300 Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 I have a question concerning my car ('62 300), there is a lack of pressure when the brakes are applied. The car will still stop, eventually, but the brakes do not begin to work until the last inch or so of pedal travel. It seems I've read something about early Chryslers having non-self-adjusting brakes, that the self adjust brakes didn't appear (on the 300s anyway) until '63. If it's of any significance, the car has power brakes (not the accordion looking booster) and the front shoes are worn but show no excessive wear, the condition of the rear shoes are unknown, as I have not yet aquired a hub puller, but I imagine they are not in the best condition. The brakes have been bled thoroughly all the way around. Any more info needed I will gladly provide to the best of my knowledge. I am fairly new to the 300 series and any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopar380 Posted June 13, 2006 Share Posted June 13, 2006 Hi Adam, I also own a 1962 Chrysler 300 Sport, and yes, the brakes on all Chrysler products are the manual adjusting type through 1962. 1963 Was the first year that self adjusting brakes were used and are a different setup completely from 1962 and earlier. The adjustment is quite easy if you have the tool, raise each wheel and adjust. Takes only a few moments per wheel and your pedal will come back up - if that is what your problem is. My own car is pictured on the WPC Club web site at http://www.chryslerclub.org/memberphotos.htmlFYI, if you want better front brakes AAJ Brakes in Portland makes a Disk Brake conversion kit with everything you need and its a very simple bolt on setup which can be done in about 4-5 hours complete. I put a set of these on my 300 this spring as my front drums had burnt spots in them which caused a rumble at high speed stops. Attached is a photo of the setup http://forums.aaca.org/misc/386481-ROTORANDCALIPER.JPGAAJ Brakes is at http://www.aajbrakes.com/Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldefar Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 Hello again Ian.Will these disk brake conversions still accept the 14 inch wheels? As far as I can remember, your 300 Sports have the 413 cid engine and 15 inch wheels. The regular 383 car have the 14 inch wheels you know. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />Thanks, Einar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopar380 Posted June 17, 2006 Share Posted June 17, 2006 Hi EinarYes, they will accept the 14 inch rims with no problem. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldefar Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 Thanks Ian. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />This seem to be a very interesting conversion.For many of us I guess.By the way, I tryed to mail you directly a while ago conserning another question, but couldn't get through. Remember sending me the address to the Chrysler Historical Archives? I was just wondering if they also have an e-mail address, and not just a regular mail address, phone and FAX number. My FAX only works on stuff coming in, and not what I try to send out, so an e-mail addres would have been very convinient. If you don't care to inform here, you can mail it directly to my e-mail address. Thanks again Ian, and take care. Best Regards from Einar, always a <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopar380 Posted June 21, 2006 Share Posted June 21, 2006 Einar, you can contact Chrysler Historical thru their web site at http://www.chryslerheritage.com/pg904.htmIan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300 Posted June 21, 2006 Author Share Posted June 21, 2006 Thanks for the help everybody.Another quick question, since this is my first time dealing with manual adjusting brakes, how do you adjust them?Thanks again in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopar380 Posted June 24, 2006 Share Posted June 24, 2006 The post from Bill below describes the adjutment procedure correctlyIan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300 Posted June 24, 2006 Author Share Posted June 24, 2006 I looked on the backing plate. I do not see the slots you speak of. I know what you're refering to, on the '66 Dart I used to have, on the lower end of the backing plate were two slots that a tool could be inserted and used to rotate the adjusting screw(?) that was use to push apart the shoes.I have the tool (unless something unique is needed for this early of a Chrysler) but on the 300, I cannot find the aforementioned slots. Am I just overlooking them? I've crawled around underneath with a light, and still did not see any slots.Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Bill-W Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 The 1962 Chrysler, Dodge 880 and Imperial had Lockheed brakes, for the last time. In 1963 they joined the rest of the corporate cars and adopted self-adjusting Bendix brakes. Which is why your car has the parking brake on the back of the transmission and not on the rear wheels, there are no slots in the backing plates and your transmission has no "Park" position. If you look at the back side of the rear brakes, your will notice two large "bolts" at the bottom and two other "bolts" half way up to the top. When you check the front, you will notice there are two "bolts" on the sides, but the other "bolts" are located one and the top and one at the bottom.First, your front brakes have two wheel cylinders - one for each shoe and thus one at the top and one at the bottom. The two bolts at the bottom on the rear and top/bottom on