Dynaflash8

QUOTE HVS: This is a renewed<BR> lesson to ME and should be for all of us. NEVER TRUST THE<BR> MEMORY. LOOK IT UP!!<BR>UNQUOTE<BR>I can't help but remember buying a 1955 Ford Crown in 1982. I had a 55 Fairlane Town sedan when married in '59, and drove it many miles.....but I couldn't find the dipstick on the Crown in '82. Yep, don't depend on the memory!!

No, not 30 years. Twenty-three years ago I took over teaching judging from George Liddel, and I never taught that. As delivered from the factory, WITHIN REASON. In those days many sizes were not made by anyone; and that is still true today, but to a lesser extent. AACA never deducted for the "DOT" markings required by law, or the name Coker or Universal. As I said earlier, and I started it, we deducted for letter tires in 15 inch sizes that were available in 1978 and much less expensive than 6.70x15 or 7.10x15, and people were using them. From there things seem to have gone to an extreme. However, with well over 100 judging credits, I've never known of a case where anybody took of points for the word "tubless" or the name of the company or the DOT marking. If it is being done, somebody needs to tell somebody to "get real".<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by red t:<BR><B>Like Howard, I lost my ID, but I'm back. I just don't understand all this discussion on the tubeless tires. For more than 30 years I have attended AACA judging schools and heard the famous statement "we judge cars as they were delivered to the dealers" , either we do or we don't! Everyone on this DF know that we don't. At any AACA Nat. show more than 90 percent of the vehicles on the showfield are not as they were delivered to the dealer. The committee allows for this variation and that variation , so why do we keep using this famous statement,when we know that it's not true. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

Ron: I'm restoring a 71 Riviera. On the inside of the glove box are listed all of the available tire sizes; which are more than those listed in the brochure. Radials are listed as HR78x15. Other tire sizes are H78x15 narrow whitewall bias and H70x15 wide oval. Also listed are radials with a Michelin size of 215R15 and 225R15. 7.75x15 is listed but not in red line which is available. White is not available. So, none of the sizes are available today, repeat, none. It would be dangerous and foolish to use a smaller tire that is avialable, i.e. F70x15 wide oval or a 4-inch whitewall H78x15 bias ply. Therefore, the correct size is (or should be) P215R7515 or P225R7515 radial. I saw such a tire deducted on a 72 Riviera in Florida two years ago. I hope that kind of mistake won't happen again.<BR>F <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ronbarn:<BR><B>Hokay - I'm back from Hershey where I attended the Judging Committee meeting. Regarding this thread here are the results.<P>1. Grinding the word Tubeless, or any other words or letters off of the tire will void any warrantees and should not in any way be construed as AACA policy or recommendation<P>2. If a tire has the Tubeless markings and is installed with a tube, there should be no deductions. This is consistent with an earlier post by hvs. This has always been the Judging Committee position, it has never changed, we are not "way off base".<P>3. The as they came from the factory has always been relative to size of tire and basic construction. This criteria does not include make of tire.<P>4. For tires sizes that are no longer available, use the closest size available with the same type construction.<P>The AACA Judging Committee establishes the criteria and does their best with the judging schools to educate the judges - an individual action by a field judge does not necessarily mean that AACA criteria has changed. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

First, I drove a few hundred thousand miles before there was such a thing as a radial tire, and had no safety difficulty, or any other kind of difficulty, except they didn't wear as long.<BR>Second, while radial tires have been available in 15 inch sizes for some time and people have complained about not being able to use them, they weren't available in 16-inch sizes (now apparently they are) so I couldn't run them on my pre-War car anyway, even if I'd wanted to. Same is true of 17 inch tires now. What's fair for 14 and 15 inch cars is fair for the rest in judging.<BR>Third, I put radials on my 66 Chrysler because they were cheaper (49.99) than the correct 8.55x14 tires, which also wore poorly, wearing bald at around 10K miles. They do not ride any better, or perhaps even as well as the 8.55x14 tires.<BR>Much of it is hokem, sofar as I'm concerned. The fact is, radials ride the truck grooves better (and in the 50s&60s there weren't truck grooves from those heavy monsters) and they wear longer, and they are cheaper than collector tires. That's the big difference.

