festive Season.
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33 of them at 3/8" -16 x 2 3/4"
OK 3/8 and 33 of them probably explains the low torque value, I would certainly be using sealant if you go the head off route.
But before you go there just check on the manifold mount bolts in case they go into the water jacket, could save yourself a lot of trouble.
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The engine I believe does not have bolts into the water jacket but I will need to confirm that and will do that ASAP. Yes, my Hudson 6-cylinder engine requires 75-80 ft-lbs but the Kaiser/Frazer Service Manual indeed specifies just 35 ft-lbs for this engine. To that I must say that the rear most head bolts (5 of them) are not accessible by a torque wrench and I was unsuccessful in trying to adapt a crows foot, so the 5 bolts at the rear I could not retorque.
If I understand you correctly, the rear 5 head bolts have not been properly torqued, if that is the case then I would definitely consider this as a probable cause for the coolant leak.
Just out of curiosity what diameter are the head bolts ?
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Freshly rebuilt carburetor from Kanter and the auto choke does exactly what it is supposed to do. This is the third carburetor on the car over the past two years, but this one we know was rebuilt and if it works anything like it looks, it should be A-OK. Carburetor is a 2-bbl WGD.
Got as far as draining the oil this evening and indeed about 1/2 quart of coolant in the oil pan. But the car was not run for more than a moment or so after the catastrophic event occurred. It'll be a while at least before any motion to remove the head. So I've noted everything folks have posted here.
Just to reiterate as per response #4 - does this engine have manifold bolts that screw into the water jacket? If so you should consider that coolant can flood the manifold and then the cylinders; a fix here would obviously save pulling the head.
Forgive my ignorance, as I dont know this engine at all, but 35 pounds head bolt torque seems very low and obviously correct torqueing affects the sealing capabilities of the head gasket.
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NO coil resistor wire and positive ground hookup ok. The distributor is the correct one for the car and the one that came on the car. Plugs have been ok, only mild moisture from time to time or very little soot and easily cleaned. However, the cause of the white puff I believe has been determined this afternoon when I heard a drip and saw coolant dripping from the flange where the tailpipe bolts to the exhaust manifold and sure enough radiator dry. Engine was rebuilt and head bolts retorqued, but the evidence is there. Thanks for the help. Because of this latest issue the car will be parked indefinitely....too many other issues with it that just make the whole restoration effort too overwhelming.
Sorry to hear that, cylinders full of coolant would obviously reek havoc with smooth running.
So off with the head in the future, or is your engine like a number of other engines, where the exhaust / inlet manifold bolts screw into the water jacket?
If this were the case it would be a relatively easy fix.
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I would like to know the condition of the plugs after the stumbling, smoke blowing episode have you progressed any further since this occurrence ?
The plugs would presumably have been contaminated with oil or fuel if it was blowing smoke, typically over rich mixtures will leave heavy black, sooty deposits; however you mention white, blue smoke which is indicative of oil, and I am wondering if you are sucking oil into the cylinders in quantities that foul the plugs.
Cant imagine how this would happen but the color of the plugs will tell the tale and maybe establish a starting point, oh and while the engine is running rough dont expect to see your normal vacuum readings.
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Reviewing my post above, I must emphasise that the spark you are observing as the points are opened is only verifying that power is flowing through the primary circuit and then stopping as the points are opened. This event is what then triggers the high voltage spark from the coil to the plugs.
In order to get a spark from the coil we must first make and break the primary circuit if that makes sense ??
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Very good discussion. I had power to the points and in the other side when touching. I think I have three choices 1. the new coil is bad ( unlikely) 2. The points are shorting against the distributor wall somewhere ( possible and I may revisit the insulating washers on the bolt) or 3. A bad wire from the coil to the cap. (possible)
If the ignition is on and the cap is off should I see a visible spark between the points every time they get close?
I will do some more testing Saturday thanks all for the input.
Every time the points are bumped open by the distributor cam, the primary (low voltage) circuit through the coil is interrupted and, so yes a visible spark at the points should occur each time this happens. If you think about, it if the cam has 6 lobes on it, for every revolution of the distributor, the points interrupt the primary circuit 6 times and thus the 6 spark plugs are fired in sequence.
1951 Plymouth: very hot coil, no start, why??
in General Discussion
Posted
OK agreed no resistor in the 6v system; not a lot left in the circuit to create a resistance high enough to cause a coil to break down other than the coil itself.
Granted that you have replaced a number of coils and that you can start with a cold coil you dont have a lot of options remaining. Making sure you have the correct dwell angle is a possibility, this establishes the coil build up and collapse timings, condensor may have high resistance, are the points burnt/corroded, or there is a gremlin somewhere in the wiring.