the front are the anchor bolts that are used to place the bottom of the shoes. The other two bolts have clips that hold the shoes in place and have flat oval-shaped cams for brake adjusting.To adjust the brakes, your need to turn the bolt with the cam to the point the drum does not turn. Then back off slightly until the drum turns freely. Adjust the forward shoe (one to the front of the car) first and then the rear on each wheel.As the car does not have self-adjusting brakes, you will need to do this every 2,000 miles or so. Back in those days, before self-adjusting brakes and teflon-coated ball joints, a car owner was advised to change the oil every 2,000 miles at which time the various grease points were attended to and the brakes adjusted. BillVancouver, BCAuthor of "Catalog of Canadian I.D. Numbers" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55PackardGuy Posted June 25, 2006 Share Posted June 25, 2006 Bill,I also did not know they kept those Lockheed brakes into the '60s. Pretty old technology! Were the adjustments improved any from the older cars? Reason I ask, is the advice I've received on adjusting Lockheed brakes on a '47 D24 was quite complicated and the "fine" adjustment required a special tool. These newer ones sound easier--or is this the easy way to adjust the brakes on the D24, too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300 Posted June 27, 2006 Author Share Posted June 27, 2006 Thanks. Your help is much appreciated, and you guys have been a great source of information thus far.Hopefully, this will solve my soft pedal problem, and replacing the rear shoes of course, since I do not even know what condition they're in.Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopar380 Posted June 30, 2006 Share Posted June 30, 2006 If you are planning on pulling the hubs off yourself, you need a specific puller to do it. They will not come off without the proper puller. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55PackardGuy Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 mopar380,Is there a name for the specific type of puller that works best, and do ya know where to rent one???? Pulling hubs off a 1947 D24 soon. Looked all over for one like the one pictured at P15-D24 website, but no luck so far. Thanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopar380 Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 I don't think you can buy the originals any more unless you find a used one, maybe on Ebay or something, but there is a guy who makes them up for sale himself, and you can see them on the Chrysler 300 Club web site at this link http://chrysler300club.com/rcmstuff/partsforsale.htmlIt is item # 7 down the list. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Bill-W Posted July 1, 2006 Share Posted July 1, 2006 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bill,I also did not know they kept those Lockheed brakes into the '60s. Pretty old technology! Were the adjustments improved any from the older cars? Reason I ask, is the advice I've received on adjusting Lockheed brakes on a '47 D24 was quite complicated and the "fine" adjustment required a special tool. These newer ones sound easier--or is this the easy way to adjust the brakes on the D24, too? </div></div>The special tool and fine adjustments were needed when installing new shoes to get them positioned correctly against the drum. Once that was done, all the adjusting needed was to keep the shoes close enough to the drum. Chrysler's first use of the Bendix brakes was on the 1960 Valiant followed by the new B-body Plymouth and Dodge Dart/Polara in 1962. The full-size models followed in 1963. By the way, if the Torqueflite transmission has a park position, the car has Bendix brakes. No park position, the car has Lockheed brakes. The 2-speed Powerflite never had a park position and thus was never used on a car with Bendix brakes. And this is something to watch out for when dealing with the 1960-63 models. The 1960-61 Valiant used the A904 with a park position (Bendix brakes) but as the 1960-61 Plymouths and Dodge Darts used Lockheed brakes, their version of the A904 for the slant six engine had no park position.There were also two versions of the A727 in 1962 - with park for Plymouth and Dodge Dart/Polara and without for Dodge 880, Chrysler and Imperial. BillVancouver, BC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55PackardGuy Posted July 3, 2006 Share Posted July 3, 2006 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The special tool and fine adjustments were needed when installing new shoes to get them positioned correctly against the drum. </div></div> Bill,Any idea where to get that tool? Also, looking to rent a wheel-puller that will work with these drums--any ideas on where to find one would be appreciated.Great info and history on MOPAR Lockheed and Bendix brakes! Was there something special about the Lockheed brakes so they were used on cars with no "Park" position? I'm guessing it has to do with the driveshaft parking brake being part of the Lockheed system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300 Posted July 4, 2006 Author Share Posted July 4, 2006 I have a hub puller, got it off eBay. It's a universal hub puller, so I hope it works. If it doesn't, then I guess I'll have to keep looking. Maybe I will find one at the Nats.Thanks for all your help, everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pontiac59 Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 So far as I know the puller is only required for rear drums. Someone is making one for around $125 shipped. Try checking over