Front-right tire rubbing wheel well after rack was replaced

[Guest imported_Fox W.]

Hi everyone,

I just had my power steering rack replaced two weeks ago by an independent shop in the bay-area, CA. One day when coming off of a high-way I noticed my pump was really noisy, and power steering was weak and groaning. When I got to work I had found that the pump had nearly run dry and that fluid was leaking fast below. At the end of my work day I filled it up and took it home, researched a little for a shop and brought it there the following day. The rack was replaced, but I found that the ratio didn't seem right, too many turns from lock-to-lock. More importantly though the front-right toe of the tire was rubbing the wheel well plastic shroud. (Pictures below) I took it back and they replaced the rack with another reman. part from another source, and said all was well. Though the ratio seemed right now, the wheel still rubs a bit. They do not know why this is still happening, everything seems in order. Does anyone here have any ideas? I've heard of the brake reaction-rod issue, but no one seems to have more info on what else would I feel or be happening. (Because everything else seems/feels fine)

Here are some pictures to show the wheel well areas, incase this offers any info:

Reatta Wheel Well Pictures

Thanks!

[Guest tomt]

I'm not the mechanical expert here, but I read most of the posts. I suggest you look at recent posts here regarding Brake reaction rod, as they seem to fit. I'm from Chicago and can't say too much about your service, but if a mechanic respects his work, he leaves his office clean.

[Guest imported_Fox W.]

<span style="font-weight: bold">(I've changed my above post since this one to reflect where I am currently at on this issue)</span>

Hi there, thanks for the post. I should have noted that I've read the brake reaction rod threads, and from the pictures I've seen I wasn't even able to find the rod or where it would have been, though this doesn't mean it's missing since I haven't had the chance to take a really good look. I did mention it to them a couple times and they had no real comment. I do know that it didn't do this beforehand, and I kinda doubt they removed something and just wouldn't put it back on. Also, what other symptoms would I feel if it was that? I read that it would be very serious if it was that, and yet the car feels completely fine, and it only rubs just by maybe less than 1 inch when at practically full-lock to the left. If anyone has more details or pictures on this possibility let me know, because I just took the car back there today and they were very nice about it, they put it on a lift, let me look under it with two of their guys and as best they could figure the stops for the rack are built-in, so they said they will gladly order another rack and install that one free of charge of course. Which brings me to a whole other question of if that will be of any help? Unless there is something such as that brake reaction rod that I missing to this puzzle, the best I can figure so far is that maybe this rebuilt rack they put in has been sort of 'genericized' to work with multiple GM cars, and so isn't an exact match for the Reatta. I was hoping someone here may have some experience with aftermarket/rebuilt racks to let me know if this is common or not. Thanks again.

[Guest F14CRAZY]

I can't say I've ever replaced a steering rack. I haven't looked at them much either, so I'm not sure what's involved in replacing it.

These power steering pumps should make very little noise, only maybe when steering at near idle. They're silent compared with like older Ford pumps (you know what I'm alking about). Not much labor in them at all.

Take a look at your control/radius rod, as mentioned. I've ran 18'' wheels on mine and still didn't rub, so there's plenty of room there normally. I'd be wiling to bet that's your issue...have had that a few times here recently.

I am thinking that just your PS lines were bad. In m experince with 5 Reattas, all over 100k miles and mine at 172k, we've never had a leaking rack. Actually never had leaking hoses either, though the pump on my car was getting loud and annoying at around 168k. Just saying that racks are not that common to go bad.

[Guest Kitskaboodle]

If you want, I can get you in touch with my mechanic. He works out of his own garage here in San Jose and does mostly friends/family cars but may be open to others depending on his time. I can ask him if you're interested. He's done lots of work on my Fiero and my Reatta and does good work and he knows what he's doing.

Just PM me and I'll get you his phone number.

Kit / 90 Reatta Coupe / 86 Fiero GT

[charlie1]

I had the rack replaced on my 1989 Riviera last year.

GM rebuilt rack was about $200.00 wholesale. Discontinued Item had to be located.

Had good Buick mechanic replace it at my dealer Costs was about $400.00 including alignment.

Since the car is high mileage I bought along two tie rod ends that were about $50.00. Also replaced idle control sensor that is screwed into the rack for about 40.00

Hope this helps!

Charlie

[Guest F14CRAZY]

Guys, I have to ask, why are these steering racks so flippin expensive? $74.94 at Advance, lifetime warranty, normally in stock

[charlie1]

My personal preference is a GM rebuilt. Do not be suprised if your bargan rack is rebilt in China.

My GM rebuilt may have been rebuilt in Mexico. But just a preference.

