[1937 Lincoln Willoughby V12 Limousine]

7 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

Bill, with the front seat likely being fixed in place

in a limousine, how is the legroom?  You mention

that you're 6'-2" tall.

 

Were they still using wood to construct the bodies?

 

For some reason that I can't see,

Lincolns are underappreciated in the hobby, so I hope

you enjoy yours and take it out where people can see it!

 

Limos are usually short on legroom. I think Jockeys must be the often chauffers. It is tight and seats are not adjustable, but I can negotiate it.

 

Don't know if the body is of wood. Can't tell. The flooring is wood,

 

I am surprised these are underappreciated. Seems an awesome car. The interior wood and appointments are exquisite! Similar in quality to my Auburn and Packard.

 

Though not have been run in about three years, fresh gas, clean carburetor, charged the battery and started and settled down with an even idle. However, I am not driving it until I get it on my lift and check things out very carefully.

[1937 Lincoln Willoughby V12 Limousine]

Just brought home a 1937 Lincoln V12 Willoughby Limousine. Am charging the battery and checking fluids before starting it. Seems that all is well. Appears to be a survivor in great condition. It was used by the American Ambassador in Sydney Austraila in WWII. General Douglass MacArthur used it.  Looking under the seat cushions for his corn-cob pipe. I very much like the coach-built cars.  One of 60 made. A massive car at three tons weight, with a 145-inch wheelbase and is about 6 foot 2" tall, like me, <grin> The engine is a work of art. 

 

Regarding the weight, I pulled it home on a triple axle trailer with my diesel dually pickup and could feel the weight!

 

Picture of my good friend, Jeff Knowles. He was Truett Cathy's car manager and this was one of his absolute favorites. My dog. Xander wants a ride in the back.

 

I love BIG. Will get more pictures later, but here is a start! BTW Can't find the AACA Willoughby Thread!!  <grin>

[Investments.]

I recently involved in the sale of a large collection of cars. I saw classic outstanding vintage cars nestled in with simple inexpensive cars in all shapes and condition. A massive collection of over 300 cars. There seemed to be no order, no theme. I talked with the manager, Jeff who had maintained these cars for about 24 years. This was the Collection of S. Truett Cathy, Founder of Chick-fil-a.

Jeff asked  Truett why he was buying so many different cars, and Truett responded, "For Investments." That made sense to Jeff. Investments in classic cars can often bring great rewards.

 

But Jeff noticed that Truett had bought a car and paid much too much. Very much more than the possible value. Jeff thought he should mention this "mistake" to Truett? Maybe Truett didn't know he paid too much? But Truett had brought a small restaurant into a multi-billion dollar business and Truett had told Jeff that he was buying cars as investments and this made no sense to Jeff.

 

Fortunately, Jeff needed to get some paperwork from the seller and the seller mentioned that Truett had really "blessed him." He went on to say that he had cancer. He was broke and could not continue treatments until Truett bought his car giving him enough money to pay his bills and get additional treatment and he was now cancer-free.

 

Jeff realized that when Truett Cathy spoke about investments, he meant investments in people. The money flowed as well, but Truett Cathy's business was based on investments in people.

 

Think about this if you happen to be in a Chick-fil-a restaurant. It is an enjoyable place for happy employees serving an experience. People connecting with people. It pays great dividends.

 

Investments.

[Headlight lenses changed by time and sun]

Thank you, especially, Rusty. Fascinating!

 

Another aspect of the history involved in our antique cars. Understanding gives me an even deeper appreciation of our "Time Machines."

 

Often I sit in one of our antique cars. Looking through a windshield where people have sat for tens, scores and even a hundred years, smelling the "old car smell" of leather, faint tobacco;  better knowing the Past custodians who lived in a different world. I feel the honor of being a present custodian of these vehicles that were such important to people who rode in them. A brochure about our 1920 Cadillac remarking the "side flaps inside the doors where ladies could store their hats, veils and party attire..."

