Disc Brakes on '65 starfire

[Guest kris-sarah]

Hi. I am doing a frame off on a '65 Starfire. While this is apart does anyone know which spindles and control arms would fit on this frame to do a front disc brake conversion?

thanks

Bruce Hammond

[66400]

The disc brake system from 69 and 70 88/98s will work. I believe the control arms are the same regardless from 65-70. '67-'68 88's also had a disc brake option but the were of the dual piston calipher style and best to stay away from. You will also have to change to 15 inch wheels for clearence along with adding the dual master cylinder system.

Henry

[EJohnson]

I have just purchased a 65 starfire and am in the process of gathering information so that I can properly restore this vehicle. There is not enough proper information on the internet for this vehcile ie. engine stamp decoding and and buildsheet decoding. The car is all original as far as I can tell and has had only one owner.

What have you come up with so far as the only website I have found that gives any facts is www.442.com and my engine numbers do not match up with their decoding specs.

Sincerely,

Errol Johnson

[rocketraider]

Engine numbers do not necessarily match the VIN before 1968. 442.com is not infallible either especially on big cars.

Tell me what you have and I'll try to find it in my 1965 literature.

[bbodynut]

make sure you get a good set of rotors.To the best of my knowledge they are no longer available new.Kanter should have them first of the year though.I am doing 4 wheel discs on a 66 starfire.

[EJohnson]

Thanks Glenn,

As you look at the engine, the left head has a shaved area on it with the following code in it. This also matches the protecto plate number.

N102248

There is also a number series just behind the water pump on the top center that reads

386525A The A is much larger.

Sincerely,

Errol Johnson

[rocketraider]

"N" indicates a 4-barrel 425. Starfire engine will have an "S" suffix after the number sequence. "A" indicates a 45 degree cam angle 425 block, used 1965-67.

If it matches the protecto-plate it is the original engine.

The Turbo 400 transmission should have either 65-OB (all 4bbl high compression engine)or 65-OE (heavy duty, 2 or 4 barrel) codes on the ID plate.

Most common rear axle codes are 3.23 (QG non-posi, QH posi) or 3.42 (QI non-posi, QJ posi).

My 1974 parts book has a list of all 1965 optional equipment, so I should be able to decode most of the buildsheet if you have it.

[EJohnson]

Thanks Glenn for that good information and the nice gesture to help decode the buildsheet. Yes I have it as it was pinned to the springs underneath the back seat. I will send it to you in the next day or so if that is ok.

The stamp that I referenced in my last post(N102248) was hand stamped (except for the N) and there was a fade as it went toward the right so I could not read what should have been the "S" for starfire however; the protecto plate has the following codes on it:

N102248S

OD6512296

36657-NNA-347

C60-A31-U69

366575D109783

BA-674

Z

Does your book have the key to all of this?

Sincerely,

Errol Johnson

California

[rocketraider]

It has a lot of it. Let's try and see how close we get.

It's possible the factory engine stamping was weak, or another possibility is that a warranty engine was installed and restamped. I'm leaning toward original engine as the POP matches the engine stamping.

I think the OD65----- is the transmission code for warranty service, but my 65 manual (Sept 64 edition) doesn't show an OD code. It may have been in the supplement that was issued when the 400 engine was released.

36657 is Olds sales code for 1965 Starfire coupe.

NN is Burgundy Mist upper and lower body color. "A" probably indicates a white interior, since 347 is white leather & vinyl interior trim.

C60 is manual control airconditioning.

A31 is power side windows.

U69 is AM-FM radio.

366575D indicates:

3= Oldsmobile

66= Starfire

57= notchback hardtop coupe

5= 1965 model year

D= Atlanta BOP assembly plant

Not finding anything on BA-674 or Z.

[EJohnson]

That was pretty darn good as It is indeed burgundy with white leather interior. All of the other decoding is spot on as well. The 674 code is also mentioned on the fire wall plate on the inside of the engine.

Where would you suggest that I look for some of the manuals that you have on hand? Can a person buy them somewhere? I would like to have a similar collection of documentation for the future.

Is this a sought after vehicle or more of the run-of-the-mill types. I like it because it seems to have a bit of everthing in it.

I will type in the buildsheet information tomorrow.

Many thanks Glenn.

Sincerely,

EJ

[EJohnson]

HI Glenn,

Here is the buildsheet information:

Manifest Sequence no. = 017252

Color = WW A

Trim = 340

Frame = GA

R. Spring = WC

R. Shock = AW

Axle = QG

F. Spring = VJ

F. Shock = AV

P. Shaft = 80

Engine = UQ

Alter. = 700

Trans = OD

Wheels = M

Air Cleaner = 461

Head Liner = 178

Wind Hose = 62

Shelf = 195

I.P. Pad = BKCAT

Carpet = 10

C60 A31 (326 is in pen) U65

The rest of it seems to make sense so the above is what I am curious about.

Thanks alot

Sincerely,

Errol Johnson

California

[rocketraider]

Most literature vendors will have the 1965 factory Chassis and Body manuals. $50-75 for both is a fair price. The parts books, Color and Fabric, and Product Information Manuals are out there, but they ain't cheap anymore.

