Brooklyn Beer
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Posts posted by Brooklyn Beer
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27 minutes ago, maok said:
While it maybe a carb issue, listen to old-tank's advice, systematically go through the ignition system. Only 80% of tune issues are electrical.
What is the timing set to?
I have absolutely no idea what the timing is but it has not been changed since it was running fine. I am 3-4 weeks new now to working on this car.
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4 hours ago, old-tank said:
Keep looking at the the ignition. Sudden performance issue are almost always ignition related, while slowly developing issues might be fuel system related. About the only carb problem that might be sudden is the float or float valve which might either be starvation from no fuel or flooding which in this case would be lots of fuel spilling inside and outside the carb.
Before I pull the carb off tomorrow for rebuild I am going to change the condenser and check the points one last time. It will start nicely now but won't idle except in a rough manner and wants to stall with added throttle. Just crack it off idle and it bogs down. (If you can call it an idle) Throwing brownish black soot and very rich at start up, fouling plugs. If the condenser doesn't sort it out I don't know where to look besides the carb. It is firing and starting very easy now like it did. Just running terrible and the carb looks to have seen better days honestly. I tightened every screw and such I could find. Can see where there was some seepage at some time. And while i thinking about it, best way to remove throttle linkage without screwing it up?
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Curious as if anyone has put a 2 barrel aftermarket fuel injection on an older motor like this before.
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It was running fine then started stumbling and breaking up. Thinking the same thing. But at least we got it started. That is a victory in itself.
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nope. Starter functions fine. The car is is at the point where it was before the starter issue arose. Rough idle, stumbling and barely idles, fouling plugs, won't take any throttle as it wants to stall and miss. I do have a spare condenser but the other one looks almost new. I was driving along, it started to miss and stumble, getting worse as I nursed it home the last 1/2 mile and now am at this point.
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OK. Ran test lead from hot side of carb switch, through test switch, and down to test lead onto S switch and starter. After a few tries it coughed, sputtered and fired up (if hesitantly Waited a minute and did same and it fired up on 2nd turn. It "idled" for about 10 seconds and quit. Rough and stumbling. Waited a minute and cranked again,.. and again fired on second turn and "idled" for over a minute before I shut it off as it was not clearing up. We are at the spot of where it was before the starter died. Exactly the same rough idle and it will not take any fuel in any way above this very rough idle. You give it a little throttle it wants to stall. But it does start nicely again. Going to go out and pull a plug to see if it is fouled again from getting it started. Plugs are new. Coil is new. Cap and rotor look clean and good and relatively new. Wires look new and clean. I had checked points and they are clean. Condenser looks fresh like everything else under the cap. Removed the ballast resistor when I installed 12 volt internally resisted coil. So really stumbling idle and won't take any throttle without wanting to stall. It was running rich at start up when I got the car and at idle from cold start would produce soot like nobodies business to the point the floor is stained black from the tail pipe. After warm up it would stop.
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8 hours ago, Ronnie said:
Here in Tennessee we would say that you live way out in the sticks.
Out my back door is where the Goodnight-Loving trail used to run.
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Middle of nothing is just up the road from halfway from nothing. We have more cows in population then people. About 6 miles from Springtown.
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15 hours ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:
Brooklyn, where are you located?
Beemon is correct, lets get this sorted before changing things. Assuming YOU are doing the work. Just checked and all parts stores have the 12 volt internal resisted coils in stock. Probably farm implement stores as well. Prices from $20 to $40. On line stores a little cheaper.
Bloo did a pretty good description, but I want you to do it this way, TAKING OUT OF SERVICE ANY "old" WIRING!
Unhook both wires at the carburetor switch at the carburetor.
With a test light in hand, turn the ignition switch on. Check the wires. One should light up the test light, one should not. Tape off the end of the one that does not. TURN THE IGNITION SWITCH OFF until the rest of the wiring is complete.
Go to a parts store and ask for a coil that is internal resisted, 12 volt. Ask for a push button switch.
Connect the hot wire, the one that lit the test light, to one terminal of the push button. From the same terminal, connect a wire to the + terminal of the new coil. Tape of the current wire going to the + terminal. Connect the distributor wire that was connected to the - terminal of the old coil to the - on the new coil.
Connect a wire from the other terminal of the push button to the s terminal on the starter.
Go ahead and remove both connections at the present ballast resistor and tape them.
All of this can be done temporally beneath the hood, being careful to keep any wire away from the hot manifold and the cooling fan.
Now start the car!
Let us know.
Ben
Got it. Won't be able to get back to it until maybe friday evening with the holiday rush schedule at work. I live about 25 miles NW of Fort Worth in the middle of nothing.
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anyone familiar with this ?
Delco Distributor, Lobe Sensor Module, Mechanical Advance Under Breaker Plate, 8 contact Cam; 12 Volt Negative Ground
$124.79 -
So if I understanding this correctly. Getting a "no resistor needed" coil (internally resisted) means no bypass would be needed to get 12 volts to the coil ? I am game for this.
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OK. I will look at one tomorrow. I guess then we just spice in a jumper of what was the ballast in and out with just a lead to the coil correct ?
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9 minutes ago, Ronnie said:
I assume you mean after you have installed the push button for the starter? If so I think that would work as a bypass but I'm not sure if you should feed the 6 volt coil like came on your car with 12 volts for starting or not since it says "No resistor required." If you are going to use a bypass circuit maybe a coil for a '57 Buick would be more appropriate?? I just don't know. Maybe someone who has converted from 6 to 12 volts will know.