at www.forwardlook.net on their forums. A guy on the email list has plans to adapt the center-plane brakes used in 63-64 to the earlier cars, apparently it's not too hard. Certain year disc brake Imperial spindles will bolt up, too.To change the rear brakes you may as well dump the tapered-axle rearend for a later one, trouble there is the ones that bolt up are 70-74 'Cuda and Challenger... not easy to find cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55PackardGuy Posted July 4, 2006 Share Posted July 4, 2006 Thanks for the info on the puller. At around $40 an hour to rent, maybe might as well buy one. And yes, it's the rears that are the PITA to get off. Fronts are already r&r'd with new wheel cylinders installed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Bill-W Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Any idea where to get that tool? Also, looking to rent a wheel-puller that will work with these drums--any ideas on where to find one would be appreciated.Great info and history on MOPAR Lockheed and Bendix brakes! Was there something special about the Lockheed brakes so they were used on cars with no "Park" position? I'm guessing it has to do with the driveshaft parking brake being part of the Lockheed system. </div></div>The driveshaft parking brake was first used on the Maxwell around 1915. The service brakes were rear-wheel, external, contracting mechanical units. When Chrysler adopted Lockheed hydraulic brakes (also external contracting - internal expanding did not arrive until 1927), they kept the driveshaft brake. Other manufacturers used Lockheed brakes (Ford, Hupmobile, Mercury, Studebaker, Morris, Wolseley, Hillman) and they had the parking brakes on the rear wheels. Auburn and Graham also used Lockheed hydraulics, and a few of their models had the parking brakes on the rear wheels while the rest had the driveshaft brake.Although Chrysler was the only American manufacturer to use Lockheed's dual front wheel cylinders, British cars Morris and Wolseley used that system as well. Chrysler also has the claim to fame for being the only manufacturer to use Budd's 4-piston per caliper disc brake system.The internal, expanding driveshaft brake as used on your Chrysler was introduced in the 1950's and used with the semi-automatic transmission, followed by Powerflite and Torqueflite. The manual transmission models hung onto the external contracting variety.The correct hub pullers are out there. Just make sure you get the kind with 3 'fingers' that attach to the hub studs/bolts and not the kind that has 'claws'. The latter kind are actually used for removing pulleys not hubs. There have been instances when the claw-type puller, which grabs the drum by the rear outer edges, have broken the rear edge of the drum and thus removed chunks of the drum braking surface. When you use the proper hub puller, you are pulling on the hub and not just the drum.BillVancouver, BC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbdoc Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 There are a few points about Chrysler's Lockheed brakes which I have not seen covered in this discussion. I have a 1961 Chysler Newport, so my brakes are similar to Adam's.1) After the rear drums/hubs have been pulled, always press out the old studs (using an appropriate arbor) thereby separating the hub from the drum. Then press new studs into the hub alone; this will ensure that the hub has only to be pulled for bearing/seal/axle work, not brake work. Of course, have the brake drums turned after they have been separated from the hubs.2) When adjusting Lockheed Centerplane brakes, always rotate both of the brake adjusting cam bolts on both front wheels toward the front of the car (with the wrench handle pointing up for reference) to tighten the brakes. On the rear wheels, rotate the forward adjusting bolt forward, and the rear bolt rearward.3) My original service manuals (circa 1960 - '61) detail how to contour (grind) the new brake shoes to match the freshly-turned drums. Obviously, most of us are not going to do this. Whether it is due to my failure to perform this operation or simply due to the current composition of the brake lining, my car also stops as though it has "anti-lock brakes". I don't like it, but I am not ready to spend the necessary cash (and alter my totally stock vehicle) to install disc brakes. I have replaced every single component of the brake system except drums (which were turned) and the problem persists. My best advice is to get used to it and "plan" your stops; not a very good answer, but there it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55PackardGuy Posted July 16, 2006 Share Posted July 16, 2006 carbdoc,Thanks much for the adjusting info. Is this from a manual or just hard-earned experience? The tip about the new studs is great--less work the next time around!<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My original service manuals (circa 1960 - '61) detail how to contour (grind) the new brake shoes to match the freshly-turned drums. Obviously, most of us are not going to do this.