 

Sometimes I sit in our 1914 Model T. THE car that put the average American on motorized wheels. The roads were non-existent in many areas. People were able to speed along up to 30mph in a good flat road, but usually much slower. 

 

My wife and I take back roads in our antique cars like our cars have done by their previous owners. We can smell the scents. See every blade of grass. Wave to all the people sharing the rich history of the past, and each other. Stop and talk with people when we stop for gas, for food, just to stop and just enjoy each other. Wave and share thumbs ups. 

[Headlight lenses changed by time and sun]

I like the color. Have also seen on old glass insulators.

[Car colors for high end Families?]

26 minutes ago, GregLaR said:

That's pretty cool to find a 40 year old add for your current car. 

ALSANCLE who is a member of this forum and posted this ad. Networking is great!!!

[Car colors for high end Families?]

Fran Roxas did the restoration. Maybe I can find him to research his records.

[Headlight lenses changed by time and sun]

Someone said it was due to chemical changes in the glass. Maybe about manganese(?)

 

[Headlight lenses changed by time and sun]

I have heard that our  1920 Cadillac Touring car lenses are changing lavender/purple after having been exposed to sunlight for the last 97 years. What a sweet gentle old age.

 

Why, if so?

[Car colors for high end Families?]

alsancle Sent me an ad in 1977 advertising my 1934 Brewster. It appears that the color in 1977 was black with a polished aluminum hood. I wonder what color it was when it was made?

This is one of the great things about collecting and learning and how we support each other.

 

[1934 Brewster Town Car]

4 hours ago, MCHinson said:

 

Actually he has been banned quite a few times over the years under different user names. 

 

In this case, he lasted longer than normal because nobody apparently reported his inappropriate posts. After he posted a few that drew moderator attention over a short period of time, some additional checking revealed his old pattern of inappropriate posts, he was identified, and banned again. If you see someone who is constantly posting inappropriate posts, please report it to the moderators so we can avoid this type of situation. 

 

 

So let's get back to beautiful cars and friends who love them and enjoy each other.

 

[1934 Brewster Town Car]

20 hours ago, Grimy said:

SaddleRider, we all know by now your pride in Packard engineering--now that you have changed your car's unfortunate stock 4.69 gearing, but please do not denigrate other members' choices in cars because doing so makes you appear mean-spirited and petty.  I also object to your comment in CCruz's thread on his 1953 Ford horn issues.

1

 

I appreciate your post. I had "ignored" Saddle-rider since his remarks early on and therefore was not able to see any more regarding his posts. 

 

However, he has been banned.

[1934 Brewster Town Car]

14 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

Sitting behind the wheel of a '58 Cadillac convertible for the first time makes one think, what is vaguely familiar. Then it hits you. You just thought of St. Louis!

 

Or, for the last 30 years, whenever I get out of a Silver Cloud, Rolls not Reo, I smile and say "Yep, a Buick Roadmaster is a darned nice car."

 

That's what makes them fun. There is a Brewster project car for sale at a hot rod shop somewhere around Boston. I know one thing for sure, if by some stroke of fate I end up owning it I ain't tellin' nobody on the forum. Except maybe Bill.

Bernie

 

I love quality open cars, especially Cadillacs, hope you enjoy some of our collection
 

[1934 Brewster Town Car]

On 11/7/2017 at 4:31 PM, 60FlatTop said:

 

 

 

[1934 Brewster Town Car]

6 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said:

Not knocking Ford, they were a popular car known for having the best performance in the low priced field and the ability to travel long distances at speed thanks to their V8 engine. Even though the suspension and brakes were primitive even by 1930s standards. This is why it puzzles me that they chose this chassis for a luxury car meant for city use.

 

I am curious also. But cannot find any solid reasons. Might Ford have been a silent partner? Inskip, head of Brewster built a car for Al Jolson, who was an avid car buff and one of the most important figures in entertainment, Brewster got a huge amount of free publicity.  