Grinding off the word "Tubeless" is going from the subline to the rediculous. I don't know how so much of this stuff has been changed since the seventies when most of these rules were put into place. If the size tire from the factory is unavalble, anywhere, the rule has always been since the early days that you use the next best thing; i.e. 6.25x16 tires are not made, so you use either 6.00x16 or 6.50x16. That's easy because most judges wouldn't know better. HVS is absolutely correct, if the car is earlier than 1954 (using my memory here) then you put a tube into the tire. All this stuff about tire sizes was started in my time, 1978-79 when F-G-H size wide whitewalls were popular and Universal and others were making the correct sizes. <BR>Now for a new subject, almost. Late 1960s and early 1970s cars were offered with radial tires. Larger cars had H78x15 bias, or H70x15 wide oval or HR78x15 radials. None, and I repeat, none of those tires are made today, by any manufacturer. Other sizes available were Michelin radials of 215 or 225 or 235x15, but none of those had the P in front, or the R70 or R75 behind the 225. They aren't available either. A P225R75/15 is then, the closest tire size made today.<BR>Seems like we need some more thought about where we've been, where we are, and where we're going here.<BR>

Tod: You forgot Reisterstown Road Plaza ... it was a judged Meet. You must get more active in a local club on the West Coast, Tod. You have a lot to offer in age and experience. I keep telling you this. <BR>A "low-cost driver" at for local shows? Remember what the real estate salesman may have said about your first house. "It's a great starter home".<BR>I suspect you will soon see more areas where "starter cars" (equates to "low-cost drivers")are encouraged, as AACA seeks to lower costs to attract young adult members.

I wonder how many people remember the red field? You know, back where the roller coaster is now, behind the maintenance building? Remember the 70s? The hills there were tremendous, there was a creek at the bottom. In 1978 or 1979 it rained cats and dogs all weekend. The creek washed some markets away even.....Our 71 Dodge van slid down one of the steep hills. Our space was on one of those hills and people would slide by even. People walked around in trash bags for raincots and boots. We didn't complain, we laughed about it, but you see, I was around 40 then and "ontheroad" was only around 45.... ....makes a difference. <BR>Seriously now, things are programmed to get better after the new stadium is built on the green field. Lots of hardtop is in our future, so buck up folks!<BR>As for the weather, Saturday was the most uncomfortable for me....the wind was biting and it seemed very cold, same for Sunday ... there was frost Sunday morning. I've seen 22 degrees in 1964 and 1974 and I've seen 80s before as well. As long as I can walk (which is less than I used to without getting tired) I'll be at Hershey....it's the "Greatest Show on Earth".<P>[This message has been edited by Dynaflash8 (edited 10-09-2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by Dynaflash8 (edited 10-09-2000).]

OK on all of that BruceW....good thoughts. Man, I don't know where you live but your post is 4:22AM......wow, you're an earlybird

Just back from Hershey, the "Greatest Show on Earth". Lots of mud in the flea market (or some areas of it) again, but still found stuff. As for the Show, it was stupendous. I only want to comment on a couple of things said while I was gone. Bruce, you can have it all, a Senior car, and a driver all in one. Once a Senior winner, or Grand National Senior winner drive it. When you drive your modern car you lose some (or a lot of )money; why should an old car be different? It doesn't hurt to be careful, of course, but you can still drive and tour it. If it runs down and you love it enough, restore it again, it's no different than buying a new car. Worried about a wreck? What's the insurance for? I've driven my Senior '39 Buick over 10K miles in the last number of years, and when entered in 2000, it still managed a GN Senior. It can be done, don't be afraid to show and go. <BR> AlSmeraldo: As for a "committee from the top", leadership and direction from the top leaves no question that "whatever it is that is being done" is okay to do at the local level. Don't you think? On the other hand, things that are really desired and that rise from the local level usually become part of the policy at the top. When I spoke of a "committee of younger members" I wasn't speaking of folks at the top, but a group to provide information to folks at the top.<BR> P.S. I really appreciate all of this input from you younger fellows. You are, after all the future of the hobby.<P>[This message has been edited by Dynaflash8 (edited 10-09-2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by Dynaflash8 (edited 10-09-2000).]

Don't forget the REO Club. I understand it is pretty active and have a friend in it. But, I don't have the address and am leaving this morning for Hershey. If you don't get it by next Monday email me and I'll call my friend and send it to you. <p>[This message has been edited by Dynaflash8 (edited 10-03-2000).]

