Packard8

Can you say..."Resale Red"? It also features the extremely rare 4 cly engine (maybe 8 burned valves?). http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/c149337_W...1QQcmdZViewItem <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Yes, there were ?Studillacs? custom built in New York by Bill Frick Motors. http://www.car-nection.com/yann/dbas_txt/Drm54.htm One was featured in Ian Fleming?s James Bond novels. I think it was a natural swap due to the similar physical dimensions and much greater displacement and power. By 55 or 56 the Caddy was up to 365 cid while the Stude was only 259 inches. Caddy power was also popular in the Cunninghams and Allards of the period and I believe placed well at Le Mans.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Packard8 - You wrote: <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One thing that?s always puzzled me is how Studebaker was able to design and manufacture a first class V8 4 years before Packard.</div></div> I never studied the matter fully, but read more than one reference that Studebaker's V8 bore more than a passing similarity to Cadillac's V8. I've also heard of more than one Stude being refitted with a Caddy V8. Though that Stude motor debuted as more powerful (per cubic inch) than other V8 of the day, I've heard it lagged behind others over the course of the 1950s - until displacment reached 259cid and they began toying around with superchargers, culminating in Granatelli's work with the R-series motors for the Avanti. Now, I'm not saying Stude cloned their V8, but was "highly inspired" by the Cadillac V8 - more of a follower than a leader. </div></div> Actually, that?s another ?urban legend?. The two engines are similar in appearance (as most of the pushrod V8?s of the era were), but there are no interchangeable parts. The first Caddy OHV V8 was much larger displacement (331 vs 232), and I believe the Caddy used a chain driven camshaft. The intake will adapt with a bit of machining, but so will a Mopar as Eric has pointed out. Tho quite heavy for the displacement, it was a very stout and durable engine. In Studebaker's final years the Granatelli Bros were able to coax out around 300HP from the Avanti 289 R2 and an estimated 400HP from the 304 inch R3. An R3 powered 1964 Avanti held the US production car speed record of 167 MPH for about 30 years until the Corvette Z powered version came along to break it. Also, drag racer Ted Harbit has dyno?d his twin turbo Avanti at over 800HP last I read, and that is with a mostly stock Studebaker lower end and block. Not bad for an engine designed in 1949!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Rick, the article was either in CNB or PAC quarterly. They measured both a Packard and a Zis and confirmed mounting holes for fenders, etc. and although it is close, it is still a copy. It does make a good story though. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> The car probably got it's name when old Joe Stalin saw the first one and said, "Vot iz zis?" Sorry, couldn't help it. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> </div></div> Randy, I also remember that article and as I recall, they had a Ziz or Zil side by side with a Packard. While it?s clear that the Russian car was a copy of the Packard, the actual measurements of body panels, glass etc showed that the two cars could not have been made with the same tooling. I?ll give the Russians credit tho; they acquired three B-29 bombers that had to make an emergency landing on their territory during WW II and then ?disappeared?. Lo & behold, in 1949 they had a fleet of them flying. http://www.rb-29.net/HTML/03RelatedStories/03.03shortstories/03.03.10contss.htm

Good points, and well presented. One thing that?s always puzzled me is how Studebaker was able to design and manufacture a first class V8 4 years before Packard. Other than changes in bore & stroke over the years, the Stude V8 remained virtually unchanged from 1951 thru 1964, and is still ?modern? by today?s standards (gear drive camshaft, forged steel crankshaft & connecting rods and capable of more than one HP per cubic inch in streetable tune). Did the Packard execs have their heads in the sand (or elsewhere) when they saw the competition offering OHV V8?s, even in lower priced cars? Even though the postwar 356 & 359 engines offered competitive performance (especially with a standard/OD trans) to Cad, Lincoln & Chrysler, the perception of a flathead straight 8 was that of an ?old man?s car?. After all, we were in the Jet Age and names like ?Skypower? and ?Rocket 88? and ?Firedome? adorned the valve covers of the competition?s V8?s.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wonder why these high priced repos aren't clear. They have a yellowish cast to them. I guess I am just picky. I am glad I have a lowely senior car also and won't be needing them. Anyone can ask anything for their parts but this persons attitude would stop me from buying if I needed them. </div></div> I?m shocked that you would ask, you Philistine! Any ?true collector? who is not ?weak at heart? would know that the ?Artiste? who created these beautiful pieces painstakingly sought to reproduce the ?patina? of a 50 year old lens! Well, actually, Jose had a hangover that morning when he mixed the batch of plastic at the Tijuana Injection Molding Works????.

