1937 Packard 120 Carb/Air Cleaner and Fuel Pump Question

[pint4]

As I have been working on my 37 Packard 120 restoration, I have found some differences between the car I am restoring and another 37 Packard 120 donor car that was in a major wreck.  One of the differences is the carb and air cleaner.  The donor car came with Stromberg Carb and tall air cleaner with brace to support it.  The car I am restoring has a Carter WDO Carb and a rather flat air cleaner.  Were these differences because one of them was standard and the other was optional or was this another one of Packard's mid year changes?  I have been told that it is rarer to see the Carter WDO Carb than the Stromberg.  I also noticed the tall air cleaner will not work with the Carter WDO because it lacks an indentation on the bottom side of the air cleaner.  Attached are a few photos of what I have.  Have others run into these differences?

 

The top half of the fuel pump looks to be a vacuum pump which I assume is for the windshield wipers.  Does anyone have a photo showing how it should be plumbed?  What is the correct path from the fuel pump to the fire wall?  Is it copper tubing all the way or is some part of it rubber hose? 

 

 

 

 

Thanks,

 

Bob

[carbking]

A few observations:

 

Car manufacturers often used multiple vendors for:

 

(1) Continual supply (strikes)

(2) Cost

(3) Performance

 

Both Stromberg and Carter literature indicates both were standard equipment on the 1937 120, not optional.

 

We sell more kits for the 1937 Packard 120 with Carter than with Stromberg by about a 2 to 1 ratio. Do not know if this is because there are twice as many Carters, the Carters are easier to rebuild than the Stromberg (they are) or the Stromberg is more reliable.

 

The pictured Carter appears to be a later carb, not a 1937 (take a close look at the automatic choke). Perhaps this has some meaning as to the air cleaner interchangability; I do not know.

 

We see approximately 65~75 percent of older vehicles with an incorrect carburetor.

 

For some reason totally unknown to me, there seemed to be a "quantum leap" in carburetor technology in 1939. Several new models were released by all three major carb manufacturers, and many vehicles of the 1930's were treated to the newer, better models THEN as owners were trying to get the best out of their vehicles.

 

Jon.

[packick]

For the 1937 120s, Packard either installed a Stromberg EE-14 or a Carter 366S.  The 366S is quite rare, but since the Carter carburetors in general are better than the Stromberg carburetors, many people have installed later year Carter carburetors on their '37 120s.  Additionally, the same '37 120 tall air cleaner was used on both the EE-14 or the 366S.  I have never seen a flat one on a '37 120.

[carbking]

Joe - a bit more information on the carbs used by Packard on the 120:

 

1935 - 1936 used Stromberg EE-14's exclusively.

1937 Packard tried the Carter WD-0 366s, along with the EE-14

1938 was back to the EE-14 exclusively.

 

The Stromberg EE-14 was essentially the EE-1 used by FoMoCo (Stromberg 97) with a grafted on automatic choke for Packard. There were other differences, but the autochoke was the major difference. The auto choke was complex, and most mechanics did not understand its function, PLUS it was a real bear to work with. I am not sure we ever had a Packard EE-14 come into the shop with a working choke.

 

Virtually the entire run of Stromberg EE-14 carbs was sold to Packard. There were a few experimental units that went to Graham, and a few more exported to England.

 

The 366s had a conventional auto choke, but it wasn't a lot better than the EE-14. It was, however, MUCH easier to rebuild.

 

In 1939, Stromberg discontinued the EE-14, and it was superceded by the EE-16 on the 120. Basically the same technology as the EE-14, but with a conventional auto choke. The EE-16 is a very good carburetor.

 

Likewise, in 1940 the EE-16 was used exclusively on the 120.

 

1941 saw a continuation of the EE-16 and a return to the Carter WD-0

 

The entire production of EE-16's were sold to Packard, whereas the WD-0 was used (with a different base) on many applications.

 

The E series Stromberg did not survive WWII as original equipment carbs. Stromberg did continue to manufacture EE-1's for FoMoCo enthusiasts to replace the cheaper AA-1 Holleys with the leaky power valves.

 

The post-war 120's used Carter WD-0 carbs exclusively.

 

As to which is better??? You will get lots of opinions. My choice would be either the EE-16 or the later WD-0's. However, the WD-0 was by far the most troublesome Carter 2-barrel until that distinction was won by the much cheaper BBD Carter built for Chrysler products beginning in the 1950's. The EE-16 was a very reliable unit. I personally like the metering rod technology as used by Carter, as it allows for more precise tuning than the other makes.

 

All of these are available, however the EE-14's and the 366s are less common than the later EE-16's and the later Carter WD-0's. You mentioned that the 366s is quite rare. I would respectfully disagree. We have restored several; enough that we went to the expense to reproduce the decal used on the automatic choke (with permission from Carter). We still have some of the carbs.

 

Jon.

[pint4]

Jon,

I have a question about the top diameters of the two carbs used by Packard in 1937.  I am referring to the diameter at the the top of the carb where the air cleaner attaches to the carb.  Are they the same diameter on both the Stromberg EE-14 and the Carter WD-0?  If not, what are each of the two diameters respectively?

Thanks,

Bob

[Owen_Dyneto]

Have you purchased the 1935-1941 Packard Parts List?  It indicates that there are two different air filters for the 120C depending on whether you have the Carter or Stromberg carburetor and thus one could assume the diameters of the carburetor air horns are different.  Perhaps someone else can give you actual measurements.

[packick]

For what it's worth, I had a 1937 120 with a Stromberg EE-14 carburetor and swapped it out for a Carter 366S that I found.  The same air cleaner fit perfectly on both.

[carbking]

The Carter 366s measures 2.610

 

The Stromberg EE-16 (1939) measures 2.610

 

I don't have an EE-14 handy and too lazy to go to the warehouse and dig one out, but would wager it has the same measurement.

 

My GUESS for two different air cleaners would be due to the presence of the integral choke on the Carter (it extends higher than the air intake).

 

Jon.

Edited March 1, 2016 by carbking (see edit history)

[pint4]

Now that I have a better understanding of the carbs used on 37 Packard 120's, I now will have to find the correct air cleaner.  The tall version with the the indentation on the bottom to accommodate the integral choke on the Carter carb I have on my car.  Does anyone know of one for sale or have one for sale?  

Thanks.

Bob

Email: pint4@new.rr.com

[KLF]

I've had a lot of trouble with the choke on the EE-14 carb on my car. Has anyone swapped over a Carter 512 used from 41-47? The better choke makes this an attractive idea. I guess the air cleaner might be a problem but will the linkage match up? My 120 is a 1935 but the engine is from a 37.

Thanks

Ken