LAS VEGAS DAVE

I think there is clearance but I will know for sure next week. Maybe I'll put the new tire on the front before I put it on the back and if it rubs I will trade the 750R16 front tires for a 700R16 or keep two of my present 650R16 tires on the front, hopefully the 750R16 tires will not rub, I'll post the final results. Even though they are a little over an inch taller than what I have it will only affect the clearance by one half an of that since the radius not the diameter is the measurement thats critical.

Kieth, your engine is turning 2839 rpm ay 65 mph with 3.9 rear axle, at 70 mph it will be 3058 rpm. This is calculated with a 30 inch diameter tire. Normally they are slightly less than that which means the rpm would be a little higher. If you install the 3.4 ring and pinion your rpm would be 2465 rpm at 60 mph and 2666 rpm at 70 mph.

You and I are the same. I would just keep saying to myself that I wish I had the bigger tires so instead of that I'll just get them and deal with the finances. I'll take some pictures after I get the new ones on the car.

I've decided that I want a bigger tire on my car then the size it has. The stock size in 1938 was a 650/16 tire, of course they didn't have radials back then. When I bought my car in June it still had the original tires on it which were 77 years old with only 18000 miles on them. Since I wanted to drive the car on a regular basis I bought new tires. I was told that Coker made a radial tire with a wide white wall that looked like a bias and so a set was purchased with new tubes and had the dealer that sold me the car install them before he shipped the car to me. Now I wish that I would have bought 750/16 instead of 650/16 even though it would mean that the car would lose points if it were in a AACA show. I don't care about that since I mainly just like driving the car. In any case the tires were 280.00 each and new tubes and taxes put each tire at about 325 dollars. I ordered a set of the 750//16 wide white wall tires today and they were even more, over 1600 dollars. If someone on the Pre War Buick site would like to buy the 650/16 tires I will sell all four of them with the new tubes for 600 dollars and ship them to you at cost. I paid eighty dollars to have my new ones shipped to me. The tires still are like brand new and still have the titties sticking out of them. The white walls are still flawless. I like the way the larger tires look as they will fill in the fender well better and give a slightly higher overall rear axle ratio.

I've decided that I want a bigger tire on my car then the size it has. The stock size in 1938 was a 650/16 tire, of course they didn't have radials back then. When I bought my car in June it still had the original tires on it which were 77 years old with only 18000 miles on them. Since I wanted to drive the car on a regular basis I bought new tires. I was told that Coker made a radial tire with a wide white wall that looked like a bias and so a set was purchased with new tubes and had the dealer that sold me the car install them before he shipped the car to me. Now I wish that I would have bought 750/16 instead of 650/16 even though it would mean that the car would lose points if it were in a AACA show. I don't care about that since I mainly just like driving the car. In any case the tires were 280.00 each and the tubes put each tire at over 300 dollars. I ordered a set of the 750//16 wide white wall tires today and they were even more. If someone on the Pre War Buick site would like to buy the 650/16 tires I will sell all four of them with the new tubes for 600 dollars and ship them to you at cost. I paid eighty dollars to have my new ones shipped to me. The tires still are like brand new and still have the titties sticking out of them. The white walls are still flawless. I like the way the larger tires look as they will fill in the fender well better and give a slightly higher overall rear axle ratio.

There is nothing wrong with babbit, its big drawback is when you have to replace it, at that time inserts would be much much easier. There are shops that specialize in babbit bearings, the cost is more than you'll like but to switch to inserts is also pricey. Babbit will most likely outlast its owner if the oil is kept clean.

Thanks for the replies so far, hopefully in a week or two we will get more. Not enough replies yet to make any conclusions other then so far the owners like their cars to much to think about selling them.

IF YOU FEEL LIKE REPLYING HERE ARE A FEW HOW OFTEN QUESTIONS. please answer by number 1 -- How often do you drive your Buick and what year and model is it? 2 -- How often do you change the oil and other fluids? 3 -- How often do you drive to places other than car shows or car events? 3 -- How often is it driven with at least one passenger? 4 -- How often is it driven on a freeway or super hi ways? 5 -- How often is it started but not driven? 6 -- How often is it driven far enough to require staying in a motel before returning home? 7 -- How often do think of selling it?

