Oil pressure

['53 Windsor]

Hi everyone,

This is probably a stupid question, but hey, I'll ask it. First of all, the car is a '53 Windsor Deluxe (265 L-6) Is it normal to have high oil pressure (70 lbs.) while the engine is cold, then after going down the road at 60mph for about ten minutes, have it gradually drop to about 45 lbs., then stop and have it at 15 when idling? Also, my manual says that the oil pressure should be 40-50 lbs. at 30mph, but it doesn't say when hot or cold, or in what gear, 3rd or 4th. The car has a semi auto (M-6) transmission, and you can easily go 30 in 3rd or 4th gear.

Thanks

-Tom

[Bob Kinker]

That is the way all my Plymouth Flathead 6's acted. even after rebuild. Also, what weight oil are you using?

[Guest De Soto Frank]

Tom,

Sounds fairly normal.

Oil presure is highest when the engine is cold and the oil is most viscous. As the engine warms, the oil thins-down, and the pressure drops.

Multi-weight oils had not come along when the factory specs were written on your '53 Windsor.

With a warm engine, as long as it shows some oil pressure at idle (5-10 lbs), and 30-45 lbs. by 35-40 MPH in high range, high gear ("top-gear"), you're in fine shape.

Also, Chrysler engines back to the early 1930's had oil pressure relief valves the vented excess oil pressure back to the crankcase.

How's your hot-start situation ?

['53 Windsor]

Hi,

Thanks for the help. I'm not using multigrade oil, so I thought the viscosity would change. The 10 lbs. at idle had me worried, but if that's normal, then all right!

The hot start seems to be even worse this week, seeing as how the weather is SOOOOOOO hot. I had to crank...and crank... and crank & crank&crank&crank it today to get it fired up in town. I think I might have some water in my fuel as well, because it sputters alot every start (didn't used to sputter at all after a good start-up.) I'm still trying to find out more on the Carter Climatic Control choke, if you have any info.

Thanks a bunch.

-Tom

[Guest De Soto Frank]

Tom...

I went looking for your Carter BBS carb and Climatic Control...according to both my '50-'59 Chilton's and '50 -'59 MoToR's manuals, all Chrysler Corporation sixes used the Carter BB thru 1954 (with the exception of those Dodges that used Stromberg carbs).

MoToR's lists the following carbs for '52-'54 Chrysler six:

Carter BB: E 9 A 1; E 9 C; E 9 C 1; or E 9 B 1 .

While some of the illustration cuts (line drawings) seem to show BB carbs with the integral Climatic Control, all of the illustrations of carbs with electrical controls for the Chrysler Semi-automatic depict the "divorced" Sisson choke (electromagnet) down on the exhaust manifold...

The only Chrysler products listed as using the later BBS carb are the '54-'59 Plymouth six, and the '59 Dodge six. These do have the integral Climatic Control. The recommended setting for those is "index". If you clean the bakelite choke cover off, you should see a notch on the rim, and then on the face, arrows to either side indicating "Lean" or "Rich".

With a COLD engine, loosen the three clamp ring screws on the choke cover just enough that you can turn it easily, and with the thottle held open (a helper may be necessary), turn the choke towards "Lean" until the butterfly is open (or stays open when you move it gently). Note the position of the "index" mark, and slowly turn the cover back towards "Rich" until you see the choke butterfly start to close. When you line the index notch up with the center pointer cast into the carb body, the choke should be fully closed, or nearly so. There are marks to either side of the center "pointer" : these are "1 Rich, 2 Rich, 1 Lean, 2 Lean, etc. (like the timing scale for timing an engine). According to the book, the choke should be set on the center mark "Index" (mid-point).

If the choke is functioning correctly, with the engine "cold" , the choke should close fully when the throttle is opened enough to allow the fast-idle cam to "set". When the engine is warm, the choke should not try to close at all. There is also a "choke-pull-off" piston inside the choke that is supposed to open the butterfly slightly once the engine starts and develops vacuum; plus there is usually a 1/4" tube running from the choke housing to a "stove" on the exhaust manifold, to pull warmed air into the choke and help it to open, as the engine warms-up.

( Has the carb ever been overhauled since you've owned the car ?)

