sambarn
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Posts posted by sambarn
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I think that if a need is there and interested members are willing to do the work then go for it!! I am a member of three regions, one non-geographic and four marque clubs. each has it's own focus and I'm glad for all of them. This isn't a sector of the car hobby that I represent (outside of my sad old 78 C-10) but I know many who would be all over this!! Good Luck!
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he may be trying to catch a nut but when he does he's gonna be so screwed.
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They do good work. I've seen one of their Stromberg bodies and it was lovely as well as functional. I believe their US contact is involved in the Plymouth club and can probably help you out if need be. Good Luck!
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I once found a 56 Caddie with the roof suspended eight feet above the car by the tree that had grown through and lifted the roof straight up over a period of years. sad but like found art, it made me sit and stare for a while...
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So Tatra, do drumming of your own!! I'm interested in Reel Cars, guessing that it's cars in movies? Am I on the right track?
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If you want the position, do the work - whether you are paid for it or not. I am of the opinion that if you accept a position, you should give it 100% and be 100% prepared - if you aren't willing to do that, then don't accept the position. If you all want to walk around with your special judges patch, do the job - and that means more than just showing up at the meet. The car owners at these meets have spent 1000's and 1000's of dollars and an untold amount of time so they deserve judges who are willing to prepare themselves.
Just sayin'.....
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It's a CM Hall tailight. Very similar to the 27 Marmon model L and several other cars. Neat differnce is the glass lens in the place of the marque logo that would usually be there.
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I like the term Dickie Seat.A Quite popular term in the older British car books.
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That was great! My girlfriend's dad has a '59 that she refers to as my brother the car. I honestly hardly knew enough "Corvette Talk" to even convince him I was a car nut. This should help, Thanks
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West I believe he is referring to the unbroken line from the front fender tip to the rear.
Mac, although it it an unbroken line, The fenders are indeeed three seperate pieces: Front, rear and running board. The running board (step plate) would be frame mounted and quite solid as it would act as the support for the fenders. I agree with the Model 20 diagnosis:
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pictures??
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In response to the tire issue, Goodyear first invented the tubeless tire in 1903. Although it was briefly adopted for bicycles in the way of what was basically a treaded tube, I've always understood that it was the 1954 Packard line of cars that re-introduced the concept of tubeless tires. Googling tubeless tire history or history of tires points this out but I couldn't find any primary source documentation. A Ford dealer putting Packard style innovations on a car in September of 54 ( as the line of 55s is coming out with tubeless tires) is by no means surprising, in fact, it seems like a smart way to help clear the lots of older cars and proves how rapidly America moved to tubeless tires.
Here is the line that I find all over the internet supporting this: In 1903, P.W. Litchfield of the Goodyear Tire Company patented the first tubeless tire, however, it was never commercially exploited until the 1954 Packard, but like Abraham Lincoln said - "Don't believe everything you read on the internet". This is a fact I've scratched my head at since my first judging school and the 1955 Tubeless idea was presented. I just let it slide since I don't actually have any 50s cars but I do feel that the year is wrong on the list.
As far as the rest of the thread, I am tickled a bit by some of the rhetoric. It seems I remember having to change my schedule around for a chief judge that quit after accepting the position and leaving our region in a bind. Luckily, my mother was able to step in and serve in the position and we were able reschedule the Grandchild event for a time when she could be there. It's a story I've heard several times when discussing the need for follow through and commitment. Have you ever heard that story Bob?
