Reatta AC's Bit The Dust

This gives me the perfect opportunity to replace the compressor in my '90...but not till the weather warms up.

I'm really very tired tonight so all I'm going to post is this... the colors of the seals may appear different when viewed on different computer screens.

My eyeballs told me that the colors of the seals I used are - one Green and one Orange (Orange could be interpreted as Red).

And yes, I too felt that the instructions were somewhat confusing. So, don't feel "stupid" Frustrated certainly but not stupid. I too would have been happier with the OE setup but, as I mentioned to Ron some time ago, it probably made more sense to the manufacturer of the compressor to come up with a "Universal" compressor body and throw in some adapters as opposed to casting and machining different bodies for each application. It also saves on shelf space.

Good night.

John F.

Harry,

There should be a minimum 1/16" gap between the manifold and the compressor when tightened down.

I wish they would have inserted that statement in the instructions. Would have made a world of difference in understanding that the installation was correct.

Personally, I really didn't care for seeing that gap. Made me thing that there was something wrong with the choice of spacer/seal rings. But, even though it looked wrong, it was the only combination of spacer/seals that made any sense. To me, it looks like a good way to snap the manifold in half.

John F.

Instructions state 1.2 mm, which is about .050", still a little under 1/16". At the suggestion of others, this time I removed the radiator, which gave more room. Still, the only way to observe the manifold connections was with a mirror or digital camera.

The enclosed picture shows the problem. The lower compressor bore (pressure) is deeper than the top bore (suction) and the lower black seal was too thin and allowed the manifold to bottom out.

So, it's Red (medium thickness) seal at top and Green (thickest) at bottom.

Or, it's Black (thinnest) at top and Red (medium thickness) at bottom. The thin Black at top looks just about right for the 0.050 manifold to compressor clearance.

And this is what happens when one can't see what they're doing.

Or, "Caution, Blind Man Working On Reatta."

This is why I assemble the manifold to the compressor on the bench.

Trying to align and bolt the two together on the car blind create this condition, not to mention the possibility (probability) of dirt getting into the compressor.

On the bench, you can see if you're using the wrong washer.

Granted, you have to remove two additional lines, but you've already done so much so far, that it's no biggie.

The only issue I've run into is disconnecting the pressure line into the condenser; the fitting tends to be corroded. If so, use some spray can lube.

Another note; bolt the rear bracket to the compressor, THEN bolt the whole assy to the engine block. 13 and 15mm swivel sockets come in handy.

Now, another issue on these year GM products is the possibility of a leaking evaporator. This vintage seem prone, don't know why.

An easy (?) way to check is to remove the blower module from the plenum, and with a strong light, look down at the evaporator. Your looking for a DRY evaporator, not oil coated. The oil coating can be subtile. Not good. Dust and dirt (hair) are ok (within limits). A real PITA to replace. You think the compressor is hard to replace; try the evaporator. BTW, the evaporator comes out thru the engine bay.

RRR,

I see now where in the instructions it mentions the 1.2mm (3/64") clearance. (I have one of those inch/fractional/mm calipers. (They're Great!) It's in line #4 along with the torque value. Since it was about a year and a half ago that I did this I must have forgotten about it.

Or, it's Black (thinnest) at top and Red (medium thickness) at bottom. The thin Black at top looks just about right for the 0.050 manifold to compressor clearance.

OK... The instructions call for the use of a "Black" (52418568) spacer/seal on the suction port This is the upper port (relatively speaking once the compressor is mounted). On the included "Green" instruction sheet (there was a " Green" sheet and a " White" sheet included with the compressor) there is an application chart for the sealing washers.

The "White" instruction page says that for the Suction /Discharge hose block configuration (Manifold) with the ""Flat face hose block with short pilots", which is what I have on my '90, I should Use Kit Part Number:

6571620 OR 52390928

6571621 OR 52390926

My understanding was that these kits were to contain the "Black", "Silver" and "Green" Spacer/Seals as well as the Long and Short inserts. For what ever reason, my compressor came with three separate bags of Seal Washer Kits. NONE of them were labeled with any of the part numbers listed above.