"These lenses fit 1956 Clippers, 1957 and the few 1958 Packard cars and the very rare Packard Hawks. Accept Pay-Pal only. Please no nonsense e-mail questions." Yes, it would indeed be very rare Packard Hawk that used these lenses! Would it be a "nonsense" email to set the guy straight on the point? <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What if the valve isn't functioning properly? Would that give the same result? Is that valve used for controlling power windows also? I don't have a 54 shop manual and the 22nd-23rd leaves a lot to be desired for information. Could he wire a test light on the output side of the top switch and see if he is getting juice out of the up position of the switch? That would tell him quick if the switch were at fault. </div></div> Hi Randy, I no longer have the 54 ragtop, but from memory the top control when pushed ?in? performs two functions. It turns the hyd pump on via a switch and a valve directs the fluid to the bottom orifice of the double-action top mechanism rams causing them to extend and the top to raise. His post said ?no response? so I?m guessing the pump motor isn?t running when the control is pushed ?in?, but does when pulled ?out?. To me this narrows it down to the electrical contact in the top control that turns the pump on. If the hyd valve or rams were bad the motor would run but the top wouldn?t move (and the rear floor would be full of red fluid!) <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

The top control is a combination hyd valve & electric switch. Sounds like the switch contact in the "up" position is dirty or broken. In an emergency, you can "hotwire" the hyd pump motor and then put the top control in the up position and the top should go up (be careful not to go beyond the limit). The fact that the pump works in the "down" position indicates that the pump & cyls are okay, just not getting juice to the up contact.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Forgot to ask how hard it is to get an original 359 head or reproduction. Also what specific numbers indicate it is a 359? Thanks. </div></div> Yes, the 288, 327 & 356 heads will bolt right on. Be sure to calculate your end result effective C/R tho. As far as I know, there are no repro 359 heads. They are easy to identify, as they are marked ?359? just aft of the rad hose inlet and they are aluminum, not iron (they are also slightly taller, and have more rounded edges). The chances of finding an original in good shape is pretty slim?many (most) were replaced due to failure early on in the car?s life.

Yep, looks like little Petey is off his meds again. I think he is going for the Guinness Record for getting the Bum?s Rush from old car DF?s?lol. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I have a ?55 Pat that I was going to cannibalize the factory air off of for the Carib. But?.I?ve thought better about taking the SawzAll to the firewall and dash of the Carib and the Pat is really too nice a car to part out (IMHO). Very complete (full factory A/C setup) with straight solid sheetmetal and pretty decent chrome. I think one head gasket is blown, but it appears to have a rebuilt tranny (freshly painted anyway) and does ?yard drive?. PM or email me if there is any interest. The car is in Woodbridge CA, sort of halfway between Sacramento & Stockton.

Being a '56, its even easier to manually adjust the TL. Just take a remote starter button and connect one lead to the neg side of the batt and the other to one of the two relays mounted on the driver's side fender well....one makes the rear go up, the other down.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Anyone know of a later model custom-bodied Packard than this 1951? </div></div> Well, if Henney qualifies, they made Hearses, Limos & Executive Sedans thru 1954. On the PAC website ?Showroom? there are also a 1954 Derham Limo and a Patrician Station Wagon (I assume based on the Henney Senior ambulance/hearse).

I recall reading somewhere that a 359 with the Turtlematic attached tips the scales around 1100 lbs. 900-950 for the engine with accesories attached sounds right. Just the crankshaft on a 9-main weighs #105.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what would this # indicate on a 48 Packard engine block G121714? </div></div> Well, ?G? would be the correct letter for 1948, but the ?1? would indicate a 6 cyl (mostly domestic taxi cabs & export sedans). A Standard or Deluxe 8 would be G2xxxxx, a Super G4xxxxx and the Custom a G6xxxxx engine designation.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Packard 8 I will have a set of frame perches for the 51-54's as soon as i pull the motor out of a 54 Panama than has a bent frame. </div></div> Hi Albert, Thanks, sounds good. I?m not in a big rush, but PM or email me when the parts are available and we can discuss price, shipping etc. Looks like they will come off without too much hassle if the rivet heads are ground off when the engine is out. Best, John

