Guest Silverghost Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Snake Headed woman radiator badge logo?40++ years ago I went with my now 90y/o Dad to see an old Antique car in a barn in New York. The car was a speedster with wood-spoke wheels; it appeared to have been a re-bodied speedster buid-up done in the 20s-30s. The unusual thing I still remember is the unusual radiator logo of a woman with writhing snakes for hair! As a kid it made a real impression on me! Does anyone know what make car used this strange unusual badge mascot logo? The badge was in fact origonal... I have never seen another since that day... Any photos of such a strange radiator badge? Dad does not remember this car...we have seen so many over the years... Dad passed on buying this car... He passed on so many great old cars over the years... If I only had a time machine so I could go back in time and buy some of the great antiques and True Classics that Dad passed up 30-40-50 years ago! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6219_Rules Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Brad, I have a clue to the badge image. That snake haired female would be Medusa.Persius was said to have killed the Medusa (her name was Medusa, one of three sisters) by looking into a highly polished shield to cut her head off. He presented the head to Athena who wore it on her breast plate as an Aegis or symbol of protection and power. Medusa turned anyone she looked at to stone, i.e. death.Then I would hazzard to guess that the car was a Minerva. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Sounds like the greek god Medusa, but I'm not familiar with any car that has that badge. I'm thinking it was probably a foriegn car, as some cars from Europe have taken on the greek gods for logos, such as Minerva and Pegaso (Spanish for Pegasus -- which, incidentally, rose up from the blood of the beheaded Medusa). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 RandalI'm not sure how you got from Medusa to Minerva, but the grille badge of a Minerva (like its hood ornament) is of the helmeted Roman goddess of wisdom. It is said she sprang from the head of her father, Jupiter, fully grown and in full armor. Fierce and warlike, she was the patron of warriors, the defender of the home and the state, and the embodiment of wisdom and reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6219_Rules Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Well, West... as I said. Medusa's Head was used by Athena/Minerva as an Aegis on her breast plate.Pretty simple deduction really. But I know next to nothing about that era of automobile so you are probably right. I looked up the Minerva and saw that there was a Hood/Radiator ornament of the helmetted Goddess on auction at Barrett-Jackson this last time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 Sorry, RandalI didn't know that Athena and Minverva were one and the same, so in your original post when you said Athena wore Medusa's head, I was confused by the logic. Knowing that, it now makes sense.Carry on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shop Rat Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">...but the grille badge of a Minerva (like its hood ornament) is of the helmeted Roman goddess of wisdom. It is said she sprang from the head of her father, Jupiter, fully grown and in full armor. Fierce and warlike, she was the patron of warriors, the defender of the home and the state, and the embodiment of wisdom and reason. </div></div>Here is a photo of a Minerva hood ornament. The car is owned by a friend of ours. I am sure that some of you have seen the car at Hershey recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Silverghost Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 This Radiator was all brass...The badge was a very highly detailed cloisonne enamel on brass or bronze that was soldered onto the radiator. It was very large and very unique...The woman was looking straight ahead at you with a stern expression...she had small snakes for hair that were twisted to resemble hair The snakes on her head were bent in all directions. Some had their mouths open. It was a stunning image indeed... In all the years I have been involved around Antique cars, some 45 ++, I have never seen this badge again on any car; or in any car book! There is no doubt in my mind that it was origional and not "Made-Up" for this car.It was highly detailed and very artistc...and very old! The questions remain...What was this car?It was a "Brass Era" pre 1916 car with a very large engine, wood wheels. It appeared to be complete...BUT...I have some question as to it's large speedster body being origional. There was an Otto Speedster, very rare car (only two known to exist) in Pennsylvania, near me, in he 60s-70s that had a very similar design and look... What was this mysterious car?... Where is it now ? Does it still survive ? Any badges like it out there ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrpushbutton Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 I'll ask Don Sommer the next time I see him. He knows more about obscure accessory mascots than anyone. I think the the one you're describing is an accessory rather than a brand's mascot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 I believe Brad is asking about an emblem, not a mascot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Silverghost Posted April 10, 2007 Share Posted April 10, 2007 West is 100 % correct...I am speaking of the soldered-on Radiator badge or emblem on the brass radiator itself (I don't believe this car had a Radiator shell)...There was no radiator cap mascot on this car...just a brass cap! Was there an automobile called Medusa ? Or was she used for some maker's badge/emblem logo?I guess I may have confused folks by using the word mascot...It is a Badge or EmblemNot radiator-cap mascot...