1955 Packard dual quad (2x4)

[carbking]

Rather than include these pictures in the other thread, I have started a new thread. Issues from absolutely original:

(A) The color on the carburetors is not perfect (recoloring rarely is)

( The street ell attaching the fuel filter to the lines is modern production, and thus is very slightly different in shape (so close one would need to place the two side-by-side to tell the difference)

© The choke lines, and fittings were fabricated from a picture. Originally, where the choke line had the "tee", was probably a welded line, rather than a brass tee.

(D) The sheet metal heat baffle was fabricated from a picture

All other items are either reconditioned original, or exact replacement.

Jon.

[carbking]

Drivers side:

[carbking]

Passengers side

[carbking]

Front

[carbking]

Rear

[Packard8]

Thanks Jon, great photos and nice workmanship. Do you (or anyone else) know if there was a difference in the shields from '55 to '56? My car (1956) has a shield that is attached to the two front most cap screws of the lifter-valley cover and extends up only to the base of the front carb. It appears to be factory-made as opposed to something Cooter fabricated from a soup can. Of course I'm not sure what is original and not on my car as it is currently wearing two Carters.

Thanks,

John

[Guest Randy Berger]

I'll try to attach this picture - best one I have of friend's Caribbean engine compartment.

It shows the front shield pretty good. I can zip these pics of his restoration if anyone is interested. He was very particular - notice the factory air and he has an underseat heater.

YFAM, Randy Berger

[Guest imported_Packards1]

Since we are talking carbs, I need a rear carb for 56. The carb was missing from my car when I bought it. I have a complete 55 setup including manifold, linkage, carbs etc. I will be using a few pieces of it to rebuild my 56 unit. Joel

[Joe Block]

That dual carb setup look powerful for compared to my 356 straight 8. Got a Edumds dual to install someday.

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

CarbKing: originality not withstanding what is your personal preference???? Carter WCFB or the Rochester???? OR, what would be your preference of ANY carb to fit the Packard V/8's

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

CarbKing, do u sell COMPLETE (not just gasket set) overhaul kits for the Carter or Rochester??? Must include accelerator pump. Do u have the accelerator pump seperatly for sale????

[Packard8]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">CarbKing, do u sell COMPLETE (not just gasket set) overhaul kits for the Carter or Rochester??? Must include accelerator pump. Do u have the accelerator pump seperatly for sale???? </div></div>

Most O/H kits I've seen do have the the pump. In fact you will end up with a bag full of leftover parts when you are through because they usally include gaskets, seals etc. for several different variations of the carb used on different applications.

I think Carbking's website lists complete rebuild kits for sale. I've had good luck with the NAPA house brand too (Niehoff, I think).

[Packard8]

Thanks Brian,

I'm not sure of the function of the lower shield, as it seems to do little more than protect the front of the manifold, but maybe I'm missing something.

Speaking of missing something, do you recall who had the upper shield repro on ebay? I need one and I missed that auction. If you see another, pls give me a shout!

Thanx

John

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

based solely on carbkings photo it is my guess that the shield is to keep the fan and cold air from cooling off the choke control spring while the the exhaust is trying to heat it up. On the single carb models the choke control is protected by the air cleaner.

So its not really a heat shield but rather a cold blast shield.

[carbking]

PackardV8 - both the Rochesters and Carters (IF CORRECT ORIGINAL UNITS) will perform at a high level of excellence! In fact, far better than ANY out-of-the-box aftermarket unit!

The Carter carburetors enjoy a better reputation (WITH THOSE WHO MODIFY ENGINES); as Carter was THE high performance carburetor company during the 1950's, and actively sought the hot rod market. Carter offered many tuning parts (different profile rods, different tension springs, a plethora of jets, etc.; as well as technical support). Rochester offered pretty much only jets and power valves; but NO technical support. Most casual rebuilders of Rochester carbs are unaware of the various power valves which were offered.

If you place the original carb (either Carter or Rochester) on an original engine; you probably couldn't tell the difference in power, driveability, fuel economy, or reliability. The Carter would get the nod if one frequently drives from low altitude to high altitude, as one could acquire high altitude metering rods, which are easily changed. Calibration of the Rochester for altitude is somewhat more tricky. Either unit, if properly restored, should give thousands of miles of trouble-free use (assuming the owner changes the filters at recommended intervals, and whereever possible, avoids ethanol fuel).

As to the repair kits: this is not a commercial forum, and I try not to abuse the unwritten (or written) ethics for posting. Please make that type of request by other means. One great feature of these forums are the poster's "profile".

Jon.

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

CarbKing: Thanks for the carter/Roch critique. I prefer the carters myself and if I ever find a dual quad manifold i'll go carter despite the lack of originality. Probably go Carter on anything. Its been my experience that most people prefer the Rochester but never really knew why.

So then, u would not recommend the Edelbrock 4 bbl over the Carter or Roch????

