wayne sheldon
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Posts posted by wayne sheldon
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Talk about disappointment. I read through the list, and saw that. Franklin produced a line of cars in that era that their marketing department called "speedster". A Franklin car that is "the only one produced"? I was hoping for something wonderful!
I am a "speedster" guy. Mostly model T Fords, but also other makes if they are properly done. Proper era "speedsters" can be factory built custom bodied cars, or home made creations from scratch. They can be original era kit cars, well done, or never quite finished. They were made to resemble real racing cars or expensive sport roadsters of their era. And many of them were actually raced on local fairground circuits.
However, the "speedster" era was dying by the mid 1920s! People and automobiles had grown up. People wanted their comfortable seats and full bodies. Besides, "real" racing cars were no longer crude cutdown chassis with a secondhand seat bolted on!
There were always a few people building racer-like speedsters out of cast-off chassis. Some people do that still today. But anyone building something like that Franklin is deluding themselves if they think it is anything proper era correct.
Franklin enjoyed(?) a short time popularity for cutdown cross country racers! But that was before 1920! (The last one I know about was raced in 1918)
Sorry for the rant. But I think antique automobiles should be about cars that really were done in appropriate eras. Even "speedsters" should be "era correct".
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The rumble seat cushion is missing.
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A little tough to be sure with so much of the car hidden by the fellow's wings. But I am fairly sure it is a 1930 or 1931 model A Ford roadster, slightly modified. The wheels are between about 1933 and 1937, and could have been after-market accessories or something adapted from some mid 1930s automobile.
Keiser31 just chimed in and beat me!
It looks like some sort of ceremonial dance costume he is showing off.
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I have been wanting to see what the model A was like! I kept quiet because I figured there may have been some good reasons for not putting too much out on the internet, and I was too far away to be involved.
It looks wonderful! I hope you enjoy it for many years!
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Certainly an interesting photo! He is moving, we can see the curve behind him, the bike is leaning for the turn. However, he is not going fast as little dust is being kicked up! It is clearly a dirt track or road.
It would be nice to know who it was, what was the occasion for the photo and all that stuff. Neat early motorcycle for sure!
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Mark W, It has been a long time since I heard that one! But boy did it make me laugh when I read your comment!
Yes indeed! I have heard old farmers call those "politicians"!
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And a couple other tire covers.
A couple of these have been seen elsewhere on this forum before.
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For you zepher!
Two photos of I believe the same car.
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I don't like it when people I know get that bug. Get over it quick! And get the rest you need to to recover fully!
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5 hours ago, m-mman said:
I am surprised that nobody has mentioned the “often used at the time” word - Coach. A 1936 Pontiac Coach…..
I don’t hear it very often these days.I like the word "Coach" for the body style. When I bought my 1925 Studebaker over 45 years ago, the local Studebaker authority informed me that what I had had originally been called a coach by Studebaker, and I have seen era advertising using that term. I often then and now refer to the car as a coach. However again, the word "coach" isn't commonly understood by a lot of people. "Two-door sedan" is the most widely recognized term for the body type regardless of the vintage or region in which it is being discussed.
Coach of course dates back hundreds of years in reference to horse drawn carriages. A "coach" usually had a fixed roof and a door on each side. Many of them had two seats, one front and one back. They usually faced each other so that passengers could carry on conversations while traveling. Horse-drawn coaches generally had the driver sitting up front outside, while the passengers rode inside in comfort. As automobiles developed, it became more practical to face all seats forward, especially since the driver was now inside and needed a front view regardless.
I think we should make a habit of interjecting the word "coach" in discussions of appropriate automobiles! "This car is a remarkable looking two-door sedan, often called a coach in its era."
Just silly me.
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21 hours ago, twin6 said:
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20 hours ago, twin6 said:
I am not absolutely certain, however, I think the Metz is a 1913 model "special roadster", a one year only model. The height of the rear deck is the detail confusing me a bit. A couple special roadsters I have seen pictures of had the rear deck a bit lower than this one. Most Metz roadsters had more of a low cowl than the special roadster and/or 1914's "speedster" model ("speedster is what Metz called their sporty no cowl car in 1914!).