Charlie

[Guest F14CRAZY]

$88.49 at NAPA, and its agreed that they sell good parts... I've never had trouble with anything bought at Advance in the past 5+ years. They're pretty good to us, with our commercial account there and they're stuff is generally much better than like Autozone stuff I've been getting USA GP Sorensen sensors, USA TRW front end parts, USA Felpro gaskets (sometimes) from Advance. I've bought a few Cardone things from them and haven't had trouble, rebuilder of the steering rack I linked at Advance. I've got '97 Aurora front rebuilt calipers and that came loaded with pads from Cardone and they're awesome. Hadn't had any trouble at all this season with them and these pads are awesome. Keep in mind I found that it was slightly cheaper for me to buy these rebuild/loaded calipers than to go to the junkyard for the calipers, clean off all the rust, paint them, replace the bleeders, put new grease on the slides, and fit them with new, high grade brake pads.

Please don't misread me. It's not stupid or anything to buy a GM rack, no offense intended at all <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. But to a college student...why pay $600, when I can get like 8 racks at that price with no apparent loss in quality? If I made a list, there's really not much original on my coupe.

Rant over. I guess I'm trying to say that there's no shame in buying parts from higher-tier parts stores, and if you buy the better stuff from them.

[charlie1]

Several years ago I had a non OEM rack installed in another car and did not like the steering ratio.

If I could find someome who could do it I would have my original rack Rebuilt. Just a personal Preference not the most cost effective way.

Charlie

[Guest imported_Fox W.]

Thank you all for your responces on this.

Still hoping someone can give me more info on what I should look for or expect if the brake reaction rod, or control/radius rod were my issue. Or if anyone has other ideas. Thanks.

Reatta Wheel Well Pictures

[ch00044c]

I just had a similar problem with a 89 Reatta a few weeks ago. The drivers side wheel started rubbing in the wheel well. Found that the strut rod that runs from the lower control arm to the front frame under the radiator had broken. This allowed the lower control arm to free wheel.It definitely

threw the ratio off.

I had checked the suspension area several weeks before due to a heavy clicking sound when the car

was backed down the drive into the street, and found nothing.You could see on the broken strut that it had been cracked for awhile and was working its way back and forth until it finally broke completely.

It broke in a tapered area between the 2 large rubber washers so it was not readily visible.

This could have thrown your steering rack off causing it to leak in the first place. Also see if the position of the mount nuts for the shock strut in the engine bay were disturbed by the rack installers. There would be obvious wear marks if they had been.This would change the alignment.

[Guest imported_Fox W.]

Thank you for that post, I will pass on that info to them when I bring it back in to show them what it's still doing. Any addition ideas from anyone is greatly appreciated! Thanks.

[Guest Greg Ross]

The Brake reaction Rod runs from about 1/2 way out the "A" Arm back to the front of the Sub-Frame and has two large Rubber Donut Bushings at the forward end.

As described above the failure happened at the forward end where it flexes.

On my '88 I have rubbing at the back of the wheelwell due to oversized tires. (F-14 Note Oversized tires not just ovesized rims)

In your case if your Brake Reaction Rods are sound then it's as you mentioned, the Generic Steering Rack has stops not set according to GM/ e-Body Specs. Just slightly different geometry.

As a check you could measure your Reattas' turning circle. I suspect you may find your steering turns slightly more at its' stops, hence a tighter turning circle.

[Machiner 55]

Greg. Good post. I was working on mine while you posted yours. Wasn't trying to "one up" ya.

The tire rubbing the wheel well is a symptom of the Brake Reaction Rod having broken. But, besides the rubbing, the car will pull to the side that has the broken rod when you apply the brakes. The harder you apply the brakes, the more agressive the pull. Also, the steering will feel "swishy" while driving. When the rod breaks, it's usually sudden. You may hear a bang or a pop followed by the swishy feeling in the steering. My wife had this happen while driving my Reatta on her way home from work just last week. (she was driving my car because hers had an upper intake manifold coolant leak problem where the engine was sucking in Dexcool). The day I was to work the Reatta, my Son had a roadside emergency in the Riviera and the only car available to me to go to him was the Reatta with the broken rod. (this after a snow storm) That was one interesting trip, let me tell you!

Anyway... It would appear to me that if you aren't experiencing the aformentioned symptoms, aside from the rubbing, the rack is either defective or wasn't proprely installed.

The other thing regarding the rod is that one or both of two other things could be going on. 1.) the rod is worn but has not yet broken through completely and or, 2.) the through hole that the rod goes through the sub frame is wollowed out. Either or both combined would allow the acompaning bushings to move about which would give you a bit of sloppy steering and possibly a clunk or thunk sound while driving over a curb or applying brake.

So if the car tracks straight while going down the road even after applying the brake, feels secure in handling while changing lanes or rounding corners. doesn't make any "funny" noises. then it's probably not the rod.

See attached photos.

[Machiner 55]

Example of a broken Reaction rod. See attached photo.