(Many of these radiator cap mascots were in fact aftermarket accessory items...and some were very strange indeed)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 There was a Medusa, but it was well into the 1950s or 60s. There was also a postwar Meduza, or something like that.Do you know Bill Williams? He might have an answer. If not, I'll give him a call and see if we can solve this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Silverghost Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 West:I do not know Bill Williams...I only know Don Williams! Any connection here? I would guess the car in question was built between 1908-1914 ??? Best Guess...no newer!This is a real tough one here...It has "bugged me" for years!I did not see it in the Georgano EncyclopediaThanks!Brad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 No relation to Don Williams. Bill Williams is the man who wrote the book, Motoring Mascots of the World. But I think he has a good handle on the emblems as well. I'll tell you what, I'll get started on the phone call to him, if you get started on that "barn find" story for me. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Saxton Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 Somehow the answer must be somewhere in the mythology that was the "Star Wars" fictional saga of the ancient Greeks. The connection may not be simple, because I cannot find any car by the name of Perseus, who slew the Gorgon Medusa using a polished shield as a rear vision mirror for the feat so he would not be turned to stone by looking directly at her face. There were a couple of Argo cars, but they do not remotely match the criterior. Hardly relevant to cars, I am afraid, but venomous snakes in the hair were a matter of fact among some medicine men of the New Guinea native people. One of my father's friends went there as a missionary in the '30's, but became a plantation owner because it was more profitable, and did a lot of his own exploratory travel among people who had never een white man before. He was never eaten, but was taken on hunting expeditions by one tribe, and then on a trading trip up river in which there was no visual or physical contact between the trading parties. One day he went to touch the elaborately arranged hair of his friend, who struck his hand away and explained the reason. The medicine man had put baby snakes into his hair and regularly fed them there. They were comfortable with his smell, but if someone with a different smell touched or approached his hair arrangement they would suffer a strike that was rapidly fatal.Fred Bourke was a wirey, dark-skinned man with black fuzzy hair, and he served as an intelligence reporter for the war effort in Hollandia living as a native during the Japanese occupation of Dutch New Guinea. This was pretty heroic, because his fate if he had been found with the radio would not have been pleasant. Sorry I cant help you beyond the Perseus connection, but it might give someone else the clue to the riddle. Ivan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 BradI just talked with both Dave Brownell (former Hemmings editor) and Bill Williams (author of "Motoring Mascots of the World), and neither of them knew the name of the car with this emblem. However, Bill Williams knows and has seen the badge that you speak of. However, it was not on a car, and, as you are well aware, the emblem does not have a name on it. All of his "emblem" expert friends live in England, so I told him if the subject ever comes up next time he talks with one of his friends, to let me know.Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Silverghost Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 West: I appreciate your efforts, as well as those of your badge/logo experts. It has always been my opinion that this snake-headed radiator badge logo was for a now long forgotten early automobile... We have to remember that there were many start-up car builders that only built a small number of cars...It is possible that no examples of this unusual auto are known to exist today... In some cases only one or two extant examples exsist; such as the three Chadwick Great Six, or the two OTTO cars that exist today. I have seen these cars. I am glad to know that I am not the only one who remembers this very unique radiator badge. I believe some day we will find the answer to this early automobile mystery! It a shame that I never took a photo of this car...or the many others we saw in the 50s-60s-70s...and also a shame that Dad did not buy it so long ago! Thank's for everyone's efforts! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 I would hope that a car like that, that survived into the mid 1960s, would have been saved. I wouldn't count it out yet. I'll post the question to our readership in the next issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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