The Cambridge windshield was offered as a factory option on all the Metz roadsters from 1912 through 1914.
The restored car pictured above is likely a 1913 also, and has what appears to be an after-market windshield. The 1912 Metz had the shift control lever outside the body.
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Personally, I would prefer this be called a "two-door sedan". That is the generally more common term for this style. However, being somewhat OCD about language, and often getting into discussions on the subjects of both antique automobiles and etymology, I did do some reading on this a few years back.
Marketing has for a very long time played with words and their applications. Calling this basic style a "coupe" actually does go back at least to the mid 1920s for a few automobile manufacturers. Examples of this have been shared by others on this forum in past years.
To know what General Motors or Pontiac were calling this style in 1936? One would need to look through a lot of their advertising from that time.
While I may have to accept the use of "coupe" for this body style due to SOME historic precedent? I would prefer people use the more commonly accepted term of "two-door sedan" for one simple reason. It avoids confusion. And that is the ultimate goal of language and communication, to avoid confusion.
But that is just my opinion.
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The price may be a bit optimistic considering a few apparent condition issues. But it is certainly not crazy high for something so unusual and mostly decent condition. It may still have wood structure (I am no expert on these modern cars!), that should be checked.
Don't worry about reposting special, unusual, or early cars. We don't see them often enough and anything special deserves a second or third look.
At least that is my opinion.
Thank you to all of you that have and take the time to find and share these ads!
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I have to admit that I enjoyed reading all the comments above. Just because I do like studying historic photos, and often run into fake photos, and because once in awhile I like to play the game? I looked the picture over for a couple minutes before moving on to already posted comments.
GM did build quite a few "Show cars", "Concept cars", and even a number of professional customs were built outside. I was fairly sure it wasn't an in-house real car. But I never made up my mind whether it was a real car or photoshop. If a photoshop, it looks well done. I can usually spot photoshop in a few seconds. (Although the technology IS getting better!)
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Interesting times, and so much history involved in them. Very few people in 1927 saw what was coming in such a few years ahead. The real meaning of the word "dictator" changed drastically. Albert Erskine who had been president of the Studebaker Corporation since 1915 at the death of company founder John Studebaker was an incredibly successful businessman full of hope for an even brighter future! He was growing Studebaker's position in the automotive industry by he thought leaps and bounds with acquisitions, new product lines, and a marketing program that included that simple word that was soon to change so much. In 1933, Albert Erskine, a broken failure in his own and other's eyes, committed suicide.
Studebaker the corporation did manage to survive for for a few more decades. But they never again achieved the financial greatness they had had before, in spite of many very nice and forward thinking automobiles.
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I don't know what it is? But I do not think it is an axle, at least not in the sense of wheels. And I do not think it is automotive. It might be part of a wagon brake shaft (I have one remotely similar?)
It also might be part of a mill stone shaft? That might explain the partial disk on one end that may have held the stone?
Intriguing anyway.
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Most Americans were oblivious to what was happening in Europe in 1930. Isolationism was in vogue. That Studebaker would choose such a name about 1927 is not all that surprising. The car "would dictate the road ahead", show other manufacturers "how it should be done!" Two years later, the world was changing fast. Alongside the Graham's buying Paige Detroit in 1927? It is a great example of very bad timing!
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Why? And just what is it you want? General Motors did use Jaxon steel disc wheels on several of their marques through most of the 1920s, and into the early 1930s. Chevrolet used a lot of them from about 1923, phasing them out about 1930 on most models. Oldsmobile used quite a few steel disk wheels during those same years. I have seen a few Oakland and Cadillac automobiles, and even a couple LaSalle cars with Jaxon wheels. Buick? As I recall? For as many cars as Buick built during those years, I have seen only a handful, probably less than five, Buicks with Jaxon steel disk wheels. Buick also offered wire wheels as an option for many years. By 1929, Buick began pushing the wire wheels.