</div></div> I might be able to she some light on this one... if I remember correctly from 25 or 30 years ago. Watching my dad do brake jobs, he always "scuffed" the ends of the fresh linings. It didn't look like a tricky operation at all--but then he could make almost anything look easy--all it did was angle off the sharp edge of the shoe lining. He did it on a bench grinder.Of course, in those days, this was a DANGEROUS operation, although no one knew it at the time. Almost all brake linings had asbestos fibers, and the grinding operation threw clouds of contaminated dust in the air. My dad lived to be 82, and he died of a stroke. It's likely that the reason he never contracted asbestosis after 35 years of breathing brake dust almost weekly is that the asbestos fibers were ground into fine powder, and apparently it's the long fibers that do the damage.Still, it's interesting.As far as the benefits of scuffing or "contouring" the shoe ends, I don't believe that the pulsing "ABS" feel of your brakes would likely result from the lack of lining contouring. I'm pretty sure that the contouring was done simply to keep the new linings from squeaking or vibrating. Pulsing would be much more likely due to out-of-round drums. Even though they were turned, that doesn't always last, especially if the drums are near their wear limit--the thinner the metal the sooner it warps. You might need to replace that "last component" in the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbdoc Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 55PacardGuy,The instructions regarding which direnction to turn the adjustment cam come directly from my '60 - '61 Chrysler manual set. I also find it helpful to tap the brake backing plate in several places with a small hammer during the adjustment procedure; this "loosens up" the shoes and gives you a truer (tighter) adjustment. Simply adjust the cam a tiny bit "too tight", tap the backing plate and spin the wheel. If the drum now turns without interference, you are in good shape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300 Posted July 19, 2006 Author Share Posted July 19, 2006 Sweet, I just keep learning new stuff about my car. Thanks guys, you'be all been a great help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_Bill-W Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There are a few points about Chrysler's Lockheed brakes which I have not seen covered in this discussion. I have a 1961 Chysler Newport, so my brakes are similar to Adam's.1) After the rear drums/hubs have been pulled, always press out the old studs (using an appropriate arbor) thereby separating the hub from the drum. Then press new studs into the hub alone; this will ensure that the hub has only to be pulled for bearing/seal/axle work, not brake work. Of course, have the brake drums turned after they have been separated from the hubs.2) When adjusting Lockheed Centerplane brakes, always rotate both of the brake adjusting cam bolts on both front wheels toward the front of the car (with the wrench handle pointing up for reference) to tighten the brakes. On the rear wheels, rotate the forward adjusting bolt forward, and the rear bolt rearward.3) My original service manuals (circa 1960 - '61) detail how to contour (grind) the new brake shoes to match the freshly-turned drums. Obviously, most of us are not going to do this. Whether it is due to my failure to perform this operation or simply due to the current composition of the brake lining, my car also stops as though it has "anti-lock brakes". I don't like it, but I am not ready to spend the necessary cash (and alter my totally stock vehicle) to install disc brakes. I have replaced every single component of the brake system except drums (which were turned) and the problem persists. My best advice is to get used to it and "plan" your stops; not a very good answer, but there it is. </div></div>Actually, if you remove the drum from the hub and replace the studs, when you place the drum back onto the hub, the two will be joined together as before. If you want the drum to come off the hub without using a puller, separate the drum from the hub and studs and then ream the stud holes in the drum just enough so the drum can move onto the hub over the studs without becoming attached as a unit. This basically what happens on cars with the flanged axles. The studs are forced into the holes on the flange while the holes in the drum are a couple of thousandths wider than the studs. The adjustment of the front brakes on cars with Centerplane brakes also holds true for the earlier models with two wheel cylinders on the front brakes. The Centerplane brakes also have two wheel cylinders on the front. Cars with only one wheel cylinder on the front are adjusted in the same manner as the rear.The grinding of the brake linings to match the brake drums is not unique to Lockheed brakes. I have seen brake shops do it to cars with Bendix and Wagner brakes as well. The troublesome part of the lining is actually the lining ends on each shoe. I have seen mechanics use a rough file or grinder to smooth down the lining ends to make the shoes fit better. If you don't grind the lining to fit the drum, the brakes will eventually wear down the high spots until the lining does fir the drum. So your braking should improve with time. Just remember they are not self-adjusting brakes and they will need to be adjusted periodically.BillVancouver, BC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55PackardGuy Posted July 25, 2006 Share Posted July 25, 2006 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The troublesome part of the lining is actually the lining ends on each shoe. I have seen mechanics use a rough file or grinder to smooth down the lining ends to make the shoes fit better. If you don't grind the lining to fit the drum, the brakes will eventually wear down the high spots until the lining does fir the drum.