conv top: what goes down, does not come up!

[65_wcat]

I've got a very frustrating problem that I hope someone can help me with.

I decided to replace the top cylinders on my '65 Wildcat. When putting up the top, the right side would come up pretty far and then the left side would pop up sharply. After tht point, the two sides would move in synch and top would come up normally. I didn't want to bend the top frame, so I decided to replace the cylinders.

Now, after replacing the cylinders, it struggled to come up once. After that, the right side would lift up a little but the top wouldn't come up at all!!!. If I gently lifted the left side while my wife hit the switch, the top would eventually come up.

I've replaced the pump, bled the system a few times (don't see any bubles in the lines, even oiled the hinges, but to no avail. The top does go down smoothly.

Any ideas??????????

Thanks.

Greg

BCA #38869

[Guest imported_moopar2ya2]

Still sounds like air in the system to me. I had a similiar problem on an Impala. Disconnect the top and run the cylinders up and down several times then reconnect. Careful with the top disconnected as you can pop the tops off the rams. Have you checked the shop manual? I will review mine and see if I can find further hints.

[NTX5467]

What about the hydraulic lines? There have been some cases where brake lines would look good on the outside, but be "delaminating" internally and not letting fluid flow freely. Usually, the inner layer will come apart and let fluid flow one way but not the other, depending on how it came apart and resisted fluid flow past it.

Air in the system can be a problem too. If you can configure some way to do it, you might seal the plug where you put fluid into the reservoir and then use a hand pump to pull a vacuum on the reservoir. This should get the air out of the system, just as it does on the brake systems at the assembly plant when the cars were built. Seems like on of the convertible supply companies had a gallon of fluid they sold that came with the appropriate installation tool to add fluid without aerating it? Maybe a "correct" way and position to add fluid to the reservoir too?

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[65_wcat]

Thanks for the responses.

I can try bleeding it again. The lines looked fine, fluid looks like it' smoving in both directions.

Any chance the top mechanism itself needs to be adjusted? Anyone out there ever done it before????

Greg

[Guest Skyking]

Greg, there are adjustments in certain areas. I had to adjust the rack on my Invicta in order to fit the boot properly. I don't know if there are any adjustments for your problem. Best thing is to buy a body manuel for your car. It should tell you there.

[Guest imported_moopar2ya2]

As Skyking recommends a manual is very helpful. My Pontiac shop manual had lots of detailed diagnostics for the top. However they did not specifically address your problem. They mostly deal with alignment and fit. But if you maybe went through that, it might fix a binding problem. I found with my other top system (Impala) that had been completely emptied out, that I had to overfill it (otherwise I just seemed to suck more air into the system) and let it bubble back as I moved the cylinders in and out. For the first bunch of strokes with no load it was quite a while before the second cylinder even started to respond. This took some time and was a bit messy. I am sure my 47 that has been in storage for about 30 years will be interesting.

[Reatta Man]

Agree with moopar.

I had a similar problem with my '65 Wildcat convertible when I bought it in 1983. The system was so badly contaminated with air that I couldn't get the top to go up and down the way I knew it should. Out of frustration before giving up, I got a piece of rubber hose about 6" long, jammed it into the access hole on the top of the pump, and then into the bottom of a funnel. I kept about 1/2" of fluid in the bottom of the funnel and cycled the system up and down a few times. I got lots of air pushed up the hose into the funnel, but every time it sucked back down again, it was pulling pure fluid and no air. Every time the pump would pull the fluid down, I added more to make sure it only pulled in fresh fluid rather than getting air back into the system again. It was messy (use a drop cloth or old bath towels to keep the fluid off the car) but it seemed to work perfectly.

That seemed to get all the air out of the system and I haven't had any trouble with it since then.

By the way, you are using ATF fluid, right?

Good luck.

Joe

[65_wcat]

Thanks for the response.

Actually, I'm using brake fluid. That's what was in there before.

However, I may have found the problem (or it found me???). It appears that part of the frame mechanism was binding. I finally got the top to go up almost normally. However, I heard a loud pop. I noticed that one of the frame screws on the left side rail had sheared off!!! The top went up much faster however, one of the side hinges would then dangle off the side when the top was raised. I have a bandaid on it now, but I need a new screw. Anyone have one??? It looks like a large flat head screw on the interior of the frame. It goes through a plastic bushing and has a lock washer and nut on the outside of the frame (you can see it as the top is folding down). If I remember right, there are two similar ones on each side rail.

Thanks.

Greg

[Guest imported_moopar2ya2]

You might try hydroe for a screw but maybe first try a local fastener shop. Hope this is easily repaired. You should consider switching to ATF. Most manufacturers did this around the mid 60's. The brake fluid tends to pick up moisture and can set up and crystalize with lack of use. I believe on the older cars they recommend changing out the fluid annually. The ATF is also a little more forgiving with paint then the brake fluid. I also think you need to use DOT 3 and not the newer fluids due to materials incompatability.

Forgot to ask, do you want a scan copy of the diagnostics for checking the top fit? Sounds like that's what you need. If you PM me your email I will send you one from my Pontiac Manual (same top system).