Terrific find for a Buick guy, LUCKY MAN

Realistically there are many things in the old car hobby as well as the rest of life that require a compromise. Gearing our old cars is full of compromise's. A modern car has a four, five, or six speed transmission, wether it's a standard or an automatic. The engines have plenty of power and its damn near impossible to overheat them. They will go a hundred thousand miles, a hundred miles per hour, and stop in a blink of the eye. Computers control the engine, transmission and even the brakes. They are great for getting from A to B and they don't use much gas. They all look alike, aren't much fun to drive and and have no soul. It's fun to try to keep our old cars running well and its fun trying to make them fit into todays world. Changing the gearing is one way to make them fit into todays world a little better but in reality they'll always be from a different era and they'll feel like that whenever we drive them, that's just one of the best part of owning one.

What I was looking for was a way to be able to cruise along at 60 miles per hour with the engine thinking its going 40 miles per hour and yet to keep the performance and hill climbing ability of the car with stock gears using the original motor which only had about a hundred horsepower. I don't think there is any way to do ALL of that except with an overdrive, with any other method there is a compromise in one of those expectations. Sixty miles per hour is not to fast for these cars and they can be driven like that with out any strain on the rest of the components all day if need be. Back when they were new there was no need for a car to cruise at sixty miles per hour, much more important to have enough power to be able to climb hills. Its just fun trying to do what ever we can to keep these old cars running decent and experiencing the joy of driving them.

Usually the maximum horsepower of any engine is right near its redline and the maximum torque figure is where an engine is in its sweet spot. When racing you wind up the motor to its maximum horsepower or slightly above and then shift but that's not the rpms you would cruise at. The highest torque rpm would be the best place to cruise at if possible. A couple of hundred rpms on each side of that figure would be ideal. In 1938 there were very few roads that a car could go 60 mph steadily on and there were very few cars that could do it. In 1953 if you could drive 65 mph you were hauling ass. Today 80 mph is the flow of traffic out here in the western states on the open roads and all new cars can cruise at that easily.

Ben when I was a kid I also drove them faster but if you consider that in 1953 65 mph was fast it really isn't that way today. Also we didn't drive them on long trips, at least I didn't. The fact is that at 65 mph a stock Buick Special engine is turning over 3400 rpms. I drove mine before I put in the overdrive at that speed and although it did it with out problems I didn't like it. It would not have liked driving to Los Angeles from here or any long trip at that speed. I stand by my opinion that 2200 rpm should be what to shoot for on a steady one, two, or three hour drive. If its kept at that and the oil changed every couple of thousand miles the engine should last longer than me. Ben, I would like to know what rpms do you think these engines should be at on a steady drive of an hour or two?

The fact of the matter is that either of the ratios (3.90) OR (3.64) that are rare as hens teeth to find are still not very helpful as far as a cruising speed goes and both of them make first gear closer to what it would be like starting out in second gear with a stock 4.44 rear axle. At only 60 mph the 3.90 would still require the engine to spin at 2759 rpms which is to high and with the 3.64 ratio the engine would be spinning at 2575 rpms which is also to high. This is at only 60 mph which is the minimum speed a car should be at if on a freeway, it would be better to be at 65 but the engines would be spinning even faster. A good speed for these engines is 2000 to 2200 rpms, those rpms were what the engines were designed to last at. Those are about the same rpms as the engine is spinning with the stock gears at 39 to 43 mph which feels great when driving a stock car. Sure the cars can be driven much faster but not steadily mile after mile. Even if the car has an overdrive 60 to 65 mph is all the car will do at a comfortable 2000 to 2200 rpms. The easy answer to everything is to stay off the freeways. The other answer is costly, approximately 2300 dollars to add an overdrive.

If a guy put an overdrive in a car that already had the 3.90 ratio rear axle gears he could cruise at 65 mph and the engine would be humming along at only 2090 rpm.To me that would be great cross country gearing.

