[Buick pictures you may or may not like]

On the streets of San Francisco.

 

 

[Find the Buick]

[Find the Buick]

[Find the Buick]

[1950 Buick Riviera]

3 hours ago, daniel boeve said:

Or he or his brother bid it up to a certain level until a innocent real buyer takes over ...

 

Do you have reason to doubt what the seller posted in the eBay description?

 

"I will be asked why I am resisting this car. I am re-listing because the previous high bidder did not appear to understand how eBay auctions work. He did not pay the deposit and did not respond to communication and had (0) transaction history. That was unfortunate for me and now for him but life goes on." 

 

[Neil's '41 Super Model 51]

Transmission Dissection 

 

So today I got a chance to bring the transmission down to Don's place where he and another friend helped me take it apart, clean everything up, and diagnose any problems.  I'm going to let Don comment on all the technical aspects because I'm just a student here, but I will post a bunch of photos for now.  In a nutshell, as you can see from the pictures, everything inside the case was coated with a layer of black coke that should not have been there.  Don said it looked like it had been in a fire.  This made the disassembly a much longer process than it should have been because a lot of things that should have just slid out and apart required a lot of cleaning and punching to get out.  However, the great news is that apart from the terribly damaged front bearing, all the internals actually looked very sound once we had removed them and cleaned them up.  More later on theories as to what caused the failure and why it was popping out of third gear.  Here's a photo gallery for now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Find the Buick]

Yes.

[Find the Buick]

3 hours ago, Elpad said:

See a 53 up front and another Buick way back there between the buses

 

Good eye!  I didn't see the one in the back.

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[Buick pictures you may or may not like]

On 1/27/2020 at 1:57 PM, kgreen said:

I've never seen fender skirts on the 50's era Buicks, but I have seen convertibles driven in the snow.

 

What fantastic Victorian Gothic architecture!  Do you know where that photo was taken, Ken?

[Neil's '41 Super Model 51]

2 hours ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

 

 Me too! I do not see what could have rubbed against that bearing enough to wear like it did. I have mine out and don't see any thing in there. 

 

  Ben

 

Yes, it's a mystery right now and I'm not even sure we will be able to figure it out.  All I can tell you is that the snap ring that holds the throw-out bearing support in place was also very chewed up.  This photo shows the shards of the snap ring that fell out when we pulled the transmission out compared to a new, intact snap ring.

 

 

Maybe the snap ring popped off and the pieces were rubbing against the bearing?  The surprising thing to me is that it continued to work so well.  Other than popping out third, the transmission had no other symptoms.  No growling or other odd noises.  Go figure.

 

2 hours ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

Don and Neil, are you doing a video or pictorial of the repair?

 

  Ben

 

I don't know about video, but I will certainly post a bunch of photos of the job as we go along.  I'm not going to do a full on @Gary W, 😉  but I will try to keep you posted as well as I can. 

[Neil's '41 Super Model 51]

4 hours ago, valk said:

Speaking of gaskets, and I don't mean to steal Neil's thread, I'm trying to find an elusive engine leak (oil) that's driving me nuts. ... Could it be the gasket Neil referenced above?

 

Now that I understand your question better, I would say the answer is definitely no.  The only fluid that could leak into the area where the gasket is located between the transmission and the bell housing is gear oil.  If you know for a fact that it's engine oil that's dripping out of the bell housing pan, it must be the rear main seal as Matt suggested.  In which case Matt's other piece of advice is also good -- just learn to live with it because dealing with that problem is not something you want to contemplate!

[Neil's '41 Super Model 51]

41 minutes ago, valk said:

Speaking of gaskets, and I don't mean to steal Neil's thread, I'm trying to find an elusive engine leak (oil) that's driving me nuts.  I've crawled under there many times and it is not coming from the pan, push rod cover or valve cover.   I intend to remove the pans to really see what's going on but my fear is it is between the engine and transmission. Could it be the gasket Neil referenced above?  

 

Don't worry about stealing my thread, Peter.  Leaks are definitely part of what I'm trying to deal with, too, as I will explain below.

 

My first question about your leak, can you tell what's actually leaking, engine oil or transmission oil?   Although I'm still learning some basic Buick anatomy here, I think identifying the fluid is the first step to understanding where it's coming from.  Matt talks about the rear main bearing or the torque ball.  But unless I'm missing something here, those two areas are going to leak different fluid.  And if you've ever smelled the gear oil in the transmission or rear end, you know how different the gear oil is from engine oil.  The gear oil has, at least for me, a literally nauseating aroma.  The day that we took the transmission out of my car and I opened it up, I felt nauseous for at least two hours.  I asked Don about it, and he agreed.  In fact, what he said in his characteristic style was, "Neil, if you didn't puke into the gear box when you took the cover off, you're doing it wrong!"  Engine oil, on the other hand, has a kind of gasoline smell to it.

 

If you can collect enough of the what's leaking and stick your finger in it and then take a good whiff, you should be able to tell which it is.  Another suggestion I would have it that you take your car for a good drive to get everything heated up and then put it back in the garage after putting fresh cardboard down on the garage floor from the front of the car to the back.  Wait a couple of days and you should be able to see where the fresh drips are coming from.

 

Whatever your car is leaking, I doubt that it's due to a faulty gasket between the transmission and the engine.  One of the first places I would suspect based on my experience is the two holes in the side of the transmission case where the shift linkages exit the case.  My car was leaking a lot from that area.  I got new seals for those openings that we will be installing when we rebuild the transmission.