A Buick expert needs to weigh in here. But I don't think Buick offered pressed steel "artillery" type wheels until about 1933 or later?
Your wooden spokes are likely not "oak"? Oak was rarely used for automobile wheels back in the day, as it is too hard and brittle. Oak under severe stress tends to break, almost like glass! MOST automobile wheels used Hickory wood. It is hard, but not TOO hard. It is resilient, and rarely breaks except from a collision of some sort. Accidents often can break wooden spoke wheels. Breaking wooden spoke wheels RARELY ever cause an accident unless the wheel has been previously and badly damaged.
Even pressed steel wheels aren't indestructible! I have seen dozens of them destroyed in accidents. And in my extensive driving past? I have had THREE modern steel wheels crack and break under normal use!
Wooden spoke wheels were NOT used because people then didn't know any better! Wheels were developed alongside automobiles, and engineered for strength, resiliency, and safety. Manufacturing technologies advanced, making pressed steel wheels cheaper than the labor intensive wooden spoke wheels. In addition, as speeds increased and roads improved, the stresses from higher speeds did marginalize the wooden spoke's practicality. Not likely your 1930 Buick can ever run fast enough for that to become a problem! Many automobile manufactures continued offering wooden spoke wheels as an option well into the 1930s because many people preferred them (mostly because they were used to them?).
Wooden spoke wheels can be rebuilt, if they have been damaged somehow, or otherwise aged badly. There are several good Wheelwrights around the country that do very nice work on antique automobile wheels. And if the original spokes are in good condition? There is no real reason not to restore them and use them. Over my years in the hobby, I have driven a few tens of thousands of miles on original wooden spoke wheels! They should be routinely inspected, to head of any aging or shrinkage issues. But otherwise, once used and proven to still be okay? They are generally almost trouble-free.
Welcome to the forum, and hopefully the hobby! Antique automobiles have an almost magical way of connecting their caretakers to history in general, and even an individual's own particular history. They can connect someone to so many parts of history and culture, and an understanding that nothing else seems to be able to match.
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Henry Winkler was an incredibly gifted actor, and artist extraordinaire! He, personally, was nothing like the Fonz character he played on "Happy Days". He just had a way of understanding and becoming his character in very believable and entertaining ways. I saw him on an interview show early in the "Happy Days" run, where he talked about the scene in the opening credits where he raises his hand while riding the motorcycle. He told how "Right about here I am crapping my pants in terror!" (I am sure he was exaggerating a bit?) He told how with the help of stage hands he got started and rolled about thirty feet before he lost control and hit something. But the segment was long enough and good enough to be used in the show's opening.
For me, I appreciate good story telling. Film history is another of my passions. I really enjoyed watching many of his other acting roles. I like a lot of his other characterizations much more than the Fonzy thing for which he became so well known. I felt some disappointment myself when he went into directing and producing, just knowing we would see less of his character portrayals. However, his natural talent directing and producing numerous films and tv work has entertained millions of people over the years. His occasional guest appearances on tv shows are still a treat. I have always enjoyed seeing him on tv talk shows (which I rarely ever watch!), when I have seen him on them.
There are very few modern era actors that I am impressed by in a positive sense. Most of them I think are spoiled brats or total idiots. But if I had a good opportunity to meet and visit with Henry Winkler? I would want to jump at the chance.
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Looks like the early days of the antique automobile hobby! Appears to be an about a ten to fifteen year old Cadillac touring car, very heavily used, missing the top, towing a home-made trailer carrying a very nicely preserved 1902/'03 Rambler!
I tried zooming in close, couldn't make out the state on the license plate, but I "think" the year was 1934 (but I can't be sure?).
There were a fair number of early collectors at that time. I wonder who it was? And where are those cars today?
