What to look for in a '41

[Guest imported_Thriller]

Mark Shaw alerted me to a '41 on eBay that is located here...it looks like we'll go to take a look on Thursday evening. Is there anything in particular I should look for / watch out for?

Auction link

It looks like a decent driver...I still have no storage space and may be out of budget (especially after putting the top down on the '62 today), but it never hurts to look, right?

[Guest BJM]

Matt Harwood is my personal expert on 41's. He has a great website. Hopefully he will chime in. The 41's are the most collected pre war Buick if I am not mistaken. I'm no expert. I've looked at a few 40-41's in the past few years, issue always being distance to pick up.

Completeness is important, especially if it's a dual carb car - the air cleaner and sub components are expensive to get.

[Guest unclefogey]

All things being equal, I would check out the axle ratio on the car. The service manual lists the "daub of paint" on the outer end of the axle shaft method of determining the ratio in additon to the jack it up and read the numbers on the bottom of the axle housing. The car on ebay has compound carburetion so the standard 4.1 would have no paint, with a 3.9 having red paint. Supposedly, a compound carb car would not have a 4.4 with a white daub of paint. I knew nothing about available rear axle ratios when I bought my '41, mod. 46, but I lucked out with a red daub and a verified 3.9 which the service manual does not list as an option for a compound carb 40 series car. A higher ratio would allow you to be a 65 mph impediment to the normal 75/80 mph freeway traffic rather than a 55 to 60 mph impediment.

But then again, these ratios do have their advantages. As I absent mindedly drove to the Spring Extravaganza on Sunday morning, I forgot about the usual speed trap run by the local police department at MN highway 36 and Dale St. Chugging along in the right lane at my usual 60 mph in a 55 zone, a VW Passat passed me doing 70/75 mph. Needless to say, he was given a complimentary piece of paper that will cost him about $150.00. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

John

[Matt Harwood]

Here I am and I have written something that will hopefully help you out a bit:

1941 Buick Buyer's Guide

Please drop me a line if you'd like more information and I'd be happy to help any way I can. It looks like a very clean car, though I'd be sure to double-check the problem areas I list in the buyer's guide. If it's been well restored, I would hope that these issues have been addressed properly. I do see some rust around the passenger's side windshield, so make sure the passenger's side floor isn't rotted--this is where it starts and water leaking in rots the glovebox and keeps the floor wet so that the steel rusts away. All '41s have this problem--I've never seen an unrestored car without <span style="font-style: italic">some</span> rust damage in this area.

On the other hand, it looks like an ideal car to enjoy and drive right now without worrying about road rash.

The axle ratio on Specials, as UncleFogey mentioned, could be 3.9, 4.1 or 4.4. The 4.4 (standard--white paint daub) and 3.9 (optional--red paint daub) were typically used on the single carb Specials and the 4.1 was standard with dual carb cars (no paint daub unfortunately). My source doesn't indicate whether there was an optional ratio for dual carb cars, but Fogey's experience suggests you could have anything you wanted. I would safely assume that it has a 4.1 gear in it. The 4.1 isn't really bad for cruising (the real difference between 3.9 and 4.1 is pretty negligible). It'll be happy at 55 MPH without issues and much better around town. How much highway driving do we really do in our old cars? And remember the limitations of 65 year old brake and suspension technology--how fast do you really need to go? I wouldn't worry about it--the issue here on the board might be a little out of proportion.

I'm also partial to that paint scheme, as it is what I'm planning for my car. Both the silver and the blue are a little too light to be authentic, but it looks great nonetheless. The fact that the radio works, the upholstery is in decent condition and the plastic is not crumbling are all plusses in my book.

I wouldn't pay more than $10 or $12,000 at the outside for this car, however. I wonder what the reserve is?

Hope this helps and drop me a line if you have any specific questions I can help with. Good luck!

[Mark Shaw]

Matt,

Great articles!

We will be glad to put a link in our next PWD newsletter so more can benefit from your advice.

Please feel free to send other articles for our newsletter. We can always use more.

Thanks,

[Guest imported_Thriller]

John - was yours the black and silver car? It's a shame we didn't meet up (that I'm aware of at least).

Matt - thanks for chiming in...I'm at work, so I don't know if I'll have time to read your buying guide right now. I'll let you know if I have specific questions.

Mark - thanks for alerting me to this car.

It looks like I'll be going to see the car tomorrow evening.

[Guest imported_Thriller]

For anyone following this saga, it looks like I'll have to wait until Saturday to see the car. At least I'll have a couple of days to cool my heels.

Matt - I read your information...very informative. Thanks so much for putting your thoughts together and sharing them.

On a similar note, when the guys at the body shop went to search on '66 Wildcat when they were starting to work on my car, my page was one of the first ones brought up as well.

I just checked up on the auction...it seems the reserve was reasonable at least and not super-inflated as some are.

[Matt Harwood]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Matt,

Great articles!

We will be glad to put a link in our next PWD newsletter so more can benefit from your advice.

Please feel free to send other articles for our newsletter. We can always use more.