 

Okay, on to the leak problem I'm currently trying to diagnose as we do the present job.  As I referenced above, there's a pan under the bell housing that you can remove to get access to the clutch and flywheel.  Here's what the pan on my car looked like when I removed it.

 

 

According to Don, the bell housing on my car is "far and away the most filthy one I have ever seen."  (Not the good kind of superlative to hear, obviously!)  This area should be dry and relatively clean.  The fluid and gunk in here would logically be coming either out the back of the engine (rear main bearing problem) or out of the front of the transmission (transmission bearing problem).  In my case, we're pretty sure at this point that it's coming out of the transmission.  One, the stuff in the bottom of the pan is definitely the smelly stuff, and two, we already know that the front bearing on the transmission is a mess.  You'll see there's a little hole in the bottom of the pan to allow any accumulated fluid to drip out.  That's another area for you to check on your car.

[Neil's '41 Super Model 51]

2 hours ago, Bloo said:

so I'll bet there supposed to be a gasket.

 

Yes, that much I've confirmed.  I have a full gasket set from Bob's, and there's definitely a gasket that goes between the transmission and the bell housing.  I don't know why anyone would just decide to "make a gasket" and put that quantity of RTV in there.  One theory we have so far is that it may have been RTV getting into the bearing that caused it to fail.  I will be able to report more after Don gets a chance to inspect the transmission tomorrow.

[Neil's '41 Super Model 51]

Clutch Removal

 

I know this is just another day in the shop for many of you, but since this is all new to me I'm going to post some progress photos as I go along.

 

Here's a shot of the DIY screw jacks that I made to support the rear of the engine while the transmission is out.  This was Don's idea (of course), and turned out to be very easy.   Two lengths of threaded rod and four nuts was all it took.

 

 

Removal of the lower pan exposes the clutch and flywheel.

 

 

Once I got it out, the throw-out bearing support didn't look as bad as I thought it would be.  (However, I went ahead and ordered a new one anyway just to be safe.)

 

 

I did a little preliminary clean up work on the transmission case preparatory to taking it down to Don's tomorrow for the full autopsy/rebuild.  This photo also shows the disassembly of the rear transmission mount so that can be cleaned as well.  I was able to find NORS front and rear transmission mounts on eBay for a reasonable price.

 

 

That's all for now -- stay tuned for more reports.

[Neil's '41 Super Model 51]

16 hours ago, valk said:

Is that big *ss piece of wood your insurance policy? 

 

😁 That's actually my buddy Konrad under the car in that photo, and I'm not sure what he was using the wood block for.  I think he was in the process of putting some chains around the rear axle so we could winch it back with a come-along to separate the torque tube from the transmission.  As far as safety precautions, Konrad used to be a maintenance supervisor for United Airlines, and handle things like jacking up a 747 to fix the landing gear, so you can be sure that he had the car well supported before any of us got under there!

[Neil's '41 Super Model 51]

 

 

7 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

Is there any indication as to what caused the bearing failure? Incorrect installation? Wrong parts?

 

 

There is no obvious indication so far, but Don has only seen a few photos at this point.  I'm sure he will have some ideas once I bring it down to his place so he can inspect it.  The inside looks okay (at least to me, but I'm very new to this).  It's fascinating to see the innards and watch how it works when you shift through the gears.  The one thing that we noticed when we took it out yesterday was the thick layer of orange RTV between the transmission and the bell housing.  My buddy who was helping me thought this was an indication that whoever had been in there before didn't know what he was doing, and Don agrees.  I will report further after Don and I have had a chance to look at it together.

 

[Neil's '41 Super Model 51]

 

Transmission Removal

 

With the help of several very kind friends, we pulled the transmission out of my car today so I could deal with the problem of it popping out of third gear on a downgrade.  Not an easy job, but things went very smoothly and we had it out in about four hours.

 

 

I haven't had a chance to inspect things in detail yet, but here's a pic of the front bearing.  Anyone see anything wrong here? 😉

 

 

And here's a shot of the rear of the engine.  Again, things don't look quite right.

 

 

I will be taking the gearbox down to Prof. Don Micheletti next week for an autopsy/diagnostic evaluation .  After seeing it, I'm kind of amazed that the only symptom it displayed was popping out of third gear.  I will keep you all posted as work continues.

 

 

 

[What have you found interesting in your car?]

This is a really fun thread -- I love to read about these finds.  I don't have anything to contribute from my own car as far as "hidden" things I have found, but the car does have the original federal use tax sticker on the windshield.  I assume the decal "surround" for the sticker with the Gilmore Lion on it is a dealer promotion item from the dealer who originally sold the car.

 

[1949 Buick Roadmaster Riviera]

I imagine that you will get quite a response driving this rig around Cologne!  It looks great, and seems to be an ideal project with the heavy mechanical things already in order.  Please keep us posted on your progress.

[Old car bargains from around the Web]

Looks like a great deal for someone looking for a project -- that new wiring harness alone is worth at least a third of the asking price.

[1941 dual main Carters]

Yes, here's a heads up on what you are sacrificing by monkeying around with Buick's wonderful "Compound Carburetion" system (from the marketing folks, of course).  Apparently the 165 horse stock 320 with compound carburetion got lower gas mileage than the 107 horse 1940 single carb engine.  At least that's what they claim. 😉

 

 

 

PS: Peter, your car looks great under the hood (as well as every place else).  As I've told you before, I find it difficult to look at photos of it!

[Find the Buick]

I count five, but there are a few I'm uncertain about.

[Find the Buick]

How many?