Jeff, I had not heard of the Police Package but find it interesting. If the motor had a higher compression head of course its horsepower would be higher which would help with the higher gear ratio 3.90 rear axle. Even with a 3.90 gear rear axle ratio the engine would be spinning 2300 rpm at only 50 mph and over 2700 rpm at 60 mph which is faster than I would like at a steady speed. The police only needed the higher speeds for short distances and they generally weren't concerned with how long an engine or anything else lasted. The Century and Roadmaster even with their bigger engines and 3.90 rear axles still had to spin to fast in my opinion at a steady 60 mph. An overdrive is the best solution for the Special in todays world but was never offered by Buick on any of their models, Chevrolet was the only GM car to offer the overdrive as far as I know. Ford, Mercury, Lincoln, Chrysler, Plymouth, DeSoto, Dodge, Nash, Hudson, Packard, Studebaker, Rambler and others all offered the Borg Warner overdrives but no GM cars other than Chevrolet. The possible answer might be that GM was working on the automatic transmission and felt that was the future of transmissions. They even had the self shifter transmission in 38 but it was a one year option only and was never offered again. The DYNAFLOW was the next automatic Buick offered and that was about ten years later. I had a few old Buicks with DYNAFLOW transmissions as a kid and they were bulletproof. I used to love those old heavy Buicks with the straight eight and the DYNAFLOW transmissions, they just seemed to float along. I've added a new chart showing all three gear ratio combinations for anyone interested. Keep in mind the advantage of an overdrive over a higher rear axle ratio ring and pinion set is that it keeps the same 4.44 gear ratio if the overdrive is not engaged, this is good on hills or when pulling away from a light. 4.44 (STOCK) 3.90 (CENTURY AND ROADMASTER) OVERDRIVE (3.10) SPEED RPM SPEED RPM SPEED RPM 40 MPH 2094 40 MPH 1839 40 MPH 1462 45 MPH 2356 45 MPH 2069 45 MPH 1645 50 MPH 2617 50 MPH 2299 50 MPH 1827 55 MPH 2879 55 MPH 2529 55 MPH 2010 60 MPH 3141 60 MPH 2759 60 MPH 2193 65 MPH 3402 65 MPH 2989 65 MPH 2376 70 MPH 3664 70 MPH 3219 70 MPH 2558 75 MPH 3926 75 MPH 3448 75 MPH 2741

Personally I think the customer owes you for your labor up to this point and then it should be his decision and problem as to what to do with it. If he can't pay you then you should get the title and after that you can sell it, restore it, part it out, or do whatever to try to recoup your costs. It looks to me like it's taking up space and is a problem you wish you didn't have. I feel sorry for both of you and even for the car.

Before the overdrive was installed I once drove the car at 70 mph for a short distance to see how it felt, that's about 3700 rpms which is to high in my opinion for continuous driving. Even at only 60 mph which is the slowest speed I'm comfortable with if I'm on the freeway the engine was still turning more than 3000 rpms with the stock gearing. I think any continuous driving should be limited to 2500 rpm or less with these long stroke engines. Although the cars can go that fast with the stock gearing it would be much better not to drive them at any rpm over 2200 if they are going steadily mile after mile. I don't know what the gear ratio was in a 40 or 48 Buick but the 38 Special was 4.44 which is a very low gear ratio. The Century had a 3.90 I believe which is a little higher along with a little more horsepower to overcome the higher ratio . A 3.90 wasn't used by Buick in the Specials because the Specials didn't have enough horsepower and torque to move the car from a stop or up a hill with the higher ratio and still maintain the performance the factory wanted out of each model. The other models had the larger 320 cubic inch motors and they received the higher gear ratio rear axles to take advantage of the increase in torque and horsepower. There weren't any freeways in the thirties and the highest speeds cars traveled on even when on the best roads were normally under 50 mph. By the way a pusher fan is the least efficient way of moving air through a radiator and it actually starts to block air from going thru the radiator once the car is over about 25 mph. A puller fan lets as much air as the speed of the car dictates go thru the radiator before it is restricted by anything. A shroud is the best way to get the maximum amount of air to pull through the radiator if properly designed and fitted. If we drive our old cars in 100 degree temperatures we should expect that the cooling systems are being taxed to the max, any hill, traffic, tailwind, etc could be the straw that breaks the camels back so to speak. I remember my dad buying those canvas water bags that you hung in the grille hoping it would keep the car from boiling over. All the old V8 Fords were prone to overheating even on the cooler days. Cooling systems today have come a long way. Its almost impossible to make a modern car overheat, they can idle all day or pull a trailer up a long grade and the temperature rarely changes. In the days our old cars were made the drivers had to take into consideration many factors and adjust his driving accordingly if he wanted to be sure of his car not overheating.