[Guest F14CRAZY]

or

[Guest Greg Ross]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Example of a broken Reaction rod. See attached photo. </div></div>

Great photo and reference graphic. The appearance of the the Rod end is typical of corosion failure. Water is held within the bushings and gradually rots it out. Gets to the point where the cross section is diminished and the suspension/ shock loads excede its' residual strength. Goes "BOOM"

[Guest F14CRAZY]

I got thinking, and anyone remember how much these sell for new from GM? It might be cheaper to have one custom built, but hard to say.

Like H&H fabrication near here can make dang near anything. We snapped the chrome shaft on a tractor hydraulic cylinder once, and they were able to take it all apart and replace the shaft itself.

[Guest imported_Fox W.]

Thanks again guys. Im bringing it there today to have them check for these things, im taking this info with me. I don't feel the car having any of these issues though, and this certainly started only when the rack was replaced. I do however know that my front-right was once in a minor accident before I had the car, where that wheel was hit. I had a mechanic previously repair any parts there that were bent though, and replace the wheel bearings, however I am told that if the old rack was bent along with it (and no one ever noticed) that things may have seemed fine till a new straight rack was installed. In any case, this being the second rack installed and both from different sources, I don't think I would dare ask them to try a third rack, so if this is just about the built in stops that I will have to deal with it somehow.

[Machiner 55]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I got thinking, and anyone remember how much these sell for new from GM? </div></div>

Part # *22527858 Steering Knuckle Upper & Lower Control Arm (RH)

$142.34 each, plus $31.31 S&H = $173.65

Paid $63.60 for a <span style="font-style: italic">somewhat good </span> used one at the local salvage yard. (They pulled it) and $13.24 for the rod end bushing (PN #FA7196) at AutoZone for a total of $76.84.

Prices include IN. sales tax.

[Guest imported_Fox W.]

This rod goes from the suspension to the front of the vehicle and has a large bushing, right? Those rods look just fine on both sides, is it possible that they can look fine and yet allow the wheel to turn too far inward?

[Machiner 55]

In my opinion, no.

[Guest imported_Fox W.]

I'm really stuck on this one, I just can't see any reason why this is happening still, unless somehow the rack is still at fault, but I wouldn't dream of asking them to try a third rack. Aside from this issue this rack works and feels just fine. One thing I realized yesterday was that if the car is parked and I turn the wheel fully to the left it feels like it's where it should be for full lock, and if I start driving and keep the wheel there then there is no rubbing, however once I start moving if I choose to I can then turn the wheel 1-2inches further to the left then I could before and thats when it can rub. Does this indicate anything?

Thanks.

[Skip5015]

Hi Fox,

My guess is that when They pulled the plastic off the wheel well to replace the rack, They didnt get it installed exactly as it was and this side is sticking out a bit. Probably not Your rack. Only the Guy working on it will be able to tell You for sure. Skip

[Guest imported_Fox W.]

Thanks for your reply. The positioning of the plastic looks just fine, and it's worn through it enough that it's taken off the rubber coating on the metal behind it, so this isn't just a case where the wheel is moving inward only enough to lightly scrape the plastic. At this point I think i'm just going to take it to an alignment specialist.

[Skip5015]

Fox does it look like the wheel stop on that side has been adjusted?

[Guest imported_Fox W.]

Are there wheel stops?? If there is some way to adjust the stop then please let me know, according to the shop there is no adjustment for that, they say the stops are built into the rack.

[Guest DTerry]

Is the steering wheel centered? As in when the car is moving straight ahead?

[Skip5015]

I stand corrected Fox. I went out and Jacked Mine up after looking in the shop manual and sure enough there are no stops. Surely they set the toe in after it was installed????

[Guest alex_houston]

What kind of wheels do you have on your car? Non stock could give you a problem.

[Guest imported_Fox W.]

Hello all, thanks for letting me know for sure that there are no adjustments for that. Hi DTerry, I wish I could check that right now but I dropped the car off at an alignment specialist this morning. Each time they replaced the rack they did have the car aligned, though despite that I do believe I recall noticing the wheel was a bit off from what was straight. My tire size is stock. Thank you all again. Hopefully this shop will be able to figure it out.

[Guest imported_Fox W.]

Update: Arrrgg, this is the repair from hell. So the alignment specialist shop tells me that there is really nothing that he can do, he says the alignment was done right, and the rack is centered properly, they say it must have something to do with either the stops being wrong or the number of turns lock-to-lock. (which he said was 3 with the current rack. (1 1/2 to each side from center)) They said what would be most useful is to have the original core rack for comparison (which the place who installed it says is long gone.) I called the place who installed it and they say that they did compare it to the original and that the second rack put in (the one that is in now) had the same ratio/number of turns. Worse of all, the alignment shop said that this new rack is -leaking(!)- from the left-side by the bellow. ARG!! So I told this to the shop that did the rack and they are having me bring it back in again on Thursday. So far they are still being very helpful and offer without question to take care of it free of charge. However, everyone is still stumped on the issue of the wheel rubbing. The alignment guy said it does also rub on the driver side, just very lightly (I hadn?t even noticed.) His only suggestion at this point, short of getting an original rack from a junk yard for comparison was to have the guys who put the rack in communicate with the company that made the reman. rack and figure out what?s going on.