At least post the link to your web site as a standard signature in your posts. Why not. Your contributions are good and a link i would not consider as advertising at all. I doubt that anyone else will either. A link will get more attention and is more likely to be seen and accessed rather than accessing a profile. I never thot to access the profile until u mentioned it.

[Bill Kennedy]

All you have to do is click on his name and his profile has the web site address.

[carbking]

PackardV8 - if you wish to use other than the original carbs (Carter WCFB or Rochester 4GC which were calibrated for the Packard engine), the following almost universally applies:

(A) the air inlet for your air cleaner is smaller than the 5 and 1/8 of modern aftermarket carburetors.

( about 1961, the intake manifold bore spacing was changed. The center-to-center of the throttle bores from side to side (fender to fender) was increased, probably necessitating the use of an adapter to place a modern carburetor on your original Packard intake.

© modern aftermarket carburetors are equiped with an electric choke, which will completely open MUCH quicker than the original. If you live north of the Mason-Dixon line, this can cause engine stalling at the first stop sign with only a slim possibility of restarting until you wait a couple of hours.

(D) All modern aftermarket carburetors of which I am aware are calibrated for a Chevrolet engine (largest demand). When choosing a non-standard carburetor, one needs to consider displacement, operating environment (street or race), and engine style ("torquer" or "screamer"). Your Packard engine is a torquer. Chevrolet engines (at least those for which the aftermarket carbs are calibrated) are screamers. While we do not work on the post 1985 Carter AFB carbs (major redesign), were you to purchase a pre-1985 Carter AFB, FOR BEST RESULTS, you would need to change the main jets, metering rods, vacuum piston springs, secondary airvalve; and re-machine the idle jets, restrictors, and idle airbleeds to recalibrate for the "torquer" fuel requirement curve. Since Carter did not sell a AFB for the Packard, there are no specifications, you are your own engineer. Please note that I said "for best results". Carburetion can be anything from the factory designed carburetor (normally best after about 1950 for non-modified engines) to hiring a 15 year old to stand on the running board (older vehicles) and pour gas into the engine out of a boot! Both will work, but one works better than the other.

Now, having pointed out the major issues; the AFB and/or especially the Rochester Q-Jet and Carter Thermoquad are superior in design to either the WCFB and 4-GC. If one wishes to fabricate an intake for the Q-Jet or TQ, and spend a lot of time (and money) with recalibration; it should be possible to gain both power and economy on the Packard engine (but at what cost?). This would be a labor of love for a retired machinest.

I wouldn't even consider the post-1985 AFB's with the redesign.

As to your comment on the signature line, some would object, and I prefer not to alienate those who allow all of us the use of these forums.

Jon.

[carbking]

Brian - without doing the research, at first blush, it would seem the 2394s would work, with minor tuning. I would not wish to state this positively without really checking into the calibrations; but it would certainly be a place to start.

We did one 2x4 for the Studebaker for a customer who wanted a very reliable "driver" with excellent "manners". For this, we used a pair of the smaller Carter AFB series carbs part number 9400s (400 CFM) and hooked them up to run as a single unit. These had the electric chokes, but this customer lived in southern Georgia, so the quick turn-off of the choke was not a problem. We fabricated adapters to adapt these to the intake manifold, and as I recall, changed the metering rods to a "Pontiac" profile (Carter never offered the AFB for used on the Packard, so we were "guessing"). The air cleaner we used was a replacement Ford oval air cleaner from the early 1960's with the unpunched base. Customer punched the base after installed the dual quads on the car. We also fabricated some custom fuel lines with the Carter glass bowl filter, and the solid linkage.

This system was not tested on a dyno, or with an exhaust gas analyzer; but the customer WAS delighted, and still buys from us, so I guess we guessed fairly well.

Since you suggested that a link was not too much of a "no-no", I would like to reference one page on our website that will help explain the selection of an aftermarket carburetor or carburetors. One should pay particular attention to the chart of both primary and secondary CFM ratings. For street use, the primary CFM rating is normally MUCH more important that the WOT rating.

Aftermarket carburetor selection

Jon.

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

Is the following statement correct????

The front carb feeds ONLY the FRONT 4 cylinders and the rear carb feeds ONLY the rear 4 cylinders.

[Guest imported_PackardV8]

The 'wheel horse' cold air shields looks as described as a valley shield.

I am guessing all of these shields are to block cold air from cooling off the FRONT carb and manifold to the extent that there would be a great temperature difference between front and rear if such air shields were not used in very cold weather. It is also quite possible that the different shields may have been offered in different regions???

[Packard8]

Thanks Brian,

I've been out of town and just saw your post. I'll contact the guy re the upper shield and see if it was a "one off" or if someone makes them. The lower shield looks identical to what is on my Wheel Horse (er....Packard). I'm not sure what the function is except (as mentioned) to perhaps keep cold air off the front of the manifold so the temp would remain more even front to back.

Thanks again for looking up the ebay ads!!

John