Help with clutch adjustment and helper spring

I did not take pictures prior to disassembly... It looked simple... I know, I know... Stupid. But one thing led to another and a simple clutch adjustment turned into a two month front/rear suspension, front/rear brake, steering overhaul. I can't get to either first or reverse without grinding. I have no play in the clutch pedal, because of the helper spring. The clutch has 500 miles and was working before I took the front end apart to clean, replace and paint suspension, steering and brakes. There is no chatter, no noise when I push the clutch pedal. With the clutch pedal pushed in, I can feel the engine is still turning and not allowing the gears to engage with out grinding. First to second is minimal, second to third is quiet. With the engine off gears shift smooth. When the engine is cold, there is no grinding. When the car gets warmed up, I get the grinding from neutral to first and reverse. I haven't change the fluid yet, I was planning on doing it today, but I was wondering is someone could post a picture of the proper location of the helper spring on their clutch. I used to have .5" play between the pedal and the floor board, no I don't.

I drover her yesterday for the first time in two months, what a difference... Eaton made me a new set of coil springs, all new tie rods, dual circuit master cylinder, wheel cylinders, brake shoes, hoses, bearings, drag link, arm, all was cleaned up and painted Eastwood chassis black. Took the leaf springs apart, painted them and teflon lined them. New rear shocks, rear brakes, painted the frame and underneath the fenders, new points, distributor cap, rotor, wires, plugs, oil filter, oil pan seal. Did a string alignment and tracks down the road like a dream! I am going to drain and refill the tranny and rear axle fluid today and see how it goes

Dare I ask, could the clutch plate have been installed backwards?

I had my 8 year old press the clutch while I was under the car. Engine was not running. I just wanted to see what was going on under there. The top shaft is the one that pushes the clutch fork. The bottom shaft is the one that adjusts the play in the pedal. The way the bottom shaft is right now, is set with no play at the pedal at all. To set the factory recommended 1/2" play needs to go back 1/4". I tried this with both settings and here is what I saw:

The stud that the clutch fork is supposed to pivot, mine goes through. I do not know if this is a GM design, but I always thought it clutch fork pivots on top of the clutch fork, kind like a fulcrum.

<a href="http://s412.photobucket.com/user/2xxnoxy/media/clutch_zps9671cb4a.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp201/2xxnoxy/clutch_zps9671cb4a.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo clutch_zps9671cb4a.jpg"/></a>

The throw out bearing had a grease nipple, I greased it, but that was not the problem. The pressure plate springs are new. The whole clutch has about 500 miles but was installed 12 years ago. The flywheel looks new. The pressure plate now: when my 8 year old was pressing on the clutch pedal, the clutch fork was adjusted in a way so I could see how much pressure it can apply to the throw out bearing. When she was pressing the clutch, I could see the clutch fork pushing the throw out bearing onto the pressure plate. It was a solid touch, there seem to be 3 maybe 4 vertical lines kind like wear grooves. The helper springs had nothing to do with my issue here, as I initially thought.

I drained the transmission,as all fluids had been in the car for 12 years or so. Fluid was dark green, honey like consistency. I replaced it with Pennzoil Synchromesh fluid. I could not get GL1 from my local NAPA and after talking to people, this was the alternative.

Pressing the clutch with the engine running now: I didn't have the cojones to be under the car (car on jack stands) and see why pressing the clutch I can't get into gear with out grinding. R, 1st, 2nd and 3rd grind. Only 3rd is allowed to be selected. R and 1st have no synchro, 2nd and 3rd do. So I know it is not the transmission, (was rebuilt 12 years ago same time the clutch was done and was shifting fine before all this started.

I an my way to work, should be back 6 pm tonight and will post some video to see, maybe this will help. There was no clutch slippage, no noises other than the occasional grinding, but then again I never drove the car long enough to warm up the fluids, as the fluid that game out was almost like grease. No the thinner fluid maybe has something to do with it? I don't know, probably so.

There is a transmission shop near by, kind like AAMCO but I hate to take the car there with out knowing what is going on and I don't know any of these guys... Yep, I do have trust issues.

Dave, thanks for your reply, hope the video will show what is going on. I just hop it is something simple...

Stavros

What make model and year is the car?

1937 Pontiac Business. Motor is a 1950 Pontiac 239.

Check that the throw out bearing is not installed backwards, I Did that on a 51 pontiac many years ago. Bill

Sounds like the clutch is in backwards. Flip it over, install the pressure plate, release bearing, bell housing and check again.

The car was working fine for 12 years. There was a little grinding I was told, but nothing major. I took video before I did the adjustment today.

http://s412.photobucket.com/user/2xxnoxy/media/IMG_2471_zps955f3e40.mp4.html

Here are the pictures:

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Where I am right now is here: I took all springs off. Adjusted the pedal per manual, so with the pedal against its stop, I adjusted the link screw so that the pedal stood 1/2" away from the underside felt retainer board.

Then I adjusted the ball stud the clutch fork pivots on, (I was wrong when I stated the ball stud went through the clutch fork, it does not, it pivots.) so it gave the throw out bearing a little more "push".

After all linkage was adjusted, I installed the helper springs.

I am able to get into third gear, smooth as a hot knife slicing through butter... Once in 3rd gear, with the transmission shaft stopped, I can get into all other gears with no issues at all. Took her for a test drive. Same thing: Third gear releases the clutch, the transmission shaft stops and once it's stopped I can get into first. First to second I double clutch and the grinding on a scale 1 - 10 is a 3... I can get into third from first and there is no grinding at all. Once I stop, I select neutral, then third, then first, and all over again.

It is a huge improvement compared to before. I must have watched 30 videos on Youtube about the clutch, how it works and what each component does and once I understood how all came together, I was able to comprehend the idea of the clutch not releasing. I still do not know why it is not releasing 100 percent. At some point I will have a shop put a new clutch in, but for now I just want to drive her...

For fluid, I used Pennzoil Syncromesh, safe for bronze and yellow metals, the fluid I drained was thick, greenish and thick... I don't know if switching to GL1 fluid will alleviate some of the problem, but for now, unless someone with a sharp eye can give me some pointers, I am just going to leave it as it is. Transmission number shows GM 1293153-2

The adjustment is tricky... too much play and the throw out bearing does not fully release the clutch plate, too little play and the throw out bearing rides on all the time, shortening its life... I have learnt a lot, I still am, drove about 10 miles tonight with no other issues.

Does it really need three springs? Looks like two too many to me, but I have no actual experience with a 37.

Book shows two, one for the brake and one for the clutch. The third one was added later to assist the clutch fork, keep the TO bearing from touching. I think I know now why: This is a brand new 37 TO bearing:

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Wear lines are much deeper, plus mine's face is all "polished".

Dare I ask, could the clutch plate have been installed backwards?

Yes it was... and you know what it took to find that out... But now I know it is done and it's done right, as it shifts like a brand new car... New T/O bearing plus new pilot bearing too

Yes it was... and you know what it took to find that out... But now I know it is done and it's done right, as it shifts like a brand new car... New T/O bearing plus new pilot bearing too

You mean I correctly diagnosed the problem? Makes my day!