Great info Dave, thanks. I?ve read that the post-war 9 main engines also benefited from Packard?s WWII experience in aircraft & marine engine production. Mainly in better breathing due to canted valves, improved combustion chamber design and I believe the highest C/R of any production flathead. Even tho it only lived one year, the 359 9 main went thru a sort of evolution with the late production ?B? blocks and was a testament to the Packard designers. Marketing, more than performance dictated the demise of the straight 8, as they ran pretty competitively against factory sponsored Lincolns in the Mexican road races. When showroom buyers opened the hood of a ?54 Packard and saw 8 sparkplugs in a row, they just saw ?Grampa?s car?, as compared to a sexy new OHV V8 in a Caddy, Olds, Buick etc.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">B.H. I'm not really sure what that means. I'm not being sarcastic I just don't really understand what you are trying to say. Is the # on the driver's side of the block towards the bottom near the firewall, a true indicator or not of what size engine you have? </div></div> Packardguy??.scroll up about 15 posts in this thread and you will see how to find the S/N on the block. Yes, that will tell you what that block was (year, model & cid) when it left the factory. However, crankshafts & piston/bores can be changed so the only way to know for sure is to measure the bore & stroke.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nice sleuthing, John! The casting number is often different than the number for the finished part. The head could have come in "raw" from the foundry, with one number, but a different number was assigned to the part after it was machined - to distinguish parts for inventory control purposes. </div></div> Interesting?.I?ve come across several straight 8 heads whose P/Ns don?t show up in the parts book.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Again - if you take issue with how I run and moderate this forum feel free to contact me. Call me at: 520-991-7940 Email me at: antiqueautoclubofamerica-webmaster@yahoo.com Or contact the AACA Internet Committee Chairman (my boss). Bond, Terry L. 541 Forest Road Chesapeake, VA 23322 terry007@infionline.net </div></div> Peter, I can only speak for myself, but I?m glad to see that someone is restoring order here. I don?t necessarily see this as censorship (53Packard did request that the thread he started be deleted) but more as enforcing the Terms & Conditions that we all agreed to when we signed up here. If it is not in there already, I?d suggest you amend the T&C?s to prohibit ?multiple personalities??..i.e. the same person posing as different posters. From what I?ve seen here lately, this practice is used solely to disrupt the forum and foment discord. If anyone has an opinion or information to offer, let them do so under their established screen name. Thanks, John

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I forgot to mention the car the engine is in is a 48 Super 8 conv. </div></div> It looks like that number could be consistent with a ?48, but as mentioned, all the heads are interchangeable. See if you can get the number off the block, not the head.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">what would 889719327 indicate and where is this # located? The man that gave me this # said he got it from the engine in his Packard. </div></div> Just guessing, but I'll bet he mis-copied the first digit (should be a "3", not "8") That would be a part number found on the head. There would be a space between the first 6 digits and the last 3, with "327" being a head from a 327cid engine. Closest I can find in the parts book is: 389720 (327) That is a 7.5 C/R head for the 22nd series.

I'm with you on radials, be they blackwall, narrow or wide whites (my pref). I don?t show my cars for competition any longer so safety and handling are more of a concern than judging points. Your friend?s Pontiac might have Firestones purchased thru Coker, as they sell repros from original molds as well as their own house brand. I don?t believe the earlier comment that: ?For all those with '56 packs, you CAN use thin white wall tires. There are several period photos of auto shows and dealer show rooms that show that the thin white wall was an option in '56. AND that will save you a ton of money because they are VERY available.? is entirely accurate?.. I?d want to see documentation that narrow whites were an option before I spent the money only to get an authenticity deduction.

?I'll use 'em on my drivers, but I'm not convinced that narrow whitewall tires were available as a factory option.? I agree Brian, I think you?d have a hard time convincing a judge at a show that narrow whites are correct for a ?56. In fact, I don?t know of any bias ply tire currently available with a narrow whitewall?.(you would get gigged for authenticity displaying ANY radial tire). If you go to Coker?s site (not the final authority, but a good resource) you will find that their ?selector? defines the ?correct? tire for a ?56 Packard as a choice of several brands of bias ply tires with whitewalls ranging from 2.5 to 3.5 inches.