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nzcarnerd

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    Are Rare Cars Best Preserved in One Collection or Spread out Amongst Several

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    12 hours ago, wayne sheldon said:

    Zepher,

    Any solid ideas of how many Rickenbackers do exist? How many basically intact and decent, running or not? How many incomplete and rough? I know the one I saw about fifty years ago belonging to a friend of a friend was one of the largest and rarest of the marque. But all of the ones I have seen have been very interesting cars! The marque has always fascinated me.

    I have no idea how many Rickenbackers exist today but there is one right hand drive example in New Zealand. Been here since new as far as I know. The first pic was taken in 1961 and the other in 2015 - 

     

     

    24 Rickenbacker Harry Sarchett Blenheim Easter 61.jpg

     

     

    24 Rickenbacker in 2015.jpeg

    • Like 1

    Period images to relieve some of the stress

    in Period Photos - Pre WWII

    Posted

    4 hours ago, LCK81403 said:

    Any Chevrolet folks know what the story is with the 1934 Chevy dealer photo?  A sign says open for business Chevrolet and Ford (kind of surprising that), with both cars being what appears to be 1934 Chevrolets.  One car, however, has wire wheels while the second car has pressed steel wheels.  A 1934 Chevy advert shows all models having wire wheels, and a 1935 Chevy advert shows all models having pressed steel wheels.  Yet a well documented 1935 Chevy Standard Coupe has wire wheels.

    34 Chevrolet ad.jpg

    34 Chevrolet ad 001 models.jpg

    35 Chevrolet ad 002 line illustration.jpg

    35 Chevrolet Standard Coupe 001 01-05.webp

    Aftermarket wheels - General Jumbos or similar? Size possibly 9.00 x 13?

    Are Rare Cars Best Preserved in One Collection or Spread out Amongst Several

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    On 12/12/2021 at 4:23 PM, wayne sheldon said:

     

    And I didn't read it as being limited to Chadwick. Your question has had me wondering how many marques are out there with between three and ten survivors? A "one of one" of course can only be all in one place? A one of two isn't much different.  And once you get into makes that at least a hundred exist? The questions change a bit. So many marques we can only wonder how many exist. My Paige for example. Grimy has one. I have only seen maybe twenty of them myself in over fifty years. Are there a hundred? Five hundred? More than a thousand maybe? And I have never heard of anyone making a specialty out of them. And there are nearly a hundred marques like Paige. 

    But what about the makes with even fewer cars. Those of us in the know consider Chadwick special because of its almost unique place as one of the most monstrous and powerful (relative to its time) production cars ever built! What about the Daniels? Certainly special in many ways. Exceptionally stylish and attractive. But not really all that significant historically speaking. There are maybe four times as many surviving Daniels automobiles than there are Chadwick. Biddle would be another that only a small number survive (I know one owner, and know of another). But how many are there?

    The Nickel Age club I used to tour with (and hope to do so again!) one time had four Marmon automobiles on a single club tour! That I don't think happens very often. We also had two Wills St Clair on one tour! And please, do NOT let me forget to mention Rickenbacker! I have personally seen four of those over the years, and known of a few others, yet I doubt anything near a hundred of them still exist? I used to have a 1922 Sayers touring car. I know they built about two to maybe three thousand regular automobiles total, but I never ever saw another one.

    So very many makes of cars for which relatively few were built, and very few still exist. I wonder how many Locomobiles exist? And how many of those are basically roadworthy?

     

    So much to wonder about.

    On the subject of Paige, here is what is probably the only one like it. It is a 1922 car but has the braked front axle from a 1924 model. I met the owner about 25 years ago and he 'admitted' it has a five speed gearbox from a Toyota light truck to give it highway cruising ability. This photo is from the 1990s. More recent photos show it with the same size wheels all round. I think those may have been fitted for the big tour - several thousand miles - it did then.

     

     

     

     

    22 Paige at Tirau 1998 Sath Flkr resize.jpg

    Are Rare Cars Best Preserved in One Collection or Spread out Amongst Several

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    16 hours ago, edinmass said:


    One of my favorite things in the hobby is walking into a garage of collection and seeing something that is “new” to me. After all these years, they tend to be the “middle priced” cars..........all of the big horsepower stuff is seen regularly. The 1916-1928 era of mid priced off brand cars is really a unique spot in the hobby. Sadly we rarely see these fine built but unusual cars at shows or on tour.