I agree that a shroud would be a definite improvement when the car is idling. An electric fan if it was a puller instead of a pusher could also do a better job than the stock fan. I agree that an upgrade to insert bearings is indeed an upgrade. I've built many hot rods including some using the flathead Ford which was notorious for running hot. When building a hot rod the goal was different than restoring or maintaining an original car. On the hot rod pretty much anything that would improve the performance or the driving characteristics of the car was just fine. Cooler running, better brakes, steering, tires etc were all goals with originality taking a back seat. I loved building and driving the finished car and it was a reflection or lack thereof of my tastes and mechanical ability. On this old Buick that is my present obsession I'm trying to keep the car as visually and mechanically original as possible. If the car actually had a problem with boiling over even after the original cooling system was working as it did when it left the factory then I would add a shroud. As it is there is really no problem that adding a little coolant to the radiator if the temp gets hot enough for a little coolant to expel itself out the overflow tube can't remedy. Sure I would like it if the car would run 75 mph on the freeway for a couple of hundred miles at a time but then it would be like a modern car. I'm just as happy and maybe even happier just going along at around 60 and stopping more often in this old Buick. The challenge for me is to maintain the car to a degree where I think I've done as good a job as if I had taken it to a dealership back in the day on a regular basis. I compromised a little already by adding the overdrive. I realize that overdrive was available back then but it was not an option on the Buick and if one was added it would have to be done by a dealer or someone specializing in that conversion. I'm not sure if there was ever anyone that actually had it done back in 38. The compromise was worth it because in reality it was the only way I felt could drive the car at least fast enough not to be in fear of being rear ended if I stayed in the right hand lane of the freeway while at the same time feeling the motor wasn't being stressed.. Driving the old Buick requires more patience and paying more attention to all the gages than getting into my late model pick up and driving it. Thats what makes it fun. I take it for granted that when I get in the pick up it won't overheat and I'll get to wherever I'm going trouble free and when I get back it won't need anything other than more gas. Each trip in the old Buick is a mini adventure, I like that.

This morning here in Las Vegas it was only 70 degrees outside while I went for a drive in the old Buick. It seemed like a new car, this was the coolest weather that it's been driven in since I got it. Even at the lights it never quite got to 180, just mostly 160 driving and up 175 at the longest lights. I think if these cars were used in the cooler climates and with the traffic back in 1938 being sparse they probably did a fine job of running cool. Even if they were driven in warmer climates there was probably no traffic so they probably ran under 180, especially at 30 to 45 mlles per hour. This morning was a real pleasure to drive, the car also seemed to be more powerful in the cooler weather. After warming up the car I left at about 3am and drove around relatively empty streets until about 5 am when the first signs of drivers going to work started to appear. With the front windows down and the cool air filling the car along with it being still dark except for my headlights and the streetlights and the silence of empty streets allowing me to hear the tires rolling along the road it was great. I love how quiet the car is, I can barely hear the engine run when sitting at a light and I love the sound of first and second gear as it accelerates from a dead stop. I stopped at the cafe at the oldest original truck stop here in Vegas at a few minutes after 5 am to have breakfast and read the morning paper, as people showed up some wanted to strike up a conversation about the old car and the old days. The truck stop is on the old part of Las Vegas blvd which was the only road from Los Angeles to Salt Lake City back in the fifties. Jenz, I don't know where in Germany the 33 went but the guy that bought it was a collector.

Auctions are a different setting than anything else. Alcohol, egos, forced spontaneous decisions, are all factors that are involved with auction sales. These are not the normal factors driving prices in a typical sale. Many folks hear about the prices paid for a vehicle the same year and model as the one they own and often think theirs must be worth about the same only to find out that its not usually the case.

