Is this normal? 4T60E acting wierd...

[1992ToronadoGuy]

This has just started with the cold weather ( only 7*F here ), and this is my first winter with my 92 Riviera, so I have some stupid questions.

First off, I've noticed that when the car is really cold, the tranny doesn't shift out of first, so I end up crusing at about 4500RPM. I try to take it easy and dont let get past 3 grand, because that cant be good for the car

Anyway, today, I was driving on the highway, the car was cold, I was stuck in first again, at about 3000RPM. Then, finally after about 20 seconds, it shifted, and the revs dropped to 2 grand. Then they dropped to 1500RPM, the car vibrated for a second, the revs went back up to two grand, then went down to 1500 again, vibrated, and went back up to 2000RPM, and stayed there. I was at about 40% throttle the whole time. Now, I'm assuming that when the revs dropped that 500RPM, the torque converter was going into lockup, but is it normal for it vibrate like that, and then go out of lockup, then go back in, all without any throttle change?

It seems after the car warms up, it operates normal again, but should I be concerned with it not shifting and locking up funny like that?

Tranny fluid level is OK, and fluid isn't discolored or burnt. I also just did a pan drop in the spring.

What do you think?

Thanks a bunch!

[Guest wally888]

I know little of Trannies but wondering if you replaced filter when you dropped the pan?

I had a filter almost stopped up on an 89 I bought. Was making a loud whining sound(fluid under pressure going through small orifices) and had shift problems. All went away after fluid and filter change.

[sahein]

The 4T60E is an electronically controlled transmission. It there is a command to shift and the transmission does not respond, a fault code should be set.

[1992ToronadoGuy]

I just checked the codes, and there were none. I also replaced the filter when I did the pan drop, of course.

Any ideas???

[Guest EDBS0]

I am not a transmission expert nor have I stayed (or would stay at a Holiday Inn Express) so this is just my opinion.

First I suspect that you are not really in first when you think you are. Likely at least 2nd. But I don't know My 89 in diagnostics will tell me which gear I am in as I drive.

Second, for the 89 there is an OD lock out that is temperature sensitive. If the coolant is still cool it will not shift to OD. I believe that the temperature has to be at least 140 or 145 degrees before the transmission will shift to OD.

Perhaps you are still too cold to shift to OD when you start and all is normal. I also use synthetic transmission fluid when I flush and do the transmission filter. It has better low temperature properties.

You could have a stuck thermostat or it is partially open one.

Just my 2cts, don't know for certain.

Best of the season to you and good luck

[1992ToronadoGuy]

OK, thats what I wanted to hear, because as soon as it warms up, it shifts fine. I also just replaced the t-stat.

I'm more concerned about the vibrations than anything.

Thanks, and happy holidays to you and yours...

[Guest imported_barra]

Is it possible that you have a broken or about-to-break transmission mount or engine mount? Your description sounds like a drive-line vibration.

[padgett]

I have a 92 TranSport with the 4T60E and it has never acted like that (of course to my knowlege it has never seen 7F either). That said is there any chance there is any water in the trans fluid ?

My first thought would be to check all of the vaccuum lines and the TPS sensor (if the ECM is told you are at WOT it will hold each gear to the shift point). Second would be to flush and refill the transmission.

If you would give speed vs rpm that would be helpful.

Would troubleshoot the non-shift first and then the vibration.

[1992ToronadoGuy]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you would give speed vs rpm that would be helpful.

</div></div>

It funny that you say that, because my speedo isn't working either. I already made a thread on that one, though...

I will try to get give you some speed/RPM readings later...but on estimate, I will turn about 4500RPM, but only move at about 35-40MPH, and it accelerates very slowly...

I dont think the tranny fluid has water in it, like I said I just dropped the pan, and dont see how it become contaminated between then and now. Good idea though, and I will drop the pan again this spring. I'm a little weary about a tranny flush on such an old and high mileage car. I havent heard good things about that...

Anyway, today, it nearly standed me. I had warmed it up; so it was shifting fine. Then I had to pull over and put it in park, to get my faceplate out of the glovebox. Then when I put it back into OD, the damn thing wouldn't go faster than 2-3MPH, at WOT ( 5100RPM )!!! I thought I was in neutral!!! I then tried accelerating from first, second, and the regular drive, all with the same result!!! Finally, I decided to turn it off and restart it, only so it could do the same thing again...

Then I decided that I would make it to work, come hell or high water. So I threw it in drive, began moving very slowly ( 5MPH, tops ) at very high RPM (4500+). Anyway, I finally got momentum, and it started operating normally ( although it improved slowly) again. Now it runs like a dream...

Any ideas on what the heck could be going on???

[Guest EDBS0]

[quoteAnyway, today, it nearly standed me. I had warmed it up; so it was shifting fine. Then I had to pull over and put it in park, to get my faceplate out of the glovebox. Then when I put it back into OD, the damn thing wouldn't go faster than 2-3MPH, at WOT ( 5100RPM )!!! I thought I was in neutral!!! I then tried accelerating from first, second, and the regular drive, all with the same result!!! Finally, I decided to turn it off and restart it, only so it could do the same thing again...