The part numbers of the kits provided me were:

P/N 89019384, P/N 89019386 and P/N 89019385 as shown in the attached photo.

There was no kit number 6571621 or 52390927 with "Black" sealing washers included with the compressor I bought. There is however bag with two dark colored seals (could be "Black") but the kit number P/N 89019385 isn't listed as being used for any manifold configuration, especially mine. That seal kit as well as seal kit # 89019386 with two small Silver Spacer/Seals was set aside early on in the decision process to help eliminate a bit of the confusion. That left the bag with P/N 89019384 with the long and short inserts as the only option. It's from this bag that I determined which Spacer/Seal (washer) to be used. The "Silver" Spacer/Seal had an OD that was too large to fit the compressor so that left the "Red" (Orange) ring to be used where the instructions said a "Black" one was to be as the "Green" one was to be used in conjunction with the short insert on the discharge port. This is the lower position. It never occurred to me at the time that I was to take one of the two dark colored ("Black") rings from a bag that isn't listed in the instructions but, then again, I was already using parts from another bag that wasn't listed in the instructions anyway... See what I'm saying about being frustrated and angry. Here's a 15 minute job of attaching the manifold block to the compressor that was taking hours just to find the correct retro-fit adapter parts configuration from bags that didn't have the part numbers listed in the (poorly assembled/written) instructions. Now... I'm really pissed off because, thanks to RRR (No... really... thank you!), I see that I wasn't provided with the correct bag of parts to begin with. Notice: In his photo of the parts bag (Post #37) The part number P/N 6571620 IS listed on the "White" instruction page as one of the kits to use. This bag was NOT included with my compressor. To further confuse things here... I just noticed that the "White" instructions included with his compressor DOESN'T list that bag. Now... how about that!?

I've include with this post, pics of the parts bags and instruction sheets that came with my compressor. Notice how the

Kit Part Numbers On my "White" instruction sheet differ from his "White instruction sheet.

It lists:

2724887 OR 52380416

2724575 OR 52380414 as the kit part numbers required to retrofit. Huh!

WTF! yah, that's right... I said WTF!

So, right now, I'd like to know how RRR determined that this was the correct parts bag to use for his installation. How many bags were included with the compressor he bought. Just this one or, like me, three? Did his compressor also include the Green set of instructions or just the White one he posted? Was the "Black" seal included in the same bag as the "Green" one? Was there a "Red" (Orange) one in the same bag?

The reason I keep bringing up the "Green" instruction sheet is that there is a reference to "Sealing Washer Kit Part Number 6571621 or 52390927". The contents of which are "(2) 5/8" Sealing Washers 52418568* 1988-9". The significance of this is that on the "White" instruction sheet, P/N 6571621 is one of the Kit Part Numbers Requires To Retrofit. More significant is the little asterisk (*) after the seal part number 52418568*<.

There are two notes below the chart. The one with the single asterisk says " 52418568 Sealing Washer Metal Retainer is Colored " Black" For Identification purposes". Huh!

Perhaps I was supposed to use one of these two dark (Black) colored washers on the Suction side of the manifold as per the "White" instructions? Maybe... But the "Green" instruction sheet says that they are for years 1988 and 1989. Mine is a 1990. Also, the bag that they are in is labeled P/N80919385. No mention of parts from that bag number being used ANYWHERE! ... Hmmmm ...

Maybe RRR's P/N 6571620 bag had all the correct conversion parts in it. Probably would have helped him if the included instructions

reflected that.

A request. RRR, if there was another " Black" Spacer/Seal in one of your bags, could you take a micrometer or dial caliper measurement for me. I don't want a reading from the one that was used in the assembly. But, if there were two in the bag, a reading from the one that wasn't used would be nice. I measured both from the bag marked P/N 89019385 and they measure 0.1210" to 0.1230" . Thanks.

Ronnie, this is nobody's fault except the folks that designed and wrote the botched instruction set and those who packaged and marked the bags. Once they got put in the box with the compressors and shipped off well, that's the end of the blame train.

Everything I have was marked " Made in China" . I see the bag that RRR posted is marked " Made in Mexico" . What's a Mother to do?