[Vincent Vega]

Wow. I feel for you. It shouldn't be too hard for a qualified parts guy to cross reference all the racks they say is right. For comparison I bought a rack for a 1988 olds ninety eight. (Yeah, an 88 98. parts guys love that) I bought it from Car Quest. The rack fit just fine and was reasonably priced. It leaked after a month. They replaced it for no charge. I still had to do the work. They did ask some questions about the fittings on it because there were some different ones that would have fit. I don't know how many different racks the General had for your year. Good luck.

[charlie1]

After all you have experienced. It appears that you may have the wrong or defective rack.

I pulled the paperwork on the OEM Rebuilt work for my 1989 Riviera that was installed by my dealer in 2005. The part number was 26045876 List $232.19 Net $197.36. As I mentioned earlier this was a discontinued part and had to be located.

Wish you luck. Sure the problem can be resolved.

Charlie

[Machiner 55]

Don't mean to hijack the post but...

My wife's car is an 1998 Olds 88. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> And yes, it always gives the parts counter guys (and me) pause when they ask for make, model and year. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Fox W. Hope you get to the root cause to the problem with the tire rubbing the wheel well. Let us know the outcome.

[Vincent Vega]

Yep:

Me: It's an 88 98

Dope: Huh, 98 88

Me: No, 1988 98

Dope: Ok, you said 88

Me: Yes, 1988 98

Dope: Ok, 1988 88....

Me: No, 1988 98

Dope: 98 88

Me: No! 1988 Olds 98. 98 Regency

Dope: It only shows 88 Delta not Regency

Me: It's a 1988 Oldsmobile Regency 98

Dope:You Said 88.

Me: I Know I said 88. 88 is the year. 1988. The model is 98 Regency.

Dope:Ok Sir, At first you said 88.

Me: Dial tone.........

[Guest imported_Fox W.]

Heh heh, I would be a confusing model to describe to parts guys. So the place that does alignment work was very nice, they talked to me for awhile when I went to pick my car up from them yesterday evening. He said that their resident expert on steering racks had moved to the east, and so he didn't really know a whole lot about GM racks. However he said that he knows Ford racks have C-crescent spacers at the inner tie-rod to adjust when it gets to full-lock. He suggested again contacting the company that rebuilt the rack, and even GM to find out more info. Though the place that put in the rack says this rack is meant for my car and shouldn't require alterations, he did say his guess is that this rack is for multiple models and that it's just not quite right for the Reatta, which I don't doubt since it's an usual car and from what I've seen it takes a different rack than the Riviera. Does anyone here know if the factory rack has these spacers I mentioned? Thanks again guys. (P.S. I talked to the guy who actually looked over the car and when I asked about the leak he said he doubts the rack has to be replaced again, he said it could just be a line or something, though I have my doubts. <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

[charlie1]

I took a quick look at the gmparts direct catalog for a 1989 Reatta. This is not the most accurate way to look up a part number but it showed GM part number 26045889.

Some of the application notes included

1988-1991 Reatta Gear assembly (a)

For the Riviera 1991-1992 Stamped UC

For Seville and Bonneville Ride handling or Heavy Duty suspension Gear a w/ Handling Package.

After market (Advanced and Autozone) Do not go into this detail.

To further confuse things I looked at the AC Delco Catalog and While it only listed one Rack for a 1989 Reatta. It listed Two Racks for a Riviera. One is 3 turns lock to lock and the other is 3 1/4 turns lock to lock.

I still think you got the Wrong or defective rack. (since either the Riviera or Reatta rack will bolt into your car) Keep in mind that I am by no means the brightest bulb in this pack BUT am just tossing out some ideas.

Good Luck and please post results so we all may learn.

Charlie

[Skip5015]

Fox, I just pulled the front wheels off My Reatta and found My right side was kissing the plastic just like Yours but Mine was easier, it was only the tab on the bottom of the plastic was in front of the radius rod instead of behind it. Putting in behing moved it about 1/2 inch in. Yours looks to be in the right place by Your pictures. Anyway the racks have sleeves on each end that serve as shock absorbers when You pull the steering too far either way.It is behind the large snap ring where the inner tie rod goes. I am just wondering if They used a generic rack that might have different ones in it or possibly a rebuilder put a thinner sleeve on Your right side. That is the only thing I see that stops the wheels from going too far either way. With it leaking already it will be a warranty deal anyway so maybe they will sove Yor problem anyway by replacing the rack.