Then I decided that I would make it to work, come hell or high water. So I threw it in drive, began moving very slowly ( 5MPH, tops ) at very high RPM (4500+). Anyway, I finally got momentum, and it started operating normally ( although it improved slowly) again. Now it runs like a dream...

Any ideas on what the heck could be going on???

and you still say that the transmission fluid is not brown or smelling burnt.

Time to get professional help, EDBSO

[VicW]

Getting a manual for your vehicle will go a long way.

A web search will to.

Resolve the speedo problem.

The 4t60E is controlled differently than the 4t60.

There is generally a tranmission thermostat.

Check the external wiring.

Transmission shop analysis.

Let it warmup before you start out.

Some of the best troubleshooters I have observed frequent this forum, but without a manual to work from this one is an innoculator valve hunt.

Keep us posted. What you learn will help those that are working on integrating the newer powertrains with the Reatta data stream.

[sahein]

A bad modulator, broken sprag in the torque converter, or problem with the forward clutch will act like that.

[padgett]

Once had a bad modulator in an Astre that was sucking the trans fluid though the vacuum line, burning in the engine and out the tailpipe. Very little smoke but was losing quite a bit of fluid without any obvious leak. Hair tearing time until I happened to pull the vaccuum line and trans fluid dripped out.

Your latest sounds like very low fluid level that is expanding as it warms up.

[1992ToronadoGuy]

I insist that the fluid level is perfect, and the fluid is bright red and smells new, even as of this morning.

I also did a little poking around, checking the wires and whatnot.

That is about the most I can do in this weather. ( its a lovely 3 degrees today )

Thanks for all your input, I will take all your suggestions into consideration. This summer I plan on doing major work to the car, and I have my repair manual, so get ready Riv!

Happy holidays.

[1992ToronadoGuy]

*UPDATE*

Now the car doesn't move in any gear unless it is warmed up to about 175*.

Also, in the midst of this drama, when I was trying to get it to move, it set the SES light, code E024 ( VSS circuit ). Now, the speedo has never worked ( read my old post about that ), but the VSS is new and quite frankly, I dont understand why it threw that code. It never has before, and I wonder if it is related to the tranny problems. Anyway, finally, when the car was moving, the SES light turned off, and the code was stored as history, not to return yet.

I just dont get it

[sahein]

Vss is a must for the electric shift transmissions. There can be no shift point calculations without it. It will default to 3rd gear as a limp home mode. Continued starting out in 3rd gear will damage the trans. Get the Vss fixed as soon as possible.

[1992ToronadoGuy]

Hey, now we're getting somewhere. Although I replaced it twice within the last year ( trying to fix speedo ), I'll replace it again. Hopefully Checker Auto will warranty it out.

The code hasn't come back yet, but I'll play it safe.

Thanks

[Red88Coupe]

try the shift solonoids will cause similar problems have to drop the side pan off the tranny. SHould fix it it fixed mine and many others ive worked on.

[Guest imported_Flash]

No personal expertise here and not trying to present a way off base idea......but back in the early '80's as a test driver in Milford, we had problems with catalytic converters plugging which in turn severly affected speed. Can't tie it in to either the temperature or codes but just an FYI.

[1992ToronadoGuy]

I dont think it's the cat, the exhaust is recent, and it just doesn't feel like it.

Anywho, yesterday, it stranded me again, right in the entrance to Wal-Mart. How embarassing

I had spent about an hour or so in the store. I got out, started the car, and let it warm up about 5 minutes. Thinking it was safe, I pulled away, made it fine to the exit, stopped and couldn't move again. At first I thought I was stuck in the snow, until I realized that the front wheels weren't moving at all. Tried every gear with no movement in any. It threw code E024 again, VVS circuit. Finally, it started to move again slowly in reverse only. I then tried starting from second gear, started to move at around 2 MPH, while I was bouncing off the rev limiter, 5500RPM!!! ( I felt like I was playing a video game or something ) Then, I rolled out of the lot, and it began shifting fine again! ARGGH!!!

Anywho, today, I put in Lucas tranny treament in before work, to no avail. It pulled that crap again.

Never in my life have I experienced something like this.

Its starting to look like an L67 and 4T60E HD will find a place in my car this summer.

[sahein]

My guess would be a bad torque converter

[Guest C.F.Massie]

I'm with Sahein with this one, My wifes Taurus is on its third transmission in only 113K. The problem FORD explained is that for a period of four years they had bad torque converters in their trannys. The torque converter can't build up enough pressure to engage much less shift. Seems this may be the same issue with your problem.

[Reatta45]

My guess ? since this post is over 2 years old, and no reposting as to what happened, he may have discovered that this is not the purpose of a RPM limiter?

?started to move at around 2 MPH, while I was bouncing off the rev limiter, 5500RPM!!!? ? He may no longer have an engine to spin anything <img src="http://forums.aaca.org/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />? KennyV.