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You should be aware also, that this particular time of the year is a "slow down" time for the forums. The last week of September are busy for many people getting ready for the great Hershey swap meet and car show! It is without a doubt one of the largest and most important antique automobile meets and gatherings in the entire world! And the first week of October is the meet itself, followed by several more days of travel and cleanup after the Hershey Meet!
A LOT of the people most active on the forums and a lot of the people with the advice you (or almost anyone?) desires are simply not available for over two weeks! So you may have to wait a bit, and then bump your inquiry back to the top of the list in a week or two to get the advice you seek.
Good luck!
Certainly, one consideration for you should be whether you would want to participate in local parades and such? And if your area even has such local activities? These replica cars can be a lot of fun for local parades if that is something you are interested in?
It all boils down to what you want? And what you expect from it?
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I should add, WELCOME TO THE HOBBY! And to the best forum on the web for antique automobiles! Wherever you decide you want to fit in? Good people here can help you find your way. There are forums especially for the so-called replica cars, I am not familiar with any of those myself. However, other people here are (I have read comments from them before!). If this isn't the best place for you? People here can help you find the place that is. And maybe, just maybe, you will see something here that will make you want to stay?
Automobile history is very important in many ways. It goes hand in hand with all that made possible the world we live in today.
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I do not like being the bearer of bad tidings. But these things are looked upon more as toys than automobiles. They are NOT historic vehicles in any real sense. They do have a following. People find them, restore them, and enjoy them. Technically, they ARE antique automobiles by definition, as they are over 25 years old and some of them were at some time licensed for limited use on public roadways.
Check the subsection of the AACA forums way down on the forums list;
https://forums.aaca.org/forum/98-factory-built-replicas/
There were several companies that manufactured similar replicas back in the 1950s marketed to a passing interest in nostalgia. Bliss was one of the better known companies, and manufactured hundreds of similar cars, patterned after several early automobiles. The "Curved Dash Oldsmobile" was the most popular model. In addition, kits and plans for building your own were also sold through popular magazines.
These things are a headache for antique automobile clubs as people not knowing any better find them and get sold on the idea of an antique automobile, often paying way too much for an undesirable vehicle. They are NOT early 1900s automobiles, nor do they qualify for the Horseless carriage Club of America or dozens of other clubs and activities set up specifically for EARLY automobiles.
They CAN be a lot of FUN! BE aware that "value" for these is VERY subjective! They show up often on places like eBay and Craig's list (probably facebook marketplace but I never look there!). Reasonable (???) selling prices can be anywhere from a few hundred dollars to maybe as much as $7000 to $10,000 (those would require something REALLY special!). Most good ones sell for less than $5000 in very nice condition.
Even back in the 1950s, sometimes these things did manage to get "Horseless Carriage" licensing. HOWEVER, even then, they DID NOT legally qualify for that licensing in most states, and such licensing was through error of DMV personnel that did not know their own rules. That factor has added to the confusion over what these things are or are not.
Know what it is, know what it is not. Know what you want, and what you want from it. Make an informed decision that works for you. ME? A hundred times over and over again? I would rather have and work on a real model T Ford than a fake curved dash Oldsmobile. But that is me.
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Wooded spoke wheels
in Parts For Sale
Posted
I don't know what those are off of. One Willys Knight hubcap, one Haynes hubcap. One wheel has some silly stuff on it, some sort of monkey business around the hub?
Drop center wooden spoke wheels are very unusual, and these would likely be for some car around 1930 to 1934 even. Possibly even a year or two later.
Several high end cars continued to offer wooden spoke wheels that late. Many people were slow to accept the (then) modern pressed steel wheels, and preferred the more familiar wooden spoke wheels. They were more popular then than they are today as an option. Although a few crazy people today like me actually do like them!
Good luck with the sale! I really do hope these find their way onto an appropriate car!
I would suggest editing your thread title to mention that these are very late wooden spoke wheels. People reading the current title will expect typical 1920s era Ford or Buick wheels.