Hopefully Harry, who has offered to do a write-up, can sort through all of this and make sense of it for us. That will only work if the compressor came with the correct and properly marked parts assortment. Now that I think about it, if that were the case in the first place, this exercise would be moot.

One more thing. Having reconsidered all of this, I don't know that the "Red" (Orange) Spacer/Seal is the correct one to have on the suction side of the (my) compressor. With the instructions written as they were and the parts bags being labeled as they were, this was the best solution I could make at the time. I concluded that either the coloring on the seal was wrong or the text was wrong but, because it seemed to fit and the manifold (Hose Block) appeared parallel to the compressor face when the attachment bolt was torqued to value, that it was correct. It's been working without leakage but, If I'm going to leave the photos I posted of the installation up on the Forum, I need to make a note that it is either correct or not correct. Or, I could change the wording and photo-chop the color from "Red" (Orange) to "Black". Or just delete the whole thing. Once we get this sorted out I'll make the appropriate adjustments. I just hope that in the meantime, no one takes it as gospel. At least not yet.

On another note. Like harry said, it's easier to assemble the manifold to the compressor then attach the compressor to the mounts on the engine (with fan and radiator removed). This way you can be sure that the connection and seals are correct before attempting to do it on the car with limited space, visibility and awkward positioning. In my case, when I attempted to attach the compressor, I found the the bracket for the front motor mount interfered with the bolt to bolt-hole alignment. I attributed this to the manifold hose block sticking out further from the compressor than it was originally. I ended up removing the AC manifold from the compressor and, using a cutting burr in an air powered die grinder, removing material from the bracket, trial fitting, until I had enough clearance for the pipes. (photo #4 of post #32). The bracket is made from aluminum and shaved down easily. The original port protection cover that came with the compressor came really handy for this to keep the chips from getting into the holes.

Just so you know how slow and dull I am (or is it dull and slow...?), it's taken almost four hours to compose, type, recompose, retype and attach a pic to this post. Add to that, that I started thinking about making this post last night after work. (GOD, I'm beat.)

That's about average for me.

John F.

Every DA-6/ HR-6 compressor and manifold is different at the port ends on GM cars. That's why there are so many seal washers.

I don't use the useless 'instructions'; I trial fit the washers that look like they'll give me the appropriate compressor/manifold gap.

Now, to muddy the waters some more; do you know what those little aluminum barrels are for that are in the kit?

The pipe nubs (manifold) that you put the washers on are supposed to fit into the appropriate holes in the compressor.

If the washer you use covers most of the nub, then you're supposed to add one of those aluminum extensions to the nub so the pipe will enter the compressor hole. Not always needed; matter of fact I think I've only used them once and I've done maybe 20 compressor replacements.

Starting somewhere in the late '90s early '2000, GM started using a completely new compressor design. It's a scroll compressor; no pistons!

Piston seal failure is the major reason for the DA-6 units to fail.

I discovered this quite by accident. One thing I often do to a rough check of a compressor is to turn the compressor hub by hand (not the pulley). I have a 'calibrated' hand that can tell when a compressor is too tight (lack of oil, jammed rings) or too loose (broken rings). Working on a 2000 Seville, the compressor turned VERY easy and I automatically replaced the compressor. It too turned easy. I tore down the old compressor for the scrap aluminum and discovered this no friction scroll compressor.

Unless the front seal goes bad, I don't see how this new design can go bad.

Don't think it can be retro-fitted to the reatta as it's a different shape.

After reading the last few posts about this I think I should remove compressors from the Reatta Store and leave selecting the the right A/C parts for a Reatta up to the pros. Who would have thought that it could be so complicated to figure out how to install 2 seals and one bolt to mount the manifold on the back of the compressor. Even with John's detailed explanation and Harry's helpful comments I'm not sure I could install the compressor and get it right the first time. Are all new compressors made this way or is it just the new ACDelcos?

After reading the last few posts about this I think I should remove compressors from the Reatta Store and leave selecting the the right A/C parts for a Reatta up to the pros. Who would have thought that it could be so complicated to figure out how to install 2 seals and one bolt to mount the manifold on the back of the compressor. Even with John's detailed explanation and Harry's helpful comments I'm not sure I could install the compressor and get it right the first time. Are all new compressors made this way or is it just the new ACDelcos?

