Daily driver maintance

[Puka]

Hello -- just wondering for those of you who have daily drivers how often your changing oil, transmission fluid, etc.

I'm driving about 500 miles a month -- mainly in stop and go city traffic (Los Angeles) or on the freeways.

A friend of mine said I should be changing oil every 1,500 mi. on my rebuilt 263 straight-8 with about 4,000 miles on it.

For those of you with daily drivers, what's your service schedule?

Thanks!

Puka

[Guest imported_SKYSTHELIMIT]

My daily driver isn't an old car or a classic but I change the oil every 3000 miles and all others once a year usualy around the begining of November in preperation for the winter.

[Guest imported_NikeAjax]

I was told by an auto mechanic that the older, non-detergent-oils required that you change your oil every 3K miles, you know, when a lot of our collector cars were new! Oil is waaaaaaaay better than it used to be; back then, if you let it set a few months, you could actually reuse your oil, being that all the crap would settle to the bottom, and it would look almost as if you had just poured it yesterday! With all the detergents and suspending agents, the oil of today keeps all, well, a lot of #@!*&^% from sticking to the inside of your block.

With only 4K on your engine, um, you're changing your oil far sooner than needed, in my humble opinion. I change mine every 5K, because even though mine too is an everyday driver, '56 Century and '59 Rambler, I know the oil I use is good, and does its job the way it's supposed to. I was told I could go 6K by the mechanic who gave me the info. Another reason, they recommended changing every 3K is the roads were pretty iffy way back when, and air cleaners weren't as effective; they would let more junk in.

Do what you think is the right thing to do with YOUR CAR, but that is a pretty old "rule of thumb", that being the 3K change.

Jaybird

[rocketraider]

Puka is putting his car thru what the carmakers call "severe service"- lots of stop and go with only occasional high speed driving. I think I'm right that Buick still used splash lubrication in 51? Another thing to consider is does the engine have an oil filter?

Anyway- I think 1500-2000 mile oil change interval is dead on for the type of driving the car gets, even considering the engine is new. My own rule of thumb is the collector cars get changed every 2000 miles (a year's driving more or less), the wagon with 273K and a carburetor also gets it every 2000. The Bravada gets it every 3000, because it's fuel injected and is driven mainly at road speed 50-75 miles a day.

I've also put the old cars on Rotella 15W40 because it has higher shear strength and tends to stay on metal surfaces better than new gasoline formulations- important for engines that sometimes don't get started for a couple months. The wagon and Bravada get Havoline 10W30- again, because they are driven frequently and warmed up thoroughly.

I also prefer to use AC-Delco filters on them, but with the part # consolidation they're doing, I don't know what filter I'll have to get from one oil change to the next. At least they're still making the PF24, though the PF58 the wagon used is now PF61.

What surprised me is when they dropped the PF25 for Chevys.

When I can no longer get an appropriate OEM filter from ACD, I'll start using Purolator or WIX, but never a Fram.

[Guest imported_JPIndusi]

Buick engines from the 1940's, probably earlier, (not sure when they started this) used pressure lubrication.

On another issue, I am curious why you would never use a Fram filter.

Joe

[Puka]

the term "severe-service" is similar to what the guy at the garage down the street from me said. He rebuilds old Hudsons.

Anyway, I've been using straight-30 weight oil in engine. 10-30 for the air filter. I

have used Wix filters in the past -- but am using Baldwin p26's that I bought from Bob's Automobilia. I liked the Wix filters -- because they looked well-made -- with the metal canister. But don't know if that really makes a diff. compared to the paper canisters that the Baldwin's use.

I've had fuel and oil pump rebuilt in last two years when I put rebuilt engine back in -- but I think the oil pump's leaking. Ever since I put the engine back in I've had probs. with leaks. First one I found was valve cover. I had used a fel-pro gasket. When I found oil was leaking from there onto spark plugs, I made another gasket myself and that seems to have done the trick.

Also have a slight Dynaflow leak -- rebuilt the tranny at same time as engine. But people have told me (and I think I've read on this board) that leaks are inherent in the Buick dynaflow's from this period?

Anyone know if there is truth to this claim? Furthermore, are engine leaks just inherent to these older engines?

Or did I do a dumb thing and not machine all surfaces perfectly and use proper gaskets?

Anyway, I am going to take it into the garage tomorrow for a lube, oil, tranny, and coolant change and take a peek at the undercarriage and engine from underneath while it's up on the lift.

Thanks for everyones comments and suggestions.

I'm going to go with changing oil every 1.5 to 2,000 miles just to be on safe side, as this is my only car. I drove a 1997 Buick when it was new (I think it was the regal but it could've been bigger) and really loved it. If I can afford it, my next old car will be a 50's porsche. The type that Dean wrecked.