</div></div> As noted above, grinding the ends will also generally mean quieter bracks as they "wear down." I think this makes sense--the leading edge of a squared-off new shoe will be "stubbed" into the drum surface, and much more likely to set up a vibration like a reed in a wind instrument... "screee." The mechanic I have seen grind down shoes (my father) told me that was the main reason for scuffing them--noise. He ought to have known, he had to keep customers happy for 35 years (some of them the same customers all those years). <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300 Posted January 13, 2007 Author Share Posted January 13, 2007 Alright, I recently had some leave and when I got home used my hub puller to pull off the hubs. The shoes were pretty thin, but not extremely wore. As I have not yet been able to locate either front or rear shoes in any local auto parts stores, I wiped them down with rubbing alcohol and run some light sandpaper over them and put them back on. I adjusted the brakes as suggested here in this thread and the brakes got a little tighter but still way too much soft pedal. One other thing, when I depress the brakes fully when the car is running, the engine slows/bogs a little (vacuum leak maybe), not enough to quit, but a noticable idle change. I checked for any fluid leaks, none. The brake fluid looks a little old and muddy, if that's of any concern, which I will replace on my next leave. So, I still have a really soft pedal, and not a whole lot of stopping power. Anyone guess what is still wrong. Once again, any help is greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300 Posted January 18, 2007 Author Share Posted January 18, 2007 Anyone know where I can find brake shoes for my car. I found some on Napa Online for the rear but I'm not positive they are the correct ones or if they'll even fit. I heard it is possible to get them relined. Is this a good way to go? So far I have had no luck in locating shoes, except for the ones on Napa. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62300sportconv Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 I recently inherited a 62 that had been sitting garaged for about 30 years and it needed all new brakes. I considered going to disc in the front and also pulling the rear axle in favor of a C body from later in the 60's which will bolt right in and make life easier in terms of the parts and the drums.I opted instead to try and re-do the existing since the car is all original. I got drums, pads, wheel cylinders, master cylinder etc...all from Kanter. It all fit and works fine, although I have not driven it more than a few hundred miles. The drums come without studs so you need to re-use the ones on the car.The main problem I have brake wise is the parking brake which originally didn't work. I didn;t know what to do on it so I took it to a local mechanic who adjusted it. Now it works but has the tendency to stick, I have not found a source for any replacement parts for that set up yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300 Posted January 24, 2007 Author Share Posted January 24, 2007 Thanks for the tip. You really got a '62 300 Sport Convertible. You should put up some pics, I bet that's a sweet looking car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300 Posted January 25, 2007 Author Share Posted January 25, 2007 Quick question. What are the brake dimensions for the '62 300 Sport? Kanter offers a brake overhaul kit but they require brake drum size. I searched the internet a bit, but no luck. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62300sportconv Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 I'd have to pull out the bill to make 110% sure but I am 99.99% sure they are 12" from both my memory and the service brake specs that I have in the Imperial / C Body service manual I have. According to the manual only the Newports had 11".Re pictures, I only have a few right now. I just got the car running again in October. I've been doing some cleaning and polishing over the winter and I'll take her out to a park or something and take pictures in the spring. It is a good looker, from about 10 feet.... Before my father in law put it away it was his daily driver. Got about 66,000 miles on it, and unfortunately both doors wer in scraped and were repainted back when so they don't match perfect, but the rest of the car all the paint carpet, seats, chrome, top etc...is original. There's a little rust and the chrome is a little pitted, but overall at first glance it's a real nice looking car. I'll see if I can figure out how to post a picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62300sportconv Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 I think I have attached a picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300 Posted January 28, 2007 Author Share Posted January 28, 2007 that's sweet. way better shape than mine. my car only looks good in pictures taken 25ft away. just recently got a quote from a restoration shop in OH. better than i thought, but still a little expensive. Your car looks really good. it looks to be in really good shape to be original. sweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62300sportconv Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Just curious as to who the restorer is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300 Posted January 30, 2007 Author Share Posted January 30, 2007 A guy named Steve at A1 Auto Restorations in Russia, OH. Right now I'm gonna concentrate on the chassis, electrical, and mechanical (and possibly brake) work that I cannot do at home, mostly because I do not have the tools or facilities to do so, and partly because of know-how. I hate wiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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