No, Ronnie, I wouldn't do that. If you don't have them available, they can be purchased from other vendors. The p/n are 15-22128 for the 1988 and 15-22130 for the 1989-91. You're doing the Reatta community a great service by providing Reatta parts.

The compressor seals only leave two possibilities. It's really pretty simple once someone figures out which seals go where. See my post #44 for the two possibilities.

RRR,

I see now where in the instructions it mentions the 1.2mm (3/64") clearance. (I have one of those inch/fractional/mm calipers. (They're Great!) It's in line #4 along with the torque value. Since it was about a year and a half ago that I did this I must have forgotten about it.

(I'm guessing now that the "Black" Spacer/Seal (sealing washer) was included in the bag marked P/N6571620, yes?)

OK... The instructions call for the use of a "Black" (52418568) spacer/seal on the suction port This is the upper port (relatively speaking once the compressor is mounted). On the included "Green" instruction sheet (there was a " Green" sheet and a " White" sheet included with the compressor) there is an application chart for the sealing washers.

The "White" instruction page says that for the Suction /Discharge hose block configuration (Manifold) with the ""Flat face hose block with short pilots", which is what I have on my '90, I should Use Kit Part Number:

6571620 OR 52390928

6571621 OR 52390926

My understanding was that these kits were to contain the "Black", "Silver" and "Green" Spacer/Seals as well as the Long and Short inserts. For what ever reason, my compressor came with three separate bags of Seal Washer Kits. NONE of them were labeled with any of the part numbers listed above.

The part numbers of the kits provided me were:

P/N 89019384, P/N 89019386 and P/N 89019385 as shown in the attached photo.

There was no kit number 6571621 or 52390927 with "Black" sealing washers included with the compressor I bought. There is however bag with two dark colored seals (could be "Black") but the kit number P/N 89019385 isn't listed as being used for any manifold configuration, especially mine. That seal kit as well as seal kit # 89019386 with two small Silver Spacer/Seals was set aside early on in the decision process to help eliminate a bit of the confusion. That left the bag with P/N 89019384 with the long and short inserts as the only option. It's from this bag that I determined which Spacer/Seal (washer) to be used. The "Silver" Spacer/Seal had an OD that was too large to fit the compressor so that left the "Red" (Orange) ring to be used where the instructions said a "Black" one was to be as the "Green" one was to be used in conjunction with the short insert on the discharge port. This is the lower position. It never occurred to me at the time that I was to take one of the two dark colored ("Black") rings from a bag that isn't listed in the instructions but, then again, I was already using parts from another bag that wasn't listed in the instructions anyway... See what I'm saying about being frustrated and angry. Here's a 15 minute job of attaching the manifold block to the compressor that was taking hours just to find the correct retro-fit adapter parts configuration from bags that didn't have the part numbers listed in the (poorly assembled/written) instructions. Now... I'm really pissed off because, thanks to RRR (No... really... thank you!), I see that I wasn't provided with the correct bag of parts to begin with. Notice: In his photo of the parts bag (Post #37) The part number P/N 6571620 IS listed on the "White" instruction page as one of the kits to use. This bag was NOT included with my compressor. To further confuse things here... I just noticed that the "White" instructions included with his compressor DOESN'T list that bag. Now... how about that!?

I've include with this post, pics of the parts bags and instruction sheets that came with my compressor. Notice how the

Kit Part Numbers On my "White" instruction sheet differ from his "White instruction sheet.

It lists:

2724887 OR 52380416

2724575 OR 52380414 as the kit part numbers required to retrofit. Huh!

WTF! yah, that's right... I said WTF!

So, right now, I'd like to know how RRR determined that this was the correct parts bag to use for his installation. How many bags were included with the compressor he bought. Just this one or, like me, three? Did his compressor also include the Green set of instructions or just the White one he posted? Was the "Black" seal included in the same bag as the "Green" one? Was there a "Red" (Orange) one in the same bag?