[1934 Brewster Town Car]

18 hours ago, Mssr. Bwatoe said:

Packards, Auburns Lincolns, Duesenbergs are awesome, many of us also fancy Mr Ford and his group, 

I can admire without the mean spirited anti Ford talk...Ford was king of the low price field..Brewster

 should have put it on a Zephyr chassis...as Edsel did in 1940 for his personal use and a few of his friends, cost was kept low by pulling a few 

stock Lincoln-Zephyr chassis off the line....

 

I have great admiration for Henry Ford. He put America on wheels. The Marvelous invention the Model T and succeeding generations.". My Model Ts sit cheek by jowl with my Senior Classics.  I love them ALL. Each car has its own personality. I love them ALL!

[1934 Brewster Town Car]

9 hours ago, SaddleRider said:

 

I cant help you on a recommendation to get your Packard and Auburn into acceptable shape.   I am near the west coast,  where there are still a couple of shops capable of returning cars of the 1930's to an acceptable condition.   May not be cost effective for you to ship your Aburn and Packard out here,  where I most certainly could give you recommendations for quality and competent people ( they aint cheap...they don't have charity licenses with COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES DEPT. OF SOCIAL SERVICES.....! )

 

Again,  if  your cars are such that a 1935 Ford gives you a more pleasurable driving experience than an Auburn or Packard - well...you have my sympathy  - you are missing so much.!

 

You are in error if you think a modern high tech shop would find a large, powerful luxury car of the 1930's  "low tech".  

 

For example...there is no "OBD II" computer port to tell the "replace the parts types "  what was wrong.    Perhaps the brake linings are of the wrong "co-efficient of friction".  How many "hi tech" modern shops have techs. who understand the workings of the power brake system of a big "super-luxury car of the 1930's?  Or know how to set up the brake shoe clearances?   Or even know there is such a thing ?

 

Good luck on your quest to learn more about the differences in driving pleasure  between a 1935 Ford and your other cars, once they are properly restored mechanically.

when I said, "low tech" I meant not having OBD, Computers, mobile phones, GPS. Our 25 cars are driven often from 1914 Ford Model  T to our (newest car) 1960 Cadillac Eldorado Biarritz. Each car is different. The 1920 Cadillac is different than the 1933 Packard. The 1935 Auburn Phaeton drives superbly. I have been maintaining them and have over 60 years working on cars. I suspect from your remarks that you have not driven a 1920 Cadillac or 1933 Packard? Or 1935 Auburn Phaeton? Or 1937 Lincoln Limo? Or a 1934 Brewster? 1947 Lincoln Continental V12 . 1956 Cadillac CPD? 1958 Cadillac Eldorado Biattitz? I am getting bored. <grin> but let us know your knowledge about the differences in them, inquiring minds want to know.

[Car colors for high end Families?]

7 hours ago, poci1957 said:

 

Don't get your hopes up.  I can't speak directly for Cadillac but the production automakers have all been getting away from special order colors for years as they are very inefficient to deal with in production.  At Ford they have a limited number of pre-approved special colors that are available for special order on some trucks and police cars.  I think the current minimum is 25 units before they will produce them due to the need to set up a batch in their paint system and only available at certain plants.  So if you order, say, one orange truck and no one else in the country orders 24 more for that plant then they are never built. 

 

This is also one reason you don't see many two tone new trucks anymore, each two tone had to go through the paint shop twice and be masked off between colors, so they are now only generally available on higher end models at extra cost.  Even the old police car black and white scheme is no longer available as a painted finish; if you see a factory black & white on anything 2012 or newer the doors and roof are a vinyl overlay, Todd C

5

 

Chuckle. Ford and Brewster were totally different animals. From Brewster, and i quote:

"Brewster kept a record of each family’s family crest and colors, which would be applied to subsequent bodies ordered through the firm. J. P. Morgan's was dark bottle green, the Vanderbilt's, a special maroon, and the Astor's and Stevens' two different shades of blue. Some families had two sets of colors, a darker one for the closed winter car and a lighter color for their fair-weather touring car. Brewster reserved certain colors for the exclusive use of each respective family, and new customers often had a hard time selecting an “available” color.'

