AACA Museum, where is the money going?

[Guest]

In the Newsletter Editors tred a lot of talk is happening about the AACA Museum and funding coming from AACA. Is this true? Are AACA dollars being used for the Museum. I heard that Bill Smith spends all his time on the Route 39 building.

[Guest]

How perceptive of you. ~ hvs

[Guest rcirilli]

AACA has made a contribution to the Museum each year as it has done to the Library. It isn't anywhere near full funding and is a year to year arrangement. The Library is very close to being self sufficient, the Museum is a long way from that. I will say that the donations do not go easily and there is significant discussion each year when it comes up. Assistance such as this is not done lightly.

[Guest]

But, Bob, the question seems to be "Is the museum paying its own administrative way with the money contributed by AACA and others, or is it feeding at the AACA trough in addition to the monies contributed from the AACA Treasury?" The AACA Board of Directors determines how much of our money is to transferred to the Museum, but is that all we give up to the Museum annually? I seriously doubt it.<P>I have in my posession letters from Jon Griggs telling me how much time Bill Smith devotes to the museum. AACA pays its Executive Director an annual fee as an independent contractor to operate its Headquarters. When he spends as much time as I have been told [in writing] as he does on Museum business, is AACA being re-imbursed for the time lost by AACA? Whose postage meter is imprinting postage on all of the Museum letters we receive? I trust the Museum has its own meter, but if not is AACA being reimburesd by the museum for postage? Whose staff is preparing all of the Museum material and who is paying that staff? I could go on. <P>I have no problem with the annual AACA contribution to the Museum. It is the extras that cause my concern. <P>I hope someone will address my concerns and prove my fears to be unfounded. Then we will all rest easier. hvs<BR>

[Guest rcirilli]

HVS, I understand your concerns and they probably have merit. I have been told I will start a three term on the Museum board in February, I will certainly keep you up to date when I have facts.<P>I seriously doubt that AACA is being re-embursed but I can't comment at this time as to specifics because I don't know first hand. All of the concerns mentioned have good basis. <P>If you hear that I get strung from a tree you'll know I haven't learned to keep my mouth shut when I'm told to.

[Guest]

Bless you Bob. I have felt like Diogenes wandering in the dark looking for an honest man. I feel I have found one at last. Iligitamae non corburundum. I am told that loosely translates from the Latin as, "Don't let the bastards wear you down." <P>[Now don't any of you Latin scholors tell me my conjugation or whatever is wrong. Its been 52 years.] <P>If you also are one of the successful candidates elected to the AACA Board maybe you can keep an eye on this thing from both ends. Thank goodness that an accountant and IRS trained person will be there who can understand the books. That is if they ever let you near them. You could be dangerous to somebody.<P>More later as the story unfolds. hvs

[Guest]

One of the real problems in trying to raise money internally for the museum capital and endowment funds is that the average AACA member probably does not have a clear picture of just what the purpose of this museum is and what the benefit is to AACA members. And I wonder if there is any sense of excitement among the membership about the museum. I've personally raised money for the museum through the proceeds from local region events, but the museum needs hundreds of efforts like this to provide the kind of money needed to build and operate successfully. I guess I can't get too excited about the AACA Executive Director spending a lot of time on this venture because it is linked to what the AACA is trying to accomplish as the leading organization in the hobby.

[Guest rcirilli]

Ted, I think you are very correct in that members at large do not know what it is about or have enough information to decide. Many would say we have been talking about it for years but the talkers were board to board, members not board to member.<P>The impression I get from the general membership is "here they come asking for money again"

[Guest]

Ted ~~ I guess I wouldn't be terribly concerned about the divided duties of being Exec. Director of both the AACA and the Museum were he not also the Exec. Director of the Library and Editor of ANTIQUE AUTOMOBILE. There just isn't enough staff to carry the load and so he is doing most of it himself. How much can one person do and do well. Something is bound to be neglected and I fear it is AACA part, due to the Exec. Director's unbounded enthusiasm for the Museum. <P>As for overall member support for the concept of an AACA Museum, I don't think its there throughout the membership.<P>1. It is probably a big deal to those in the immediate vicinity of Hershey.<BR>2. It is of much less interest to those members in the other parts of the country.<BR>3. There probably isn't a self supporting museum in the country and this thing has the potential of being an albatross around the neck of AACA.<BR>4. The Endowment is moving forward at the speed of a glacier and there seems to be little interest on the part of the Museum leadership to put it in its proper place in the greater scheme of things. It MUST be there before the building is built or there will be a tremendous shortfall in operating funds. Then the only source of sustaining monies will be the AACA treasury. Lord help us! <P>hvs<P>Now before any of you call me a monster who wants to destroy the Museum, consider the amount of my personal funds I have put into this thing in the form of the ENDOWMENT. All I seek is clear and informed thinking regarding the development of this Museum. Do it right, for pity sake!<P>hvs<p>[This message has been edited by hvs (edited 11-28-2000).]

[Guest]

Bob is right that the members in general are sick and tired of all the begging and pleading for money that began more than 15 years ago with the Library and has not let up since.<P>We have car raffles, toy truck raffles, solicitation mailings and so on too numerous to name. Has there been an AACA National activity in the last 15 years where we have not been hounded for money? Pity the poor Directors. They are continually pressed <BR>into service as beggars and it is embarassing after a while. Some Directors are refusing to do it, especially when they have been on the Board for many years. Personally, when I am approached at an awards banquet or the like, I just say, "I gave at the office." <P>hvs<P><p>[This message has been edited by hvs (edited 11-28-2000).]