On to the buildsheet. I think your car had the buildsheet for another car stuffed into the seat, and that happened all the time so no need to worry about it. The buildsheet you have indicates a Sterling Mist (WW) car with black leather/vinyl interior (340). See if the manifest sequence matches the number on the body data plate underhood.

QG indicates a 3.23 non-posi rear axle. We've already talked about the OD trans code. U65 indicates a Wonderbar radio. GA is a standard-duty frame. VJ/WC spring codes are for airconditioned cars.

I can't find any other references to the codes. My books don't have all the individual parts codes for the broadcast sheet. A factory assembly manual might, but no one has released one for the big cars like they have for the Cutlass.

AS far as being run-of-the-mill, a Starfire was never a run of the mill car. It was Oldsmobile's top offering until the Toronado came along, being above even the Ninety-Eight in the sales hierarchy. You may not get wealthy off it, but if you enjoy the car, it's worth what you spend to restore and improve it. You also don't have to worry that someone has cloned one. They're not valuable enough that someone would cobble one up from a lesser car trying to make a killing, and the roofline prevents that anyway.

You do have to consider the cost of the Starfire-only trim items. NOS is already stratospheric, and good used is hard to find since most all of it is one-year-only stuff.

[EJohnson]

Hi Glenn,

Thanks for the attention again. I was able to go to the Pomona Fair Grounds (California Car Swap Meet) and found orignal Chasis and Body Manuals. After what you have stated however, I feel like Ive been taken advantage of as The Chasis Service Manual cost me 89.00 and the Body Service Manual Cost me 79.00. They are checking for me on the other books that might be available.

I found the "S" finally under a bit of crud at the end of the stamp on the front of the head. JEK answered one of the postings and told me that there was another id number on the block next to the distributor which just happens to be 1 then below that 364 and then below that the letters CFD. This is apparently the engines birth date and I am going to look through my new manuals to see if I can find it.

I am very impressed with this vehicle and feel that the Drivetoday.com article concerning it being a sleeper muscle car that has not received it's due in that catagory is probably correct. I am also impressed with the smooth ride, the fit and the features. I am definately on the road to properly restoring this vehicle and will drive it regularly as California is the place for it.

The Plate on the firewall states the following:

ST = 65-36657BODYBA674

Trim = 347

Paint = NN

ACC = A40A31C60

I did not find a sequence code on the plate.

Interestly however when I look at the buildsheet at the top it says BA673 and the plate under the hood says BA674. The BA on the buildsheet is typed and the 673 is in pen.

Thanks again for the information

EJ

[rocketraider]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think the OD65----- is the transmission code for warranty service, but my 65 manual (Sept 64 edition) doesn't show an OD code. It may have been in the supplement that was issued when the 400 engine was released. </div></div>

OK- found the documentation on the running change in the November 1964 Service Guild.

"Transmission Usage:

Since the start of 1965 production another Turbo Hydra-Matic assembly has been released for use with Starfire engines. Originally, the Starfire engines used the OB transmission together with all other 4-barrel carburetor premium fuel engines. The Starfire engine now uses the OD transmission which has the 1-2 accumulator pressure tailored to match the increased engine torque and provide a firmer 1-2 shift. Current usage of engines and Turbo Hydra-Matic transmissions is as follows:

Trans: Engine Usage

OA Premium fuel 2-bbl carb

OB Premium fuel 4-bbl carb

OC Regular fuel 2-bbl carb

OD Starfire engine

OE Heavy Duty engine option"

Amazing what can be found with a little research! Especially since I was looking for documentation on a Starfire script location change...

[EJohnson]

Thanks again,

You must be right as when you put the shifter in S from a dead stop it shifts very hard from 1st to 2nd just as if you had a performance aftermarket torque convertor or stall convertor on it.

What projects if any are you working on now?

I am working on the brake system now. Another problem (minor) that I am working on is trying to find the tool which appears to be a star fitting larger than any I or others so far have seen that the oil pan drain plug requires. It looks to be factory and is reinforced arount the plug area as well. Would you happen to know the size and fitting?

Would you know of a bottom conversion plate for the original carb air cleaner? I want to keep the original look of the vehicle but the air Cleaner hole diameter is smaller than that of the 1411 Edelbrock 750 cfm that I just purchased and put on it.

As a side note I just put a full sized HEI Distributor on the engine and it not only fits, but gives the engine a good boost as well.

Thanks again

Errol

[66400]

I think you may have an eight point fitting where the end of a 1/2 inch drive breaker bar or rachet will fit.

Henry

[rocketraider]

There's a special wrench made for getting the oil drain plug out. I picked up two of 'em at Cincinnati national meet last year. If you don't have the special tool, a 1/2" ratchet or breaker bar will work like Henry says. Make sure to use the ratchet itself without an extension. My experience is that an extension will slip in the drain plug recess and round off the points.

Olds used that design thru 1967.

Find an aircleaner baseplate from a 66-67 QuadraJet equipped Olds. That will fit both the Edelbrock carb airhorn and your existing aircleaner housing. It uses the same A90CW filter element as the 65 4GC- which by the way is obsolete and getting hard to find. I got the last three WIX had in their warehouses a couple years ago, but aftermarkets show up on ebay from time to time. Lot of people use an open-element aftermarket aircleaner for driving and save the factory unit for shows.

[EJohnson]

Thanks alot Henry.

EJ

[EJohnson]

Thanks Glenn that is a great help.

ej