I am going to install a 12 volt coil unless this will fry the internals of the distributor. But I did come across this in my research and maybe someone can tell me if correct "
NEXT some coils are labeled "12 volts for use with an external ballast resistor" and if so they are in reality a 6 volts coil in which case an external voltage dropping (12 to 6) ballast resistor is required or else the coil overheats and the points burn up quickly. A true full 12 volt rated coil (some call internally ballasted) is labeled 12 volts or else 12 volts NO ballast required,,,"
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9 minutes ago, Ronnie said:
The bypass circuit actually increases the voltage to 12 volts going to the coil when the engine is cranking and then the voltage drops to 6 volts through the ballast resistor when the engine is running. Read paragraph (2) in '57 Buick Ignition Description I posted earlier carefully. It explains in detail how the ballast bypass circuit works. I doubt your car had a bypass circuit with the 6 volt system.
Yes, I don't see it ever had one but should I add one now? I don't have a separate contact as described to go off to make a bypass. Would not a lead from the S switch work in the same manner? The bypass would only get power if the starter were to be engaged.
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1 minute ago, Ronnie said:
Maybe your coil is the problem if it's leaking. Since your car has been changed to 12 volts I thought you might could have a 12 volt coil that needed a bypass circuit for the ballast resistor when you were starting the car. I don't really know since your car seems to be a mixture of 6 and 12 volt parts.
I don't know what happens when you run 12 volts into a 6 volt coil but would suspect problems for sure. From what I read the bypass is just a simple lead off the starter S switch to the leaving side of the ballast resistor or directly to the coil correct? Just a limited shot of full voltage during start up that isn't needed once running and is done away with when starter is no longer engaged. So will get a new coil tomorrow and go from there.
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20 minutes ago, Ronnie said:
Say again.
Had a computer hiccup when posting I meant to say
Yep, 6 volt coil in BIG letters and numbers. Some oil seepage you would not see unless it was out of the car or you ran your hands around it as well . Don't see a bypass around the ballast resistor going to the coil for the voltage drop during cranking. Wonder how much voltage was leaving that 6 volt coil. What does 12 volts going into it cause it to do?
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Yep, 6 volt coil in BIG letters and numbers. Some oil seepage you would not see unless it was out of the car or you ran your hands around it as well . Don't see a bypass around the ballast resistor going to the coil for the voltage drop during cranking. Wonder how much voltage was leaving that 6 volt coil. What does 12 volts going into it cause it to do?
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Just now, Ronnie said:
Do you have a 12 volt or a 6 volt coil on the car now?
That is a good question ! I didn't look at that. Would it be molded into the top?
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4 minutes ago, Tinindian said:
How strong is your battery. Sometimes if it is even slightly low the starter will draw so much current that the coil doesn't always fire.
Battery shows 12.6 volts. It has been charged between work sessions.
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1 minute ago, JohnD1956 said:
Did you blow out the cylinders when the plugs were out? Or just put new plugs in.
Also, can you isolate your spark plug wires from each other and from any metal they may be laying on. It sounds to me like the engine is still flooded and the spark plug wires may be crossfiring.
No, I did not blow out any cylinders when plugs were out. Engine had sat for 3 days days without attempting to turn over until I got new plugs. Old plugs were definitely fouled. I will isolate wires as they are all loomed together but nothing touching metal.
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They look very good and I would even say new by lack of any dust or even discoloring. Every cylinder does show spark getting to it, just not all the time and with a weak indicator light at intervals. Some times on the same wire after going back and forth to other wires it is bright then dull. Again I am not sure how accurate those hold against the plug wire testers are.
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Well I have the starter working off a test switch until the wire shows up to run a new circuit. Now I am at another stage of the game to get it back running. I decided to change out the plugs being when I checked one it was fouled and sure enough they were all fouled. Looking at the plug that was installed I have no idea why it was because it doesn't cross reference anywhere. Champion RJ18YC. It shows a popular plug for snowblowers and lawn tractors. (???) Plus they were gaped at .35 instead of the recommended .25. So I just put in AC R45's gaped at .25 as I have seen cross referenced. Is there any reason why that that type of Champion plug might have been installed and gaped that wide? Anyway, the motor still won't even cough for me when turning over. It attempted twice to catch on one cylinder. I have my handy dandy spark tester of the one you hold to the plug wire and crank that throws a light. I do not know how accurate those are but I do show intermittent spark and a much varying degree of brightness of that test light going back and forth between plug wires as it turns over. Never stays the same even for each plug. I am holding it as close to the plug as I can get. Every cylinder fires but it looks to me not all the time. Again, I don't know how accurate these things are. I am thinking weak coil. Would any 12 volt coil do? Remember this whole saga started with the car starting to break up real bad out of the blue one day while driving after running, starting, and driving quite nice (if a little rich). I replaced the Ballast resistor already as it looked crappy. It is getting fuel. Pulled a plug to smell it.
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37 minutes ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:
It is OK, but lets get this thing running first. You don't need any more diversions.
Then contact me. I have a better way then the pertronix.
Ben
Yeah, I know. My projects always turn out growing in scope if I am not reeled in. New plugs should be here tuesday and I have a 5 day weekend all to myself and the cars. Starter button materials also coming. I tried turning over the starter 3 times with the stock circuit and at the end of the 3rd it wanted to hang up again but the key killed it this time. The test switch and starter functioned flawlessly though. Thanks for all the advice !
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on the note of chasing spark, anyone change out to a pertronix ignition system? What else needs to be changed to have it function ?
1949 Buick Road Master model 70 starter issue?
in Buick - Post War
Posted
Some carb pics. I do know this car sat with minimal use for 2 years and no use for 5 months before I bought it. Wonder if fresh gas broke something up. Have seen worse carbs then this one but don't know the history of this cars use.