Rolf Posted June 4, 2004 Share Posted June 4, 2004 A friend of mine with some bucks has asked me to build him an ultimate V-12for his '47 Lincoln, I have been dreaming of the opportunity for a long timeand have made copious notes on the subject, but I would really like some input from all of you, as to what you would do to make a V-12 better, if cost was not an object, thanks a lot, Rolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_v12lincoln Posted June 4, 2004 Share Posted June 4, 2004 stroker crank using v8 ford connecting rods, or new crower connecting rods to handle the power the blower will be putting out, either a single holley 4 bbl or a trio of 97s on top of that. a set of the new aluminum heads the guy in texas is making, better cooling and a slight boost in compression. headers, electric water pumps, get ahold of meizere for them they will custom make them for you and they last. a crank fire ignition system would be nice. a dry sump oiling system and windage tray, have Harvy Crane grind you a cam for it, let me know if you need his address, he use to own crane cams and does excelent work on old car cams, port and polish the intake and exhaust runners and as large a valve as you can fit on both sides. balance and blueprint it and use arp studs and bolts especially on the main and rod bearings, extra security for some higher rpms. if you cant find a blower twin turbos would work. 3 ring aluminum pistons, JAHNS will custom make them to your specks to handle all the power can make. am I leaving anything out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48LCCOUPE Posted June 5, 2004 Share Posted June 5, 2004 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">stroker crank using v8 ford connecting rods, or new crower connecting rods to handle the power the blower will be putting out, either a single holley 4 bbl or a trio of 97s on top of that. a set of the new aluminum heads the guy in texas is making, better cooling and a slight boost in compression. headers, electric water pumps, get ahold of meizere for them they will custom make them for you and they last. a crank fire ignition system would be nice. a dry sump oiling system and windage tray, have Harvy Crane grind you a cam for it, let me know if you need his address, he use to own crane cams and does excelent work on old car cams, port and polish the intake and exhaust runners and as large a valve as you can fit on both sides. balance and blueprint it and use arp studs and bolts especially on the main and rod bearings, extra security for some higher rpms. if you cant find a blower twin turbos would work. 3 ring aluminum pistons, JAHNS will custom make them to your specks to handle all the power can make. am I leaving anything out? </div></div>The only addition I would make is to have the guy in Texas relocate the spark plugs lower on the head to facilitate spark at the piston not the valve. The three 97's would make for a better look than a 4 barrell in my opinion. Fuel delivery would have to be enhanced via an elctric pump I would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolf Posted June 5, 2004 Author Share Posted June 5, 2004 You are the last person I would ever have thought to respond to this question Dave, but I thank you anyway, although I wonder why in the world you would stroke a V-12, that already has more torque and less RPM than anything comparable, maybe you will be good enough to enlighten me if I have not offended you, I will put your comments in the file I am building, thank you, Rolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolf Posted June 5, 2004 Author Share Posted June 5, 2004 I will ask you the same question as I did Dave, why stroke a V-12?? And use the weaker 91A or 21A rods to do it? They do not fit right in a V-12 anyway, but thank you for the input, I will put it in the file to peruse at length, I want to grind a solid lifter cam to Winfield R1 Specs, do you think Mr. Crane would be up to this?? I am presently thinking silicone pistons to allay the expansion problem so prevalent in V-12's, the ignition I hope Jake Fleming will do his superb best, as he always does, to make it as bulletproof as possible, thanks so much for your imput, will put it in the file, and study it carefully, Rolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_v12lincoln Posted June 5, 2004 Share Posted June 5, 2004 Stroking will give even more bottom end torque and more cubic inches. there are after market connecting rod manufactures that make rods for the flat head fords that are much stronger than stock. I will send you a few aticles I have on building a stroker V12. one other thing I would think about would be sleeving all the cylinders so you have consistancy in wall thickness if money is no object. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolf Posted June 5, 2004 Author Share Posted June 5, 2004 Yes, I had figured on sleeving all 12 cylinders, then reboring to 2 3/4" completely square with the crank, I had figured also on hard chroming the crank journals and turning them to standard Lincoln, I am kind of leery of a welded stroker crank, don't want to tempt fate, but will consider it, my main deviation is to try to have some of these new silicone 0 expansion pistons made for it, so I can run really close tolerances on the pistons, any expertise most welcome here, considering some flathead valve tricks to enhance the breathing, 30 degree seats on the intakes etc, maybe hard seats on all 24, also pondering whether to go progressive linkage 3 carb, or a 650 CFM Holley 4 barrel carb. Big Melling oil pump, extra careful balance on everything, and just a polish on all the ports, but am still gathering info and ideas, so I sure appreciate the input, thanks again, Rolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_v12lincoln Posted June 5, 2004 Share Posted June 5, 2004 If you have the money to do a stroker crank send it to Luniti crankshafts, they will do an excelent job of welding it and turning it, I would go with a nitride harding on the rods and mains and have them knife edge the throws and balance it. you will have a stronger lighter crank than when you started and it will turn rpm allot faster. If you use a blower or turbos for extra boost go with a good forged aluminum piston as the silicon based piston are very hard and tend to