    Here is a good example of what you are saying. The green car in the back is a 1931 Studebaker President Four Seasons roadster (and a CCCA classic?). Combined with the very similar 1932 models there are more than 100 surviving examples. There may be more if any unrestored ones are counted. The red and white roadster is the lowest price model in the 1931 Studebaker range (it was priced at $895 at the factory vs about $1900 for the President). It seems there may be only about four of them surviving. That car has changed hands since that photo was taken in 2012 and now lives a few minutes away from me.

    31 6STUDE at Wanganui Sath Flkr Jan 2012.jpg

     

    Because there are no surviving production records for pre 1935 Studebakers it is hard to guesstimate how many of any body style were built, but it reasonable to assume that roadsters and cabriolets constituted a small percentage of the total with lower and mid price cars. 

     

    I have probably posted these before but out of a total of around 20,000 Third Design Model GE Dictators that Studebaker built in 1928 there were probably less than 1000 cabriolets. (The top doesn't fold so it is really a 'faux cabriolet'). Only two are known to have survived although there may be another couple put away somewhere.  Mine is badged as a Director, is right hand drive, and as its has it golf bag door on the right, it leads me to think they did not do a right hand drive version of the body. It does have the rumble seat steps on the correct side though. As I noted in the previous comment it has a known history - it is one of only two imported to NZ - and I have a copy of its original registration document. It has body number 437 so they built at least that many. The other one in the US was restored to concourse condition but has changed hands and hopefully gets out occasionally. I think as it was found abandoned on an almond orchard it history is unknown.

     

     

    vauxnut Flickr vcc coffee and cars 150821 resize.jpg

     

     

    69809804_120900725916704_2753608047199780864_o (2).jpg

     

    Here is a good example of a rare mid-price car, a 1929 Graham-Paige 827. One of six built in this style apparently - or is it one of six known survivors? - I think it is in Europe now - 

     

     

    51601796466_075f522ce4_o resize.jpg

    Are Rare Cars Best Preserved in One Collection or Spread out Amongst Several

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    On the subject of the original question there have been several highly publicised fires in large collections which have taken out 'only known survivor' vehicles. Just a few examples are the von Raffay collection in Germany in 2015, the National Motorcycle Museum in England. and the motorcycle collection on the mountain top in Europe somewhere. Even private collections lost in forest fires have likely taken out some 'unique' vehicles.  

     

    Buffalowed Bill in a comment above bemoaned the breaking up of a Hudson collection but I guess but I guess we as humans have a finite life where as cars can last much longer, even if in different hands.

     

    To quote 58L-Y8 in another comment above - "To the original subject, attrition is a relentless, indiscriminate process that touches all things.  Human efforts only try to forestall the inevitable." Very true.

     

    I know a local collector who currently has his collection in three locations but has apparently purchased a large commercial building to keep his collection in, and possibly open it for display. I hope his fire protection is good. He has some relatively rare stuff but possibly not very many which are the only known survivor.

     

     

    Are Rare Cars Best Preserved in One Collection or Spread out Amongst Several

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    1 hour ago, 1937hd45 said:

    Four the record it is nice to have the original engine in the chassis it left the factory with in a prewar car. Is there one person that we can credit with inventing the "Matching Numbers" obsession? I've always thought it was a way to add value to mass produced Detroit iron, and make that one in 150,634 produced somehow different. 

    When did the US industry start making card with matching numbers? By that I mean where the last three digits of the engine number are the same as the serial number. I find it weird that my 1965 Pontiac, which has a serial number inside the first thousand as it was built in the first week of production (maybe even the first day?), has an engine which is three numbers away from the serial number.

     

    The other kind of matching numbers is where the original engine number is known, either from factory records where they exist, or from the original registration document, or from the dealer sales records. I am fortunate that the second two apply to my Studebaker and from that I know that the engine in it now is not the one it left the factory with.

     

    Late 20’s Car for ID

    in What is it?

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