Thanks, </div></div>

Hi Mark,

Feel free to poke around my web site, especially the Technical Articles section on the left at the bottom, and help yourself to whatever you'd like to use. I'd just like to receive credit and a link to my page and a copy of the newsletter in which it appears.

Between the buyer's guide, the rotisserie construction plans and the Auto Restoration for Amateurs series (which I hope to continue sometime soon), there should be plenty of material for you to use for a while.

Hope this helps!

[Guest imported_Thriller]

Well, we took a look at the car this afternoon. It is quite reasonable as a driver and wouldn't take too much to take it to the next level (relatively speaking). The floor is decent, although it was tough to get at - there was some rubber matting up front that was brittle, so difficult to move. I did see a small hole in the floor on the driver's side. The rocker on the passenger side has some decay, but is fairly solid overall. The fender ornament on the driver's side has some damage. The grill and other ornamentation is very nice overall.

Here's the VIN, which falls into the correct range:

Here's where the mystery starts.

According to the Judging Manual, there is no paint code 551 for 1941. There is for 1940 (Silver over French Grey). Any thoughts on that?

My wife did snap a few more shots, but nothing that is particularly more detailed than the auction. It is a 41SE, so the Jetback styling and the dual carbs fits.

The owner is supposed to be the third owner - he's had it for about 9 years. The previous two owners were in the Rochester, MN area. On top of it all, he was formerly a local bus driver, and we have a few common acquaintances. It's a small world.

I have a bid in on the auction...last I saw it was high...my wife and I will discuss our top bid as they are committed to the auction...we'll put in our maximum and see what happens. The only down side to this car that immediately comes to mind for us is that it will be tough for Suzanne to drive. Of course, there is always our space considerations. John, do you still have that space available for the summer? Sigh.

[Matt Harwood]

Hi Derek,

Exciting news!

On the color code, my only guess would be that it was special ordered. As far as I can tell, you could pretty much have any color you wanted from the GM color library at extra cost. Perhaps the original buyer wanted a 1940 in those colors, but didn't get one in time and bought a '41 but specified the earlier color code. Does the owner know what color the car was before it was painted?

Good luck with the auction!

[Guest ewing]

I believe I can hold that spot for you!

At least till Sept/ Oct.

Good luck with the auction

[Guest imported_Thriller]

It was painted prior to the current owner, so I think it may be anyone's guess.

I got an e-mail tonight though...after having met me and chatting, they decided we were a good match for the car and have ended the auction.

John, try to keep this quiet for the moment, OK? To start with, we'll park Max outside since Suzanne wants this close to home at the moment...we'll see exactly how things work out, but I could certainly make use of the spot until fall...now I need to find another storage spot...sigh.

[Guest ewing]

Congrats!

You know I can keep it hush hush.

Let me know when you may want to move somwething in to the garage and I'll give cliff a heads up ( but not until you say the word.

Maybe it would be a good car to take to the Waverley event?

[Guest imported_Thriller]

We'll have to see how quickly I can get the safety inspection done after getting my hands on the car...that event is in 3 weeks...if I can get it out, it would be fine...of course, Suzanne can always drive one of the others as well.

[Guest imported_Thriller]

Am I the only one confused by the colours in the Judging Manual?

According to it (page 44 near the bottom - 1940 paint code 551), the upper body colour is Silver, lower body colour is French Grey, and wheel colour is Monterey Blue with a Silver stripe.

When I check out AutoColorLibrary, on page 2 it lists code 551 upper as IM-2073 Silver French Grey Poly and the lower colour as IM-2069 Monterey Blue Poly. It isn't necessarily a perfect match for the car, but it makes more sense than how I understand the BCA Judging Manual.

Any thoughts? The cheque was dropped off after work yesterday...I'll have an opportunity to take some additional photos soon. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Mark Shaw]

Thanks Matt, if you are not yet getting our PWD newsletter, please let me know.

[Guest Tom]

Derek, not sure you can take the BCA judging manual as gospel. For example, for '59 colors, it doesn't show Copper Glow code R which as you know is the color of our Invicta.

[Guest imported_Thriller]

Tom,

I don't think of it as gospel...it's put together by humans, therefore errors are possible...it seems to have the correct colours listed, but in the wrong categories. I'm just sort of musing anyway until I get a definitive answer, which may never occur.

[Guest imported_Thriller]

Oh yeah...the cheque cleared today, so I'm going to try to pick it up either tomorrow or Friday. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

[Guest DaveCorbin]

Dear Derek:

I notice in the picture that you posted of the date plate the letters "OK" stamped "IN" and not "out" (before mounting the plate to the firewall). This may be some kind of a sales code for a special order (Paint?) Every Buick that I've ever seen with a letter stamped "IN" like this was odd in some way, like sidemount on one side only. Terry Dunham might be able to help. Don't assume it is just "ok", which would be what most folks would think.

Regards, Dave Corbin

[Guest imported_Thriller]

Thanks for the input Dave.

I picked it up and drove it to the shop where it will get its "safety" inspection...I started a thread with a few photos in the "Me and My Buick" forum.

[Matt Harwood]

Mine also has the "OK" stamped in the plate, and the rest of the numbers stamped out. I always figured that it was a final inspection check to be sure everything on the tag was done properly. Any idea what it might be?