[Puka]

One other thing. You mentioned "warming up" properly.

What does this mean,exactly. Most of the time, I spend a good 3-4 minutes warming up the car. It's never colder (usually) than 50 F outside temp. If I don't do this, the car is pretty sluggish. Only other "old" car I've driven is a 74 Ford, and for that, I had to warm it up for a few minutes too.

Funny thing is, if you live in a city with congested traffic, as I do, where parking space is limited, you get all sorts of idiots honking at you to vacate your space while your warming up the car.

I don't think they get the idea that it takes several minutes to properly warm the vehicle.

[rocketraider]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Buick engines from the 1940's, probably earlier, (not sure when they started this) used pressure lubrication.

On another issue, I am curious why you would never use a Fram filter.

Joe </div></div>

Thanks for clarification.

Fram filters' internal construction is what bothers me. The end cap and outer wall are paper, glued onto the filtering media, and I've seen a couple cut open where that end cap had either bulged out or come completely loose from the element. That would allow total bypass of the filter media, ergo, no filtration. I've also seen them leak at the crimped seams, and have read two studies that showed they don't filter as effectively as other brands- high micron particle numbers, if you will. Those studies showed that AC-Delco, Motorcraft, Purolator, WIX, and AmsOil are the most effective filters available. They also gave Hastings/Casite high marks.

The studies also found that most OEM filters were very good except for Mopar.

I've heard rumours that Fram has two separate filter lines- one for professional trades and one for the DIY market, but that's hard to envision.

[Patrick W. Brooks]

Hello All: Have stuggled with the oil drips from straight eights for over 25 years. While there can be leaks for all the standard reasons there are several easy fixes and problems which simply cannot be addressed by repair:

1. The breather pipe on the right side of the engine hangs down in the air flow under the car to create a vacumn in the oil pan to suck out water vapor, vaporized gas and heat. Your engine oil removes about 1/3 of the heat from the engine as it bathes the hotest moving parts in the engine and removes heat as well as lubricates. In the oil pan there is oil flying everwhere and a great mist of oil is present as air is pulled into the pan from the intake port on the left side of the engine. As this air passes through the breather pipe it carries a heavy dose of the oil in the air with it and this bathes the right side frame, transmission and other components. In 1940 this breather just hung straight down and the oil collection on components was more significant. By the 1950's the breather was extended backward and this avoided much of the accumulation of oil on the starter, fuel pump and other forward parts. Still, when first looking at this dripping oil one thinks there is one or more oil leaks and there may be. However, there may not be a significant leak as this may be just oil accumulating from the breather air. If you clean the engine, pan etc carefully and then drive the car an extended distance you will see the leaks and the path of the air from the breather and the accumualtion from it will be more obvious.

2. Recently I removed the fly wheel cover just behind the pan on my 1940 as it was dripping oil and my concern was that the rear main was leaking into the clutch area and draining from the hole at the bottom of the fly wheel cover. The answer was that the main was not leaking but that the two bolts holding the pan in the very rear had loosened and allowed oil to pass by the gasket. This was a problem encountered before as all pan bolts should be checked periodically as they do loosen. This happened on my wife's Honda several years ago and was brought to my attention as the shop changing the oil replaced her drain plug which did not make me happy. She said the shop told her the original was leaking. The next oil change they did the same thing and after two new oil drain plugs I took the car to my shop and checked it out. Sure enough, the oil pan bolts has loosened and the problem was solved by simply tightening them. No more oil on the garage floor. Since then she wants me to change the oil. Heating and cooling works over a long period to loosen the pan bolts and oil will pass between the gasket and pan or block.

3. In tightening pan bolts be careful not to overtighten them as the gasket may be split by the pressure and will leak. A mechanic here in town refers to an elbow gauge one develops in doing this and it just takes a little experience to develop the touch. If the lock washer is flat this is a good indication that it is tight enough. Lock washers will often fail in that they crack and yet return to the proper appearance when removed. Examining them for a crack is helpful as is simply twisting them in your hands and they will break in two very easily.

4. The other area where I have encountered leaks most often is the timing chain cover gasket and seal on the crank shaft at the very front of the engine. It seems almost all the cars leak here and I have never found a way to stop it. It is almost impossible to reach with the car together and the oil is pulled beneath the car by the air and runs along the lower block and oil pan appearing again to be a pan leak or from other source. The only way to check this is to wipe the areas involved clean and check periodically for traces of oil and its route before accumulating a drip. Where it drips is almost always not where it is leaking.