The last person, Michael, made some very good points. However, I'd like to point out that I, personally, have never been very rich. First I worked a part-time job for some number of years for restoration money. In my time I have built 3 1st Junior cars, 2 Senior cars and 1 Grand National First. After 18 years the Grand National First got a Grand National Senior this year. I've done that by subcontracting the work to good mechanics who were willing to work on the side, in each of the individual categories of a restoration. I've used bumper platers for steel and only high-priced platers for white metal, or gotten NOS, or chrome parts from the West. I've never taken a body off, but done the chassis the hard way, laying on the back. The point is then, that it can be done. There are certain classes of cars in the 50s and 60s which are currently in extreme competition, but that, too, will pass. A friend of mine played the game with a 58 Cadillac, and played, and improved and played some more, and one day he won.....it's kinda like football, at any given meet, it could be your day.....maybe even the richest man in the world was somewhere else that day.<BR> More good news along the lines you speak is that consideration is being given to a "Drivers Class" without this bare-knuckles competition. You could hear something about that in the VERY near term, maybe so, maybe no.<BR> I also have an HPOF car. No bare-knuckles competition here either. I kinda like the challenge of competition, but this is a really good old 65 year old car and folks like to see it the way it is. My Dad drove my Mom to the hospital for me to be born, in one exactly like it. But, when I got it, it was well on its way to a streetrod.....the wheels and tires were changed, dual exhausts installed. I guess I saved it. Had to find original rear axles and front brake drums and backing plates and replace the sealed-beam adapters, but it felt good to put it back on track.<BR> I've rambled a bit, but my points are (1) where there's a will there's a way, and (2) maybe more help and consideration of the average man is on the way.<BR> <P><BR>[This message has been edited by Dynaflash8 (edited 10-02-2000).]<P>[This message has been edited by Dynaflash8 (edited 10-02-2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by Dynaflash8 (edited 10-02-2000).]

Glad you got your 39 Buick convertible back. I got mine back also last Thursday. Difference is //smiling// I had to buy it back after its being 15 years away from home. Would enjoy corresponding with your Dad about his 39 Buick convertible also<p>[This message has been edited by Dynaflash8 (edited 10-01-2000).]

I just got back from Carlisle. Got up at 4AM after going to bed at 11:30 and it's 12:30 AM now. I think I'm still able to have a good time at 62, and that's amazing. Younger guys need to know this hobby keep you young <smile>. Thanks for the comments you last two fellows.....it's good information, and I like the idea of a Friday night cruise-in at a National Meet. Be a good change of pace. This is a serious dicussion. We're listening, I'm listening. And hopefully we'll do some learning too. Thanks for your rsponses.....and DaveMoon, the only reason your opinion of AACA has improved is because your're learning. Nothing is new really, I was 23 when I joined and I've been there and done that with most of this the same as you are doing now.......but think of this....the audience at the top is listening now, learning now, which wasn't true in 1966. Thaks guys

PS: Buick59, my wife and I are restoring a 71 Riviera as we speak. Think it'll turn my white hair black?

You last two guys lift my heart. When I was sixteen, proud of my sidemounted 39 Buick with leather interior, my favorite date said to me one night, "I hate to tell you this, but the kids around school call your car Beauchamp's Hearse!" Just think, my classic car! Well, like a dumb cluck I traded it in on a 1952 Plymouth Belvedere hardtop. That was on July 31. By September 30 I'd lost both my Buick and the girl! What you guys are saying is sort of a repeat of history. The problem today is, there aren't enough of you guys, and other young adults I think. How can we interest more folks from 25-45 or 50 (let's say--and I see one of you is 17) in authentic car collecting in AACA? Muscle cars aren't a problem if restored to factory specs. In 1962 fellow collectors called my 39 Buick a "used car" when I tried to show it. That changed my life and not for the better I think. So, I've been there and done that. I don't fault any guy for his interest. I just want him to be one of us and live by the code. I'm not gonna live forever; we need new folks between my age and the kids we're trying to interest to take the club over for awhile. We need lots of them, too. Come on, this is heating up and starting to be fun, so lets hear some suggestions about how we can get more young adults interested without compromising the tenants and ideals of AACA.<p>[This message has been edited by Dynaflash8 (edited 09-25-2000).]

Golly, sounds like a super car. Do they make big, fat, rolly-polly BMW's that ride like Buicks? I'd need to feel at home.

Sal and Novaman your comments are great and you have expressed the problem; now what is a solution? Yes, I grew up from 1941-1951 in my Dad's 39 Buick; and then I got my 39 Buick in 1955 as my first car. I got the current one in 1963 to make it like the one in 1955, and Thursday I got back my 39 convertible sedan I sold in 1985 to build my retirement home. All that is true, but I never worked on cars; they could have been computer driven as far as I was concerned. We're all hung up on the cars of our youth, or most of us are; but that isn't the question. AACA is a club for "furthering the interest in and preserving of antique automobiles" among other things. Whatever the age of the antique automobile modifying is not preserving. Preserving without modifying has been something I've found younger folks I've talked to, too often unwilling to accept. How can we interest them in larger numbers to see the value of authentic restoration and sportsmanship and camaraderie with others of like interest?<P>[This message has been edited by Dynaflash8 (edited 09-24-2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by Dynaflash8 (edited 09-25-2000).]