crack if you go over 8 psi boost. hardened seats are a good idea on the exhaust side, dont really need them on the intake. you can use a modified chevy stainless steel valve also,3 angle valve job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48LCCOUPE Posted June 6, 2004 Share Posted June 6, 2004 I did not suggest stroking the V-12 although I think you might as well if you are going to try and access more torque. It was V12Lincolns' post about stroking, I was only quoting Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolf Posted June 6, 2004 Author Share Posted June 6, 2004 Good advice Jack, duly noted, keep them coming, Rolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolf Posted June 6, 2004 Author Share Posted June 6, 2004 Excuse me all to Hell Dave, if you are going to bother to quote someone, it would seem logical you agree with them, or is that just another random idiosyncrasy of Florida Folks to just quote any old thing whether you agree with it or not, please, give me a break, Rolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolf Posted June 6, 2004 Author Share Posted June 6, 2004 On a lighter note, got out the calculator this morning, and did a little figuring, if we sroked this thing a 1/4 to make it 4", and had the stock 292 bore of 2 3/4, that would give 317.5 Cubic inches, if we went '42 bore at 2 15/16, probally the largest bore possible and still have it cool and absolutely reliable, that would give 330.5 CI, so on a totally blueprinted engine with solid lifters a mild 3/4 cam, big valves and enhanced porting for breathing, and enough carburetion, leaning toward a 650 CFM or 750 Holley, but here again as on everything, I am open to all of your thoughts, thanks for working with me here, Rolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48LCCOUPE Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Excuse me all to Hell Dave, if you are going to bother to quote someone, it would seem logical you agree with them, or is that just another random idiosyncrasy of Florida Folks to just quote any old thing whether you agree with it or not, please, give me a break, Rolf </div></div>I did agree just trying to give credit to the original post and its author you old Grump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolf Posted June 7, 2004 Author Share Posted June 7, 2004 Better to be grumpy than just plain stupid, that is not a quote, it is an observation, Rolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_V12Bill Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Rolf, There is no substitute for cubic inches so why not sleeve all 12 cylinders and go with a 3 l/l6 piston from a Ford in aluminium by a manufacturer of your choice? By the way the V 12 already has hardened seats in both intake and exhaust.Why not change the exhaust manifolds to exit up alongside the intake like that 200 mph flathead a few years back? How about 2 spark plugs per cylinder? On second thought why bother to reinvent the wheel, a 427 Ford or Brand X V 8 in stock configuration would have more go to start with then you would end up with in a no holds barred V 12. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48LCCOUPE Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Better to be grumpy than just plain stupid, that is not a quote, it is an observation, Rolf </div></div>That's classy and true to form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolf Posted June 7, 2004 Author Share Posted June 7, 2004 Sorry guys, I did not intend to wreck your forum here, you can lay that blame where you will, I will go away now, Rolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolf Posted June 7, 2004 Author Share Posted June 7, 2004 Hi Bill, at last a voice of reason, what a relief!! That method has been tried, several times, once by a friend of mine in my early days of Zephyring in 1954, this thing was in a '41 3 window, was wet sleeved on a number of cylinders, and I personally watched this big old LZ turn 104 MPH in the 1/4 mile, at the Pomona drag strip, the owners name was Gil Younger, and I would be interested if any one ever heard of him, or knows what happened to him, but this is not quite what my client today wants, he wants to travel 350 miles a day, have absolutely no hassles, have AC, PS, PB, and have the most bulletproof efficient V-12 possible, not much to ask, right?? Thanks for the input Bill, Rolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_V12Bill Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Rolf, I have never driven my V12 350 miles in one day, but I have driven 300 miles in about 6 hours. Is that close enough? Air...cowl vent and 4 40. Armstrong PS and heart in the throat PB. REeliable, it was a stock V12. Modify it all the way and you start to lose reliability!!! It might be more fun at the green light, but there is still a speed limit even on the interstates. Just got back from GOF XXXVI and it was a fun ride!!! There were a few fools that want a CLOSE look at 65 70 MPH, but they will still be there with a HOT V12 or not.Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolf Posted June 7, 2004 Author Share Posted June 7, 2004 Hey Bill, in your question about your '46, I will defer to my friend Dee Peecher, who is doing a sedan right now, but apparently there was a lot of turmoil going on right after the end of WW2, that was Aug '45, and it doubtlessly took them a while to get up and running and making '46 Lincolns, so that probally explains the delay, he was telling me of a 1948 owners manual that is dated Nov 1, 1947. As far as long drives, I drove my '41 Connie from LA to Detroit MI in 2 days without the OD, talk about a buzzed V-12, and the same for the return trip, we got our kicks on route 66 in 1956. see pic The guy this engine will be for lives in Texas, and he loves to drive, this V-12 will be coupled to a AOD transmission, and late Lincoln rearend, which are the exact width of our old ones, and the wheels and tires fit within the skirts perfectly, what is concerning me now is if anyone knows of anyone with a '42 having heating or any other problems because of the 3/16 larger bore that they abandoned in your year of 1946?? Wonder if all will ever be known about these cars?? Rolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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