ca65riv

Thanks for the responses. I did replace the paper back with a plastic one to ensure the wires were seated correctly but there continued to be problems. Bench-testing just the switch with a 12v power sources reproduces the issues with a couple of the pins. Presumably there's not really much to these things on the inside, but newer-looking ones seem to have the metal tabs that screw into the underside of the door-arm plate in a different position and seem to have 10 pins that wouldn't mate to the '65 connector. Will take it apart and see what's inside. I see some sites that sell the guts for various switches, but none directly for the 2x2 buick switch, hoping maybe they look the same on the inside https://www.caddydaddy.com/shop-parts/switch/window.html?prod_year=499 http://www.fusickautomotiveproducts.com/products.asp?dept=852 Thanks, Tim

Having some trouble with 1965 power window 4-button master switch. A couple of switches only operate the windows in a single direction. There was some crackling and puff of smoke coming from the switch. * Does anyone know where to find a replacement? I could only find one for sale on ebay, but dubious whether it would work or not, and pricey. * Is it possible to disassemble and repair, does anyone have experience with this, perhaps by cannibalizing parts from a newer switch? Or does anyone offer such a service? * Or has anyone somehow installed and wired up a newer model 4-button switch? Thanks in advance, Tim

Thanks for the pointers will pull the lights and see what I find.

Having some troubles with my headlights on the driver side of my 65 and wanted to verify correct operation as well as correct replacement bulbs. With the headlights on (switch in "driving position" per the service manual) operating the foot dimmer alternates between the top headlamp-only on and both headlamps on. Assuming then the top-only represents "dim" and both on represent "bright" (meaning the top is the "outboard" unit or Type 2 referred to in the manual, bottom is "inboard" or Type 1)? Is this operation correct? Turns out this is the behavior only on the passenger side. On the driver side operating the foot dimmer switches between top-only and neither (i.e. both off). Could this be explained by a faulty bottom headlamp only or do I have a wiring issue? Finally does anyone have a recommendation for replacement sealed beam units? The manual has them as bulb number 4001 and 4002-L which seem difficult to find. On RockAuto it lists parts number 4000 and 5001 for "low beam" and "high beam" Halogen bulbs respectively. Are these correct? Thanks! Tim

Thought I'd close the loop on my door jamb switches. Ended up sending them off to Gordon Wolfgang to be rebuilt and they now work perfectly. Mr Wolfgang was also very patient and flexible when it came to payment, somehow taking weeks for a check to get from CA to him. Thanks for the recommendation and thanks to Mr Wolfgang.

I spotted this on ebay which appears to be designed for this scenario, but have not purchased it myself. Also unclear if the added 1" height would be a problem or not. Pricey too. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Carter-WCFB-Rochester-4GC-adapter-for-stock-air-cleaner-on-Edelbrock-carburetor/362081315039

Are the tops on all these different Carter models broadly interchangeable (and would fit on an Edelbrock 1406), net the position of the fuel inlet that Tom T highlighted? And for my own clarity, if I'm looking for a complete AFB to rebuild, I'd be targeting a 3921 model? Are there others that could interchange with that? (source of reference: http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Kbuick3.htm). Finally, since my car is a bit of a mish-mash I did check the manifold stamping at it reads B 1363782 which I think is right for a '65 401.

Ah, interesting option for the 66 air cleaner. Thank you for the suggestion.

Hah! I was thinking that but unfortunately I think the flange (?) on the wide part isn’t tall enough to clear the carb neck which is why I think someone created that pricey ebay item. Appreciate the ideas!

Thanks Ed - But I think this (and many like it) are designed for the other direction - putting one's nice shiny aftermarket Edelbrock air cleaner on an older Carter AFB carb neck (I think they're almost always shown upside down, i.e. the narrow part should be on the bottom). I've heard other folks buying stock aircleaners and cutting the openings, or somehow affixing the base of a modern air cleaner to a stock one. I think path of least resistance would be to pony up and get a nice remanufactured Carter; it's on the list! Tim

Thank you for the responses. I was looking at potential parts AFBs on Ebay, although seems a bit of a crapshoot in finding one that won't be too damaged (accepting I only need the top part), perhaps better route is to get the best one I can and to get it rebuilt. And yes, the Edelbrock fuel inlet is towards the back, so good steer there. I did see someone selling this adapter, but feel like I'd rather put the $50 towards a new carb. And 1" height addition would likely be problematic. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Carter-WCFB-Rochester-4GC-adapter-for-stock-air-cleaner-on-Edelbrock-carburetor/362081315039 On my air cleaner itself - any known sources for a compatible breather / tubing / fitment for the cleaner snout? I'd rate my Googling skills above average but have failed to come up with anything. Thanks, Tim