While my generation is turning white-haired, and AACA is actively trying to build interest in the old car hobby at the early age in child development; what about the parents of those children? What about the sons and daughters of we oldtimers?<BR> There seems to be a graying of the Club, with many more of my generation then the next. I will soon be 62, but I've been here since I was 23. Basically I've given a large part of my life to AACA and its various organizations and programs.<BR> Recently I have become friendly with an intelligent 32 year-old new father who is into our hobby as I was 35 years ago. He has recently almost completed an AUTHENTIC restoration of an antique car of his choice. He has impressed me a great bit. He reads this forum but I won't say who his is.<BR> Unlike many or most I've met his age, he isn't into restoring a car with modifications that fit his fancy, authentic or not. I can't help but recall asking one fellow around that age why he put rallye wheels on his '57 Chevy, to be told in no uncertain terms that the "original wheels don't float my boat." I had to grit my teeth. So, this young father I've met is a refreshing change, and it got me thinking. I thought, "now here's a fellow that might have something to offer...."<BR> Instead of us old geezers trying to figure out what we have to do to attact the young adults we need to follow us in leadership, the parents of the children we are teaching as Terry Bond speaks of in his post, why don't we go to the horses mouth?<BR> It occurs to me that a select Committee of really interested and knowledgeable AACA member young adults who have made themselves known by participation at the various levels of AACA may be able to examine the thinking of their own age group from the inside out and develop a program that would appeal to more of their generation. This would need to be a program to encourage authentic restoration of the vehicles that their generation is in love with and club participation. Such a Committee, possibly under the leadership of a national leader, would need to present good rational thinking their generation might understand and suggest programs that would bring those people into our hobby rather than the modified hobby. My biggest concern about such a Committee is how young adults from around the country and not living close together could afford to meet and discuss the issue, what with children, house payments, car payments, jobs and professions to be concerned with. Yeah, young adults earn more then they did in my day, but still that would be a strain. Hmm, I don't have a good answer for that except maybe computer conferencing.<BR> What do you think out there in DF-land? Doya think there's a chance something like that would work?<p>[This message has been edited by Dynaflash8 (edited 09-24-2000).]

Yes, Skip is a friend of mine, and I called him both the last two nights, but only got the machine and he hasn't called back. And I do think he probably has the knobs, but I wonder if he has the plastic pushbuttons. Thanks very much for the Hershey spaces tho, because I didn't know that. And Tod Fitch, yes of course it's a Buick. It's the same black, then yellow 39 4-door convertible I had when you lived in Baltimore. I just bought it back after its 15 year hiatus in NC

Looking for a source for reproduced or used 1939 (maroon plastic) radio knobs and push buttons. Anybody know?

Are you speaking to me?

For immediate sale. 1954 Packard Clipper Super Panama 2-door hardtop. New paint, yellow with black top. Original interior extremely nice. 67000 miles. Engine detailed, trunk detailed. Shown nationally, ran 2000 Founders Tour. Automatic transmission, PS, PB, AM-FM conversion, power antenna, 327 cid straight 8 engine, five new Universal 7.60x15 wide whitewalls. Much new chrome, some nice original. Chance to buy a super car I've wanted for years makes this car available today for only $12,000....book is $12,600.

For immediate sale. 1966 Chrysler Newport convertible. Silver, Black interior (original), black top. Factory AM-FM, cold Chrysler Airtemp correct under dash air conditioning. PS/PB, 5 new radial tires, new tailpipe and lifetime muffler. perfect automatic transmission. Fast, reliable, runs great. Has finished FOUR Founders Tours, been driven to THREE National Meets in Florida from Maryland and Virginia. Second owner, 100087 miles. $6800 today!<p>[This message has been edited by Dynaflash8 (edited 09-20-2000).]

For what its worth, fractory fender skirts for 1939-40 Olds were not the same as factory fenderskirts for 1941 and 1942

What I can't figure out is how I missed out on a Corral space. I know whenever it was possible to ask for one I did. But I never got one, never got any specific application, nothing. When I returned from California and read the mag I called, and was a day late. Later I called the number and got a machine and no return call. I guess if it doesn't rain I'll take the car onto the white field and put it into my solitary flea market space. Would anybody like to jump onto a nice old '54 Packard two door hardtop before Hershey? Beautiful new paint job, runs good, new ww tires. Save me a lot of trouble...and if I can sell it quick maybe I can get my old convertible back.