The reason I keep bringing up the "Green" instruction sheet is that there is a reference to "Sealing Washer Kit Part Number 6571621 or 52390927". The contents of which are "(2) 5/8" Sealing Washers 52418568* 1988-9". The significance of this is that on the "White" instruction sheet, P/N 6571621 is one of the Kit Part Numbers Requires To Retrofit. More significant is the little asterisk (*) after the seal part number 52418568*<.

There are two notes below the chart. The one with the single asterisk says " 52418568 Sealing Washer Metal Retainer is Colored " Black" For Identification purposes". Huh!

Perhaps I was supposed to use one of these two dark (Black) colored washers on the Suction side of the manifold as per the "White" instructions? Maybe... But the "Green" instruction sheet says that they are for years 1988 and 1989. Mine is a 1990. Also, the bag that they are in is labeled P/N80919385. No mention of parts from that bag number being used ANYWHERE! ... Hmmmm ...

Maybe RRR's P/N 6571620 bag had all the correct conversion parts in it. Probably would have helped him if the included instructions

reflected that.

A request. RRR, if there was another " Black" Spacer/Seal in one of your bags, could you take a micrometer or dial caliper measurement for me. I don't want a reading from the one that was used in the assembly. But, if there were two in the bag, a reading from the one that wasn't used would be nice. I measured both from the bag marked P/N 89019385 and they measure 0.1210" to 0.1230" . Thanks.

Ronnie, this is nobody's fault except the folks that designed and wrote the botched instruction set and those who packaged and marked the bags. Once they got put in the box with the compressors and shipped off well, that's the end of the blame train.

Everything I have was marked " Made in China" . I see the bag that RRR posted is marked " Made in Mexico" . What's a Mother to do?

Hopefully Harry, who has offered to do a write-up, can sort through all of this and make sense of it for us. That will only work if the compressor came with the correct and properly marked parts assortment. Now that I think about it, if that were the case in the first place, this exercise would be moot.

John F.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]295724[/ATTACH]

Here is the compressor and associated parts I received. No more, no less:

https://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1294428&cc=1019898

The two black washers on the left are identical and are the [Thinnest] and came in one plastic bag "Seal Washer Kit" P/N6571621, 1#15-2720. This pair of black washers is also available from Rock Auto as a pair.

A second plastic bag, "Seal Washer Kit" P/N6571620 contained (in picture on above link, L to R) Green [Most Thick] washer, Red [Medium Thickness] washer, Yellow [Not Used-Too Large Dia.] washer, and a short and long aluminum bushings at the bottom.

There were two sets of instructions, a white set shown in Post #37, and a green set shown in the picture below.

The long aluminum bushing will not be used on the Reatta. The short aluminum bushing is only used with the most thick Green Washer, if the Green washer is used.

In summary, there are two versions:

BLACK washer on TOP, RED washer at BOTTOM or,

Red washer on TOP, GREEN washer & SHORT BUSHING at BOTTOM.

Or, for confusion, the green sheet states to use quan. 2 BLACK 6571621 washers, which is how I got in this YN%^*VD mess in the first place!

Conclusion: Burn the instructions.

I agree with Russ, leave the compressor in your store. If you buy a compressor anywhere else, you run into the same situation.

I've bought compressors from many sources, and the deal with the seals is the same.

I will leave the ACDelco compressors in the Reatta Store if they are no harder to install than other brands. The purpose of the Reatta Store is to help Reatta owners find quality parts at the best prices. When I find out a part in the Reatta Store doesn't meet those requirements I have no problem getting rid of it. I hope as this thread progresses we will be able to come up with a way to install these compressors correctly without so much confusion.

Russ,

Thanks for providing the part numbers from the bags included with your compressor. Had I received those same parts, I would not have been in the predicament that I was in. Your part numbers match the part numbers listed in the instructions. NONE of the bags included with the compressor that I bought did. Even the two included seals one might consider " Black" came in a bag with the part number 89019385. That number doesn't appear anywhere in the instructions. Maybe one of those was to be used on the installation but were in a mis-marked bag. Who knows? There is also a mention of a " Yellow" seal. Although it isn't used in our installation, it was nowhere to be found in any of the included bags but was mentioned as being in the bag with the " Green" and " Red seals". This omission just added to the confusion. So, " What's the point?" you ask.