As far as reading the judging manual--Psshaw--- Shop Rat - You are totally right about the ** marks and removing them showed a foolish misunderstanding for human brain patterns. The manual and the critical key phrases are repeated and reread often by judges - most can quote certain critical parts and all are familiar with the words like they are a song from high school. because of this we (the humans) relate similar phrases to our initial reference point. This means that when a small change is made to a document that the reader is very familiar with, it takes an impressive awareness to overcome brain wiring and register the small change as its being read. The punctuation was a flag to draw awareness of the reader to the change, to act with the common methodology of the brain to alert the reader to pay attention and relearn accepted facts. It's absence doesn't increase the chances of absorbing the new information, it decreases it and was a foolhardy decision by someone who probably is actually smart and aware enough to catch changes like this. I (and most of the world) do not possess this level of intellect and need all the warning flags I can get. I read the new and current manual before and after judging school and know that I have missed things. This whole frenzy of judges responsibility seems to come from the comment that Shop Rat made about the now famously absent "**" marks. She was pretty much jumped on and that is just cruel and ignorant. Of all the people in the car hobby to jump about their dedication as a judge?? Really? Read through the judging section posts since there has been a judging section and you will see that Susan is ALWAYS questioning, interpreting, and growing as a judge and is extremely dedicated to the craft and know one knows that book as well as she does. OK, there was a little confusion with the whole vogue tire question but only because of her dedication, not because she was apathetic or careless.
As far as the OP, Vogue Tires are and have always been awesome! Not really my cup of tea but memorable, notable and worth preserving. Have you ever seen the late twenties vogue tires? WoW!! I think that if you can find them and it's safe to use them, tires are tires. Right size/Right tire. If the numbers match factory intent and documentation - they should be allowed and judged for quality/condition.
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West you are so right. I got all rant-y and didn't check my facts. Heck I don't even know what 27F is. It should have been 18C. And I believe you are right that it should have been in 19A.
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It's a bit reminiscent of a 27 Marmon Model L - The head looks very similar.
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I have to say, I'm really on the fence on this car. It is an incredible car, fabulous in every detail and I loved getting a chance to look it over at Hershey. This car and I share a class and I hope he doesn't intend to get his Senior at Charlotte this year - It'd be a hard act to follow for my Marmon. I recognize that the Phaeton conversion is historically significant but there are a few things that I have not quite wrapped my head around.
First, The AACA has always frowned on rebodied or highly modified body vehicles. Always. Since day one. It used to be fairly common in the hobby for cars to be rebodied and the attempt to save the closed or frumpy body styles that were being converted to Speedsters/Phaetons was a goal for the club as far back as I can remember. All of a sudden It's nominated for a national award by the same club? I'm not mad or petty, these are just concerns I haven't fully reconciled.
Second: Judging. We all know it's rebodied, as was pointed out earlier, that's a 40 point deduction. With a threshold of 365, how did this car receive an award and will this always be the case when this car is judged. Are we making exceptions for one car? Is it that rare or incredible? I saw several meticulously restored one off cars with their original body on national show fields last year that were quite impressive and did not receive national award nominations. It is a beautiful car and would be so amazing in a museum or concours or tour or movie or personal collection but is it right that it's competing as something it's not: an original car?
Third: In the course of discussion about this car phrases like "parts car for two restorations" "rotted wood in the doors" and "would never be restored" are often used. When I look at pictures of the original car I think that both of the cars I finished this year were in worse shape when we began, as I'm sure were 1000s of other cars out there.
Cars that have their original body.
Choices that were made to preserve the historical significance of the car.
To keep them original and AACA eligible.
I think that using the lines "No One would restore it" or "Too far gone is a bit of a stretch. These are good words to say if you are a used car salesman but the Stearns Knight Sedan is a full classic in fairly complete shape, no worse than so many cars in our hobby and in our club started out. It's bit of rhetoric that rings less valid to me the more I hear it.
I am not "dissing" the car or the fabulous work that went into it but I am still fairly unsettled about its' participation as a competing AACA show vehicle and what the nomination for a National award, whichever award it has been nominated for, says about the AACA's stance on rebodied or highly modified cars.
Going back and reading some of the other posts, Steve Moskowitz's post and others make the point about the collector and future purchaser of the car, a few folks worry about the market value of the car but what worries me is the corruption of the game. The AACA is not in the habit of decoding VINs - Fine, but we don't have to decode, the history of the car is known. Yes, our system judges the car on how It "could have left the dealer". Well a sedan couldn't leave the dealer as a Phaeton. That's not a factory option package added on or a fancy paint job and trunk option, it's a rebodied car. Plain and Simple.