Two other things come to mind about this hot-start business:

1) Manifold heat control valve: this is a thermostatic flapper valve in the exhaust manifold which causes warm exhaust gas to be circulated around the center of the intake manifold when the engine is cold, and help vaporize the fuel mixture and speed-up the warm-up process. Frequently they are seized, and if they seize in the warm-up position, it can cause the intake mixture to overheat, causing hard starting when hot, engine overheating, and poor peformance. Check to see that this valve works freely.

2) Fuel pump heat shield: many (but not necessarily ALL) Chrysler sixes had a heat shield between the fuel pump and the exhaust manifold: basically a piece of sheet metal bent at an angle, and mounted on a 3/16" stud coming out of the top of the fuel pump. These sometimes were removed when adjusting the valve tappets and never re-installed. When missing, the heat radiating from the manifold on a hot engine when parked can cause the fuel in the fuel pump to boil, and create a vapor-lock situation. If your car has a long thin rod sticking up out of the fuel pump, going nowhere, then I'd bet the heat shield is missing.

Have you established whether the car is starved for fuel or flooded with too much fuel when it won't start "hot" ?

['53 Windsor]

Hi Frank,

The heat riser is working fine. It looks as if there was never any heat shield on the fuel pump, because I don't see any place to bolt it on. It is so far from the engine (and not directly above any parts) that I don't think the fuel would boil at this point. (By the way, did they run fuel filters back then?)

As for the carburetor, it is an E9A1. The only electrical connections on it are the kickdown and dashpot, both for the semi-auto tranny. I looked closely at the exhaust manifold, and I don't see how a choke could even be attached to it. Furthermore, the manifold looks to be built for the integral choke; there is a special area for the "hot air tube" to the choke. Maybe someone switched the manifold and carb before I got it, but the guy I bought the car from said it was all original. My engine number puzzles me though. The car's code is C-60, for the Windsor Deluxe of '53. But my engine number is C53-26466. Does the C53 at the start tell the model code of the car, or am I barking up the wrong tree?

Thanks a bundle.

-Tom

[Mrbuick714]

It was my job,back in 1940,to get used cars ready to sell. On Mopars,we used metering orfices to the camshaft(I think they were "Thexton" products). I took out all the passage plugs on the left side of the block,and the metering orfices went right in.They would restrict oil flow to the cam,thereby increasing oil pressure. The vendor even put in one with threads to install the oil filter line, These were a complete succss,no problems whatever! Ralph Crisp BCA 2399

[Guest De Soto Frank]

Tom,

According to "Standard Catalog of Chrysler: 1914-2000 ", while the model-code for your '53 Windsor Deluxe is C-60, the engine numbers for the flat-head six (265 cid) were coded C-53, with numerical sequence beginning with C-53 - 1001 thru C-53 - 82918.

I cannot find a Chrysler vehicle coded C-53.

Sounds like your engine is correct. The MoToR's and Chilton's manuals usually get their texts, specs, and even photos from factory sources, but they're not always the final word...

The carb # is correct for your model...(according to MoToR's)...so I guess they went over to the integral auto choke...the older Sisson choke bolted to the top of the exhaust manifold runner, next to the head, on a flat boss. Usually it was positioned to the front or rea of the carb. Chrysler used the Sisson choke from 1935 thru '54 (?).

Fuel filters: at this time (1946 - '5?) Chrysler was using an "oilite" bronze fuel filter mounted on the pick-up tube in the tank. There were no "in-line" filters from the factory. The original fuel pump may or may not have had a sediment bowl on the bottom.

Regardind the tank filter: if water (condensation) has accumulated enough in the tank, it can partially restrict that bronze filter (supposedly the pores will admit gasoline, but not water). Might be worth draining the tank - there should be a drain plug on the bottom side.

So it sounds like you have the right carb on the right engine; my earlier post describing the choke adjustment should get you close...make sure the choke butterrfly operates freely; if it's gummy, shoot the shaft and linkages with 2+2 or other cleaner.

I think we need to establish whether or not your carb is going dry when hot, or percolating and self-flooding (black smoke when it finally starts?).

Did you get the oil leaks solved with the Fluid Torque ?