"In the December, 1921 issue of Autobody, the magazine described the scene in Brewster’s paint department: "The extent to which the demands for exclusive family colors is carried can befit be appreciated by a visit to their [Brewster's] grinding room where there are on exhibition several thousand small panels, each bearing the color of some customer, different at least in shade from that of any of its neighbors. Many Brewster automobile bodies today carry the same colors as the ante-bel­lum carriages of the owners' ancestors."

"As the interior appointments of the vehicle were very important to each and every customer, Brewster provided room on each order form for the size and weight of each customer, and just as importantly, their chauffeur. The seats could be ordered in a virtually endless combination of styles, colors and materials. Even the density and size of a cushion’s internal springs was optional. Cabinets and interior accessories were available in an equally endless variety of materials, styles and color combinations. Each vehicle was truly custom made to suit the par­ticular requirements of each customer."
 

Ah, so what, it is more likely Brewster would more likely had specific paint colors available than Ford, Cadillac,  So I will keep looking. But I don't be worried about having my hopes dashed. Life is the fun of the Journey...  And I am having a blast!!! BTW My Ford parts are all black.

[1934 Brewster Town Car]

4 hours ago, wayne sheldon said:

I like that quote:   "My opinion is that Tiffany was the Brewster of Jewelers!" I also like the song.

 

A bit modern for my liking, but an incredible car any way I can look at it.

Just a bit of speculation on my part. Doubtless, Brewster built these cars as an offering to provide themselves with an additional market during tough times. I would think that they would have chosen the Ford V8 as the perfect balance of price and power. The V8 had plenty of power and performance to handle the weight of the incredible body. But can you imagine that on a Plymouth or Chevrolet six? And before anyone starts throwing darts at me, for a newer car, I love Chevrolet's cast iron wonder. If Brewster had moved up to even a Buick eight? The increase in cost at a time when cost was a serious consideration, would have been too much for no real gain in power.

Just my opinion.

 

They also did make a few Buick Brewsters. 

 

Another reason was that Ford has always been hugely popular. Brewster owners could let the Depression Broke, most everybody, I imagine the rich people should hide their Packards and Rolls-Royce. Brewster owners could say they had a Ford in a new dress.

[1934 Brewster Town Car]

4 hours ago, W_Higgins said:

 

It's been awhile and I can't quite remember, but I don't think it was catastrophic so as to render the car inoperable.  It was popping out of gear or the syncro wouldn't cooperate or some such.  I'm aware of another heartshaped Brewster that had the same ailment, so it leads me to believe maybe the transmission is a bit undersized for the application given all the add-ons.  Maybe it's a common EV8 ailment, I don't know.

 

 

 

 

Will check with some of my early Ford V8 friends.  Thanks for the heads up. Hopefully, the other Brewster was an exception.

[Car colors for high end Families?]

5 hours ago, GregLaR said:

Bill, as this car was originally owned by Ms. Pons, I think it would be safe to surmise the light blue was not a "family color" but rather an "available color".

By the way, great car!

 

 

Maybe she liked blue. She was French American, French have a long time affaire with blue

 

Bleu de France (Blue of France) is a colour traditionally used to represent France. Blue has been used in the heraldry of the French monarchy since at least the 12th century, with the golden fleurs-de-lis of the kings always set on a blue (heraldic "azure") background. A brighter version, based on the blue of the French Tricolour, is used in modern times, particularly in a sporting context. French national teams in all sports will normally use blue as their main colour.

Blue is France's national racing colour, therefore several French motorsport teams have used it, including Alpine, Amilcar, Ballot, Bugatti, Delage, Delahaye, Gordini, Ligier, Mathis, Matra, Panhard, Pescarolo Sport, Prost Grand Prix, Rondeau, Salmson, Talbot-Lago, Voisin. 