The point is, that whoever packaged the compressor didn't include the correct parts needed for the installation. Add that to the fact that this was the first time I'd encountered this kind of morphodite assembly and well, there you go.

Yah, it's OK to say burn the instructions once you've figured out through trial and error what works and what doesn't, that doesn't fix the issue or make it any easier for the guy (gal) trying to install a compressor with this adapter/retro-fit kit who hasn't, through design or by chance, reads these posts. We are fortunate to have this Forum and the ROJ Forum with it's associated Reatta Store at our fingertips. I am of the opinion that parallels Russ and Harry. The compressor should stay but, Ron, you may want to add a note of some sort on your page that there may be an issue with the appropriate seals to be used when assembling the manifold (Hose Block) to the compressor and maybe provide a link to this thread so that people will be aware of this issue before the compressor arrives on their doorstep. What really should be done is, someone buy the compressor. Check to see that all the correct parts(spacer/seals) and adapters are there in the properly marked bags. Take the ones used on our cars out, measure them and take photos of them. Maybe even show how they are assembled. Make a few easily understood notes of this assembly and then post it on both Forums then linked to TRS. THEN... take a four pound sledge and with one powerful swing, smash the compressor. Rough up the box that it came in and send it back with a note stating that it must have been damaged during shipment and you want a refund.

Now, you might suggest that I take on this project seeing as I have a pretty good idea of how it should come together but... I just don't have the time.

Especially when you consider that it takes me hours just to type out posts like this. Couple that with the bathroom project my wife has me doing currently and you can see how I'm not the best candidate for the task. What would have taken a tile floor guy a week to accomplish has taken me about a month. That's a long time to go without a toilet in the bathroom what with all the poop'n inna bucket and all.

John F.

What really should be done is, someone buy the compressor. Check to see that all the correct parts(spacer/seals) and adapters are there in the properly marked bags. Take the ones used on our cars out, measure them and take photos of them. Maybe even show how they are assembled. Make a few easily understood notes of this assembly and then post it on both Forums then linked to TRS. THEN... take a four pound sledge and with one powerful swing, smash the compressor. Rough up the box that it came in and send it back with a note stating that it must have been damaged during shipment and you want a refund.

John F.

That's a long time to go without a toilet in the bathroom.

John F.

Just an exercise in hyperbole.

John F.

Tell us how you really feel, John...don't hold back.

Thanks Harry, but that won't be necessary now. I've had an adjustment to my meds. All better now.

Also, just kidding about the bucket. There's a toilet in the powder room on the main floor.

And, Oh happy days! Just finished grouting the tiles and in three days I can seal it then install My new

John F.

That might explain why you would think someone should smash a new compressor with a sledge hammer in hopes of getting their money back on it

Installed the manifold back on the compressor tightly, vacuumed, and added 12 oz. of R12. No leaks anywhere with the sniffer!

Between the two packages supplied with the new compressor, there are a total of 5 washer seals, of which 4 have the right diameters. Since two of the washer seals are the same [black], that leaves 3 different thicknesses:

Black: 0.115"

Red: 0.145"

Green: 0.215"

The lower bore is the deepest; Both [black] and [Red] bottomed out, so that left [Green].

That leaves [black] or [Red] for the upper bore. Used [Red] just as John did to give an equal as possible gap between upper and lower connections. Not perfect but close. Black might have worked as well. Gap is over the 1.2 mm, but that's the way it is. See the installed picture below.

Installed the shorter aluminum bushing in the manifold for the [Green] bushing to provide the needed pilot for the bore, required since only one cap screw holds the manifold on. The manifold hose assembly (picture below) must be removed from the car and clamped in wood blocks in a vise to install the bushing. A big hammer is required using a hard wood block on the soft aluminum.

The local GM dealer, in a preliminary search, stated the parts package supplied with the compressor is NLA. Nor are the sealing washers available separate. Seems this came up with the Teves brake accumulators. Good ol' GM. But the car is 25 years old.

The car may be 25 years old but how many other GM vehicles use the same compressors, 800,000 or more. How many GM divisions used the Teves system?

Thanks GM.