Hello all - Some questions about air cleaners. My 65 has a Edelbrock 1406 carb with your typical shiny air cleaner on it. Sadly I don't have the original Carter AFB. However, I do have what looks like the original air cleaner. So I have a few questions: Does anyone know of a way to mate the original air cleaner to the Edelbrock 1406 for a more stock look. If I understand it, the original air cleaner has a 4 7/32" opening, the Edelbrock air cleaner and carb is something like 5 1/8" . I've seen adapters to go in reverse (add a modern aftermarket air cleaner to a Carter AFB) but nothing in the direction I want. Can I verify this is an original air cleaner? It has a hose connecting the snorkel to a filter that pushes into the valve cover, was that a California-specific option? The rubber hose is cracked and coming apart - is it possible to replace these, does anyone know of a source? Right now I just have a push-in Edelbrock valve-cover breather. Is there any "harm" in not having this PCV connected up, other than fumes venting into the engine bay, or possible to connect this to my Edelbrock air cleaner? Appreciate any insight here. Thanks, Tim

Hah, great find. Unfortunately I'm out of the particular fuel needed for this performance part, and I see that O'Reilly doesn't sell any, so will also have to pass until such times as I could find a local supplier...

Final update on this one: I got my new relay, followed the instructions here: Worked like a charm. I bought a single-port plastic connector housing and inserted the black/orange connector in there to connect to the single prong on the relay. Had to get a bit creative on the orientation of the relay to avoid drilling more holes... the spacing of the holes on the 4-prong relay bracket differed to bracket from the original relay and the broken replacement but was able orient it in a way to make use of 2 of the 4 holes I had and still make everything stretch (the wire from the main relay to the connector for the aux was pretty short). Back in business. Now onto the clock, clock lamp, fuel guage, radio and antenna... Cheers, Tim

Good call there, a bit of wiggling of the bulb and the light came on. I've now seen all my courtesy lights on! Door jamb switch operates all lights successfully although not just all at the same time, it seems to be the contact the switch is making with the metal as with a little bit of hand pressure things work. Progress, and thanks for the help.

On my #2 issue, I made substantial progress: * The front lower courtesy lights had the wrong bulbs in them with the incorrect base, I replaced those with No 90 lamps, replaced the map light, replaced the 5A fuse and lo! I had light in the front, including glove box. And no blown fuse. * Rear sail panel lights had no bulbs. A couple more no. 90s and at least 1 of the sail panels is working * Lights come on with front courtesy switch * Lights come on when door opens, although a bit of jiggling needed on the door jamb switch, so something to look at there. I've got some questions remaining though: 1. My clock light doesn't work. I replaced the bulb but nothing. Am I right in saying that the clock light should come on with the rest of the dash panel lights (most of which seem to work)? 2. My left rear sail panel light does not work, checked with a known working bulb. The right rear works. Thinking next step is to remove the bulb socket and assembly and check the voltage/wiring there. 3. The service manual figure 10-167 suggests there is a Dome - Roof Center bulb on "ALL" models. I don't see that on the wiring diagram, nor do I have one. Is there one hidden under my headliner, or did the Riviera not have one? I do have a Dome 20A fuse but as far as I can tell from the wiring diagram, that is connected to the rear sail panels and the trunk light switch although 20A seems like a pretty beefy fuse for those circuits. 4. Is there really a little bulb hidden down there in the front ash try, maybe towards the right hand side? I don't see it mentioned on the classiccarwiring.com color diagram, but do see it on the service manual wiring diagram and Figure 10-167 lists it as a bulb No 53. Thank you! Tim

I'm thinking it could also be the connector. Today I had a behavior where I had the Aux relay connector pulled off and headlamp covers open and when I plugged in the connector to the Aux relay with no key in ignition, the headlamps closed. The metal tabs in the plastic connector look pretty poor condition, I'm wondering if that hot wire off the main relay is somehow connecting to the black/orange wire to trip the relay. Anyway, I did order a new relay, seemed like $7 well spent (for the record I ended up buying this one, not sure how heavy duty but interchangeable part number as far as I can tell: https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=930660&jsn=114) Plan is to do a bit more investigation on the connector first but replacing relay seems inevitable. Thank you for the help.