[1934 Brewster Town Car]

On 11/1/2017 at 12:50 AM, Rusty_OToole said:

Wonder why Brewster picked the Ford chassis when it was about the worst in the industry with primitive suspension and brakes. They could have picked any number of cars with better suspension, better ride and better brakes. The only feature Ford had was the V8 engine, and that was no advantage in this type of car.

 

An answer was that Brewster made bodies.1934 was still suffering the aftermath of the Depression. No money! I think that Brewster decided to make a very cheap car and chose a reliable, easy to fix, anywhere Fords were available. Once the owners got back on their feet, they could have bodied with a high-end chassis. Or not. Back in the oughts and 'teens, people often did re-body cars. I guess that Brewster would carry forward the tradition. The bodies were originally specifically made for the owners down to minute detail. .Brewster had a measurement of each person - and their chauffeurs - so they tailored the seats to customer's weight, height, arms, and legs. It was like buying a suit from a high-end tailor. So carrying the body forward in time as technology improved the chassis, was a very good idea! The car/body fit you like a glove. There are no adjustments on our car for seat adjustments.

 

The cars were painted as to Family Lineage. Rockefeller cars, like their carriages before, were a particular shade of maroon. Our car is blue from the John Jacob Astor Family. The 'average' person could NOT buy a car in any of those colors.

 

Brewster Quotes:

“You're the top! You're a Ritz hot toddy. You're the top! You're a Brewster body.” (You’re the Top - copyright 1934 Cole Porter) With those two phrases, songwriter - and Brewster owner - Cole Porter immortalized the New York City coachbuilder in his hit musical “Anything Goes”. The song was introduced by Ethel Merman and William Glaxton in the 1934 Broadway production,

 

Edward King, the well-known manager of New York City’s National Horse Show, was once asked whether he considered Brewster to be the Tiffany of carriage manufacturers. He replied: "My opinion is that Tiffany was the Brewster of Jewelers!"

 

GOD, what a car!!!

 

Did I mention that we also acquired an 1848 Brewster Carriage in Maroon with red pinstriping? Rockefeller colors? Who knows.

[1934 Brewster Town Car]

On 11/4/2017 at 8:27 AM, alsancle said:

Car is great - congratulations!   I wonder if the cane work was done originally?

 

This thread makes me feel that we should have a Brewster one going down in the CCCA forum.   

 

Cane was redone. See the picture explaining the complete restoration.

The cane was originally applied with thick paint. Two people held a straightedge and a master pinstriped applied the paint with something like a pastry bag with a 1/16th nozzle. The work on my car is hand done over the laquer body paint. It is beyond amazing!

 

[Car colors for high end Families?]

Quote from Coachbuilt Cars

Brewster kept a record of each family’s family crest and colors, which would be applied to subsequent bodies ordered through the firm. J. P. Morgan's was dark bottle green, the Vanderbilt's, a special maroon, and the Astor's and Stevens' two different shades of blue. Some families had two sets of colors, a darker one for the closed winter car and a lighter color for their fair-weather touring car. Brewster reserved certain colors for the exclusive use of each respective family, and new customers often had a hard time selecting an “available” color. Master painter Theodore (Ted) Proudfoot, handled the majority of Brewster’s pin striping as well as their crests and hand lettering.

 

In the December, 1921 issue of Autobody, the magazine described the scene in Brewster’s paint department: "The extent to which the demands for exclusive family colors is carried can befit be appreciated by a visit to their [Brewster's] grinding room where there are on exhibition several thousand small panels, each bearing the color of some customer, different at least in shade from that of any of its neighbors. Many Brewster automobile bodies today carry the same colors as the ante-bel­lum carriages of the owners' ancestors."

 

We have a Brewster that is light blue paint. What family could have this color in their Family Lineage?

[1934 Brewster Town Car]

10 hours ago, W_Higgins said:

They seem prone to break the intermediate gear thrust washer in the transmission.  Just be mindful of that should it act up on you.

 

 

 

What should I watch for?