3800's rule

[jonlabree]

Check out the two GN's and The Viper <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Guest F14CRAZY]

Regal Grand Nationals didn't have 3800s <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Guest F14CRAZY]

Good to know our engines got performance heritage.

That was watered down to 165/170 hp

[jonlabree]

Gee, I didn't know that.. I wonder who put the missleading emblems on them that say 3.8 Turbo?

[Guest F14CRAZY]

Blast, I forgot to delete that post. but I was just messin <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[2seater]

The 3.8's in the Regal T-Type/Grand Nationals are the same basic architecture as the 3800, which came later. I have seen the cars pictured run for several years at Bristol, and Beech Bend at the GS Nationals, and they are stout, although far from "stock". Lingenfelter Corvettes also were "sacrificed" for the Buick crowd too. Not to say that they didn't perform, they were the fastest GM cars of the time period, and are fast even today. Even after GM went to the 3800 with better oiling, heads and roller cam, the older design 3.8 Turbo Trans Am of 1989 paced the Indy 500 in essentially stock form. All of them turn 12's with little work and tuning. The 3.8 liter Buick has been around for a long, long time, over 30 years in fact. The odd fire turned into the 3.8 even fire in the late '70's, went through n/a and turbocharged forms through the late '70's through the mid '80's, became the 3800 in the late 80's, series I, II and III almost to the present. All with the same bore and stroke, but evolutionary changes along the way. They are the same family, sorta like the SBC, but have evolved over time. Contrary to some opinion, the turbo 3.8 Grand National engines were not more efficient, they simply had boost working for them. An early 3800, which is more efficient internally, can produce similar factory hp. with approx. 1/2 of the boost. The stock 3800 heads flow almost as well as the Stage I 3.8 heads of an earlier time. I have have seen the flow ratings (of course I cannot find the comparisons now <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />) but the later engine is more efficient. Many tests from early years of the 3800 indicate it takes about 500hp to blow the crank out the bottom. Someting in the 350-400 hp. range would likely live a long time if treated with due respect.

[padgett]

Err try 45 yars. Introed in 1961 for 1962 model year. Also "originally" the 3800 designation was applied to the FWD version while the RWD stayed 3.8.

[Guest F14CRAZY]

True though, a GN can be made really fast with much less money compared with another car of the same era (like a MC SS)

[2seater]

Yeah, you are right and I do remember it was a 60's engine, sold briefly to AMC and then bought back by GM. I don't remember all of the details so I hedged <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> As a matter of fact my trunk label for my '90 says 3.8. My only point was it is an old design, that evolved and became more refined over a long time. I have a friend with a mid-'70's odd fire 3.8, 4-barrel carb, a little bit of cam and a five speed in an Anglia. The old thing really sings and rev's like crazy. A good match for the light Anglia. As for the GN's, they may be ultimately stronger than the 3800, but it isn't a lot, unless beefed with a lower end girdle and such. The 3800 is internally more efficient, so comparable hp. can be generated with a 3800 at lower boost. The GN's appear to have been underated, probably on purpose, but on paper the later model 240hp supercharged engine has similar stock output, with only a little more than half the boost even after subtracting the drag of the s/c. Some of the cars in the film clip don't actually have 3.8's, they are 274 cu.in. Stage motors, similar to the ones developed for NASCAR racing. They are similar to the 3.8's, same basic design, but beefier and the heads have an additional bolt for each cylinder. Not dissing the GN's, I have seen many really fast ones, and they are impressive, even by modern standards.