On issue #1, I've experimented a bit and read as many previous forum posts I could find on Aux relays and determined the following: I unplugged the connector from the Aux relay and left it for a few days - no battery drain. So evidence seems to support that it is this relay (or maybe the Main relay could still be implicated since they are connected). I found lots of valuable information from posts by @Seafoam65 . As far as I can tell, my wiring is sound. Pin 3 on the Aux relay is connected to the black/orange wire, coming off the transmission control switch. My multimeter tells me it is only hot in the Key ON position. I can hear the relay click when I turn the ignition to ON Pin 2 is connected to a black wire that appears to be routed to the motor for closing the covers Pin 1 is a black wire that is connected to the Main relay pin 2 Similarly, the Main relay appears to be wired correctly The Aux relay appears to be grounded fine The headlamp motors do appear to behave correctly: Open when lights are turned on. Do not close when lights turned off. Close when lights off and Key ON. However, initially they didn't close until I jiggled the Aux relay connector, so maybe there's an issue there. However, I can still replicate a problem of hearing "clicking" when I connect and disconnect the negative battery terminal (with Key off) which remains puzzling to me. I do observe that the black wire running from Main relay pin 2 to Aux relay Pin 1 appears to be Hot. Which I think is right because it's coming from the "Normally closed" pin on the main relay? I'm wondering if anyone can confirm. Therefore, I'm wondering if the Aux relay I have is defective. It's obviously a replacement, and perhaps one of the now unobtainable replacements. I'm considering going with the mod of using the same style Main relay in place of the Aux per other forum posts to see if that corrects things. Does that seem like a reasonable next step? Finally, I do see that some of the wires running to the headlight motors have worn out insulation and a bit frayed which doesn't seem great even if not causing this problem. Does anyone have recommendations on how to repair these wires reasonably easily? Thank you, Tim

Thank you - I did obtain one of these, it has been very valuable.

Thanks all for the suggestions. Tom M - Re: The clicking relay, the key is not in the ignition, and I don't see any amp lights. Thanks for confirming those are related to the headlight motor, I'll try disconnecting that to see if it helps. In terms of troubleshooting the courtesy lights and blown fuse, it is quite a pain to keep replacing that... Kongaman is this what you're suggesting, so that I can reset the circuit when it breaks? https://www.jegs.com/i/RestoParts/759/CH30265/10002/-1 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Resettable-Automotive-Fuse-ATO-ATC-APR-Breaker-5A-Type-III-Thermal-Circuit-Reset-/172300875862 (I see there are also glass fuse circuit breakers but I couldn't find a 5A one) I'd been avoiding pulling the door jamb switches, that seems to be next step... thanks again, Tim

I have a couple (well more, but two I'm focusing on) of electrical gremlins was hoping to get some pointers on how to troubleshoot. Gremlin #1 is a parasitic draw and gremlin #2 is courtesy fuse blowing a couple of minutes after replacement. In terms of #1 - My battery drains after only a few days (4-5) of sitting. So i put my multimeter between the neg terminal and cable and I can see a draw of 0.424 amps when everything is off. Interestingly, when I do that and complete then break the circuit, I hear a clicking noise from an area near the battery, so I assume its related to the two relays up front. I attached pictures of those. Equally interestingly, during the troubleshooting exercise of completing/breaking the circuit the clicking stops and the drain stops. However, the behavior eventually returns. Looking for ideas on what the described behavior is, does this mean I've got a faulty relay, or loose connections. Could anyone recommend some troubleshooting next steps to further narrow the problem? Gremlin #2 - I opened the interior fuse panel and found the CSY-GLV CLK 5A fuse missing. Probably explains why none of my interior courtesy lights work . So I replaced the fuse, reconnected the battery. When I open the door, the rear courtesy light near the ash try came on and it could be operated via its switch. None of the rest of the courtesy light did, however, I can't vouch for the state of any of the bulbs. After a couple of minutes, the fuse blew. I repeated the exercise, blew the fuse again. For the record I'm using a Littelfuse AGC 5A fuse. What's the most likely cause of a blown fuse on this circuit and could anyone suggest what I do next to troubleshoot? Thanks in advance. Tim

FWIW here’s a picture of my ignition although not sure it tells much of a story (picture may be sideways). The behavior is as others described, can remove key in OFF position. Good news at least is my door locks share same key. Thanks all for the insight on this topic!

Thanks for the responses. I’ll snap a pic when I get a chance.

Possibly and odd and rather basic question, but here goes anyway. Looking at the 65 service manual it indicates there are 4 ignition switch positions. Section 10-32. (1) ACCESSORY, (2) LOCK, (3) ON, (4) START. My 65 appears to have 5 key positions. An Accessory position to left (Amp lights up on the dash), followed by 2 additional positions, then ON then START. Is the likely answer to this that the PO replaced the ignition switch with an aftermarket one that just has this additional position? It's not clear to me the behavior of the two positions between Accessory and On. Curious more than anything. Thanks, Tim

I appreciate all the advice here. I'm a week into owning this thing and already have a growing TODO list, will need to prioritize, I expect it to be a marathon, not a sprint. Obviously the car is far from original, but straight and clean and drives well, so I'll be focusing over time returning it to have at least all its original capabilities, if not original condition.