If it was mine I wouldn't powder coat the frame. For one, thats not original and has a different texture but for another powder coating has some drawbacks. I have power coated many motorcycle frames but don't do it anymore. Its easy for some powder coating to come off if there is the slightest bit of dirt or oil on a frame when its coated. Sand blasting does not always guarantee a perfect surface. If powder coating comes off in some small spot it looks like a piece of plastic came off and regular paint used to patch it will show. Unlike a car antique motorcycle frames are very visible so any imperfections stand out. There are many good paints available today that will do a better job and look more authentic than powder coat.

Thanks you guys, I am a lucky guy. My girlfriend and future wife is 49 years old (looks 36) and is the best thing that ever happened to me. She was a reporter in the Philippines. I am attaching a picture of her on our bike that we keep in the Philippines, the next picture is of one of my bikes here in Vegas that I ride. I think I am the oldest guy that is riding a V8 Chopper, it has 400 HP and I've ridden it 152mph. People say I'm crazy and they are probably right but if I want an adrenaline rush the bike is there and when I want some peace and just an easy good time at an even less than normal pace the Buick is there. I am really enjoying the Buick. The 33 Ford is one I bought in 1975 as a bone stocker. Since it was a 4 door it wasn't worth to much back then. Over the years I hot rodded it up with a hot rod flathead engine and juice brakes etc. A friend chopped the top in 1982 and I drove it until 2008 when I sold it to a fellow in Germany for a price I couldn't refuse.

I like the discussion about the water temps. Jeff and Ben I have always liked 180 as the perfect temp in all the old cars I ever owned. If they ran at 180 we were happy. My 38 Buick owners manual states that 160 to 180 is ideal and that 190 is fine if it is extremely hot weather, it does not say what temperature extremely hot weather is. If it is below 75F outside the car runs below 180 all the time, between 160 to 175, I like that because at a light it can go to 180 which is fine. The problem with my old car is that unless it is in the sixties outside, if the car idles it will slowly get hotter and hotter. If its in the sixties like sometimes it is at night it can idle for hours and it wont get over 180. Here in Vegas the days are still in the eighties so long lights make me nervous. Sometimes an ambulance comes and triggers the light and then they last twice as long. If its in the eighties outside the car will then creep to 180 plus before the traffic moves again, there is not much more of a window before the temps could go to 190 or above . If its in the eighties outside the car will then creep to 180 plus before the traffic moves again, there is not much more of a window before the temps could go to 190 or above . Also if the traffic is heavy it doesn't move very fast and stops often, it makes me nervous. By the end of this month it will start to drastically drop in daytime temps so it will be more pleasant to drive in the daytime once again. I drive the car pretty much every day. When I got the car it had only 18000 plus miles on it but I'm 73 and I decided to drive it till I can't instead of saving it as a low mileage car for someone else after I'm gone. Jeff as far as the hill going up to Mt Charleston goes I think I will be in second gear overdrive or third gear regular not overdrive. The overdrive gives me many options and makes driving the car really fun. In my opinion the best modification a guy can ever make to a 38 SPECIAL is add an overdrive. Its a pain in the a-- but it can be done in the driveway and its pretty straight forward. Maybe the Century or Roadmaster with the bigger engines and the higher gear ratio rear ends those models have an overdrive is not a big deal but in a SPECIAL it changes the whole driving experience. I put a 3.54 ring and pinion in a 1933 Ford rear end many years ago to make it higher geared but an overdrive is a much better option. I think I'll ride my motorcycle up to Mt Charleston first to get it fresh in my mind exactly how steep and long it is since I haven't been up there for a few years. Maybe I'll do that this weekend. As I drive the old Buick to breakfast every morning and then to what ever errands I have during the day, and the occasional trip around the lake its become obvious that its really a great old car, I wish there were some others around here but so far Iv'e not seen or heard of any.

Compared to you guys with the early thirties Buicks guys like me with a 38 have it really easy. I am in awe of the efforts you guys take to accomplish your projects.