How does this affect the long term honor of the competition of AACA? I'll never be able to afford a big Full Classic Phaeton but maybe a sedan. Now if I buy one to restore I have to decide if, since it;'s no difference to the AACA and I could recieve the provenance justifying AACA Junior/Senior/National Award, Should I convert sedans to phaetons and use the AACA system as my way of proving it's legiitimacy so as to increase my profits? Do I need to loan it to the museum to achieve this kind of reward?
FInally: Considering the Full Classic status of All Stearns Knights. Why doesn't it compete as a Classic? Or is it easier to gain this provenance in 27 F where the competition is lighter.
It's all a bit tawdry feeling and leaves me unsettled. If it ends up being the car in 27F (27-29 8-cylinder -four wheel brakes) that beats me out for Senior and I have to spend the money to tow the Marmon to another National to achieve Senior, I'm going to have an even more sour taste in my mouth.
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Frank, That's going to require a parts car but shouldn't be too hard to find.
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I love the Royales...I saw the Coupe DeVille Binder in Reno... my Dad and I talking elephant mascots all the way from Alabama...
We have a couple of older Bugatti histories but they are probably out of print and pricey. Going old school I might recommend visiting the Detroit Public Library, I understand that their automobile reference section is unparalleled. On my way there I would contact the AACA Library and research center. I don't know what they have but Chris Ritter should be able to help you rapidly(If you're a member of AACA this process is virtually free). And finally..
Recovered from the information-less inter-google:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugatti_Royale
http://www.bugatti.com/en/tradition/bugatti-models/t41-royale.html
And books on the inter-google
http://www.alibris.com/Bugatti-Royale-Paul-Kestler/book/10154978
http://bugattipage.com/book15.htm
https://openlibrary.org/books/OL11610606M/Anatomy_of_a_Bugatti_Royale
All three of these books are available but the first is for sale at $330. So is this just for curiosity's sake but why the Royale interest? I've always fantasized about the post-lottery vacation where I visit all the Royales (even the Kellner car)!
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I'm partial to, in this particular case, a 67 Lincoln engine. Or if you want to impress your friends....A Steam engine.
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MarrsCars, Just to be semantic, perhaps we could go with first commercially available electric car available since the eighties (citi-car) or the horde of electric cars that were offered to consumers from 1895 to the early thirties.
Nick8086, I'm not sure what car that is but based on prior posting... is that a Kaiser-Darrin? They weren't actually made in the nineties
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Here is a discussion on the Speedster forum Many of the Model 33 owners chime in here. I have a Torpedo Touring bodied Model 33.
http://forums.aaca.org/f230/1912-hudson-mile-minute-speedster-332569.html
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John, the compromise is the AACA approved info placards that one can add to your vehicle with no points lost or feeling hurt. That way, if it's important to the owner, they can offer all the details without having to stand there repeating the same three paragraphs.
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John, Ditto what Rick said! There's always room for a Binger in the Red field. Your story is helping light a fire under my @$$ to get the 1911 Hudson Model 33 Torpedo body touring car up and running. You'll remember that classic photo of of Barnett, Binger, Ricketts and Scotland. Harry (the Hudson) has sat in the same state he was in when dad passed. I've moved forward on other projects but Harry's number finally came up. He's on the lift - New carb ordered and I'm ready to get him on the road again. I'm actually considering leaving the 1911 Marmon at home and driving the Hudson on the 2014 Reliability tour in PA this June. These two cars have run together many times - wouldn't it be a hoot to do it again. My mom will be my navigator (god help us all) and we'll be joining Tracy (Ricketts) Lesher, Her husband Jeff and kids as well as many of the Buzzard clan. You should come!! Load up the car and come adventure with us! Mom would love to see Judy again!
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The Marmon Model 32s were cast aluminum. Only the running boards were left unpainted
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I used varnish, brushed on and six coats, hand sanded and love the results. Tone and warmth that sprayed varnish seems to lose. Recieved Senior award at Hershey and shooting for Grand National at Lebanon in June.
HERSHEY 1984? 1985?
in General Discussion
Posted
You are on the banked hill across the street from red field looking down on the stadium where the High Wheeler race is held every year. Close enough magnification and I could probably find our space.