5. Also, once diagnosised a leak around the fuel pump by determining that the bolts holding the pump had loosened and allowed oil to leak beneath the gasket. Tightening them solved the problem.

Good luck and hope this helps, Patrick W. Brooks, President, BCA

[Guest John Chapman]

Glenn,

I remember seeing a similar study done that had a dedicated web site, and found it at:

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters.html

The info on Fram was consistent with your comments.

Wix makes filters for NAPA, also. Some research into who makes the house brands for the parts stores may reveal sources for less expensive high quality filters.

Cheers,

JMC

[NTX5467]

Dempsey Bowling used to have a website in the "Front Drive Chrysler and Shelby Dodges" webring that was done back when he was in college and cut up various filters to see what was inside. Since Dana bought Wix, their quality and content has improved greatly from what it was in the 1960s, with an "Auto-X" magazine study of the FL-1A Motorcraft filter interchanges coming out that the Wix was better than the OEM Motorcraft in several areas. Sometimes, in older vehicles you have to take what you can find.

GM discontinued the PF25 and PF35 oil filters and replaced them with PF454 and PF1218, respectively. The replacement numbers have an anti-drainback valve in them which the earlier ones did not. Not sure what the differences are in the PF44 to PF46 or PF58 to PF61 updates, though. The PF30 and PF45 were specific to vehicles and the clearance of the oil filter and the vehicle body, as I recall.

Many differing orientations on vehicle "warm-up", but the generally accepted drill is to get the engine so it will realiably stay running and then drive off at moderate rates of acceleration and speeds for a mile or so. Remember too, that other vehicle parts that turn will also be starting to turn after sitting for a while (i.e., rear axle, transmission, wheels/tires) so moderation is a good guide until things have "waken up" a little. Of course, cold weather might have some different "speeds" than warmer weather.

Oil changes? One rule of thumb I developed a while back has to do with oil consumption and the coloration of the oil (and how fast it colors). The current GM orientation on oil consumption is that "acceptable" is more than 2500 miles/quart or so (unless you have an 8.1L gasoline engined truck, which has its own "acceptable" use due to the nature of the engine and how the vehicle is used). From what I've seen, most newer vehicles or vehicles with rings that are still in good condition will usually do a good bit past that and may not use one quart between the max factory specified "non-severe" change interval.

Anyway, what I considered as the original 305 in my '77 Camaro aged, as long as the oil rings are keeping things under control and the compression rings are not letting lots of blow-by develop, then if an engine uses about a quart every 3000 miles or so in non-severe driving and all trips are more than 20+ miles at a time, then when the oil gets one quart down, just add another quart and then change it when it gets one quart down the next time. This is kind of situational in basis and can vary with uses, but with the quality of modern oils and a reasonably decent oil filter, it should be a doable situation.

Similarly, as the engine ages and the consumption rises, it will be more necessary to change to oil to remove the combustion contaminates suspended in the oil. Just as if the engine is subjected to lots of short trips where the engine just gets hot and then cools off again and repeats that cycle many times, changing the oil will be necessary to remove the moisture from it that never gets cooked out by an engine at full operating temperature for a reasonably long time. It usually takes about 10 miles with the engine coolant at "thermostat open" temperatures for the oil temperature to match it, as observed on vehicles with an oil temperature gauge from the factory. The crankcase ventilation systems will only work to remove those vapors if the internal engine temperature is high enough to make the moisture into vapors in the first place.

So, as much as the engine oil makers tend to sensationalize stop and go driving as "bad", the real culprit can be how long the engine runs at a time between hot/cold cycles. Unless the oil gets hot enough to cook out the moisture and condensates on the inside of the block surfaces, the engine's not fully up to temp for optimum oil life. In reality, 15 miles of stop and go city driving will take longer than 15 miles of freeway driving, so adding "run time" into the mix might make things a little different. Of course, they are wanting to sell more oil too AND a particular type of oil in some cases.

In general, unless the engine sees lots of short trip driving, ultimately going 4-5-7,000 miles between changes with modern oils is not out of consideration (providing that the rings are still in good condition and no oil consumption issues are present). Remember how the oil change intervals for "normal" use went to 7500 miles with the use of unleaded fuel? Now, we don't have the issues with fuel dilution or washdown during warmup (and chokes that choked too much) with the modern computer controlled vehicles. But I tend to like the 4000-5000 mile interval with a fresh filter each time, personally, AND always an OEM spec ACDelco filter (or similar for the respective manufacturer), as a good rule of thumb. Just depends on the locale and temperature ranges and trip length/engine "run time".

Just some thoughts, your orientations might differ and I respect that.

Enjoy!

NTX5467