[Guest SalG (Sal Grenci)]

Howard, You are on the money! Very few people give a hoot about the Library and even fewer about the Museum. The local folks are trying to raise money to fund the local picnic, holiday party, newsletter and the like. They feel that National does nothing for us other than the 6 magazines a year and the JC Taylor insurance. National cost $26 per year and most regions charge $10 to $25 for their dues, making it $36 to $51 to walk in the door of the Jan meeting. Dipping into National dues, takes $$ away from other area, resulting in the need for dues increases, without any special add ons for the Museum. As we all know, many people join AACA and are just on paper so that they can claim to be club members for insurance purposes. The old 80/20 applies, 20% of the people do 80% of everything. Of that 20% group, few care about national and would not belong if it were not a requirement to be in National to be in a region. Still others belong, so they can get those Hershey spaces. Let's not fool ourselves that we are they only national club that people are in, many belong to the one make clubs, plus the local of that club, soon a guy is spending $100 or more on memberships and the wife is on his case. Another thing is that many of our members are retired and funds are limited. Plus, if you live in the high tax/cost of living areas you have other priorities. SalG, my 2 cents<p>[This message has been edited by SalG (edited 11-28-2000).]

[Guest]

Howard - yes indeed it does look like the Exec. Dir. is spread thin and it may be a problem. The following is not criticism, but just an observation. My feeling is that if there is a fault here it is twofold: 1. The Exec. Dir. probably isn't the world's best task delegator - he wants to maintain control over everything, and 2. The National Directors certainly must have noted the heavy work load that AACA paid professional management (Exec. Dir.) has been charged with. Yet they haven't done much to alieve the situation.<P>It seems that the Library is looking to change their Board to get more input from AACA members with a Libary focus. Probably the same thing should be done for the Museum.<BR>As to fundraising being "begging", well the way the AACA is approaching it now is personally irritating to me. It isn't begging to raffle a car, but it is begging in the approach that is used person-to-person when you are constantly asked to buy, buy, buy. The AACA's whole approach to fundraising is based on the stuff that works well at the region level. If you want to raise big bucks (multi-million dollar capital and endowment funds) you need to have an entirely different focus, plan and level of execution - or it will move with the speed of a glacier.<P>And Sal it's your turn baby! National dues have been the same for four years now, so where is this constant increase. And we are now offered more national events than ever before, plus the magazine has improved substantially in the past few years. Could we get even better services, etc. from the national. I think so. I guess that I have heard this pennyante complaint about "what does AACA national do for us" for so many years that it irritates me. It's bull and usually comes from the people who won't lift a finger to help at the region or national level. Sorry for the length, but if you read this far it's your problem now.

[Guest rcirilli]

Well Ted, I did read this far and I guess your right!

[Guest]

Ted ~~ I don't want to belabor this thing any further, but I would like to address the first paragraph of your last post.<P>Unless things have changed since I left the Board, the Executive Director is under contract to the AACA as an independent contractor. It is a very loose contract with virtually NO restrictions, and must be so in order for the Exec. Dir. to truly be an independent contractor. The AACA can spell out what it wants done but cannot, as I understand it, tell him exactly how and when to do it. He must be allowed to perform the job in a manner determined by him.<P>So--- I would seem that there are no contractural restrictions on what the Exec. Dir. can do in addition to running our HQ.<BR>He IS overextended, but short of rewriting his contract there is little the Board can do to redirect his efforts.<P>Perhaps we should change to hiring the Exec. Dir. as an employee when the contract comes up for renewal. Then, and only then, would the Board have full power to control the activities of the Exec. Dir.<P>Or perhaps AACA should seek a new Exec. Dir and free our current one to devote full time to the Museum. <P>But then that's just my opinion. hvs

[Guest]

Howard - unless I was napping in Contracts 101, you can spell out in great detail just exactly what outcomes are expected and with time frames. As a true independent contractor, you can't tell him how to accomplish the outcomes, or he could become an employee under IRS guidelines.

[Guest SalG (Sal Grenci)]

Ted, I know I had it coming. But, I have heard the "what does National do for us" from the most active and hard working people in the 3 regions I belong to. I, myself have done my thing for National. I gave a segment of the newsletter editors seminor this past Feb. and I have been asked to do something for 2001. As far as $ goes, people only have so much that they budget to AACA regional/national events, and so much for movies or video rentals, so much for betting on the lottery or charitful gifts. As I have stated in this and previous treads, the museum is a big and costly thing requiring a lot of effort. Perhaps, the board should look to general membership to find help. We probably have at least 1 public relations person in the 50k+ membership and someone must know how to raise $$ out there. The exec dir can only do so much. SalG<p>[This message has been edited by SalG (edited 11-29-2000).]

[Guest]

Sal to be clear on how to raise those big bucks - it ain't PR types but Development or Fundraising types that we need to get involved. Just like we have all said here, the AACA has been nickel and diming us for years on Library and Museum funding, to the point where almost no one is listening. Time to change tactics and get it done and over with.

[Guest]

Get a professional! Not someone's good buddy for the job. hvs

[Guest SalG (Sal Grenci)]

Ted, I agree with you on that. Stop the nickel and dime fund raising. Get the right people to go to the right people with $. SalG

[Guest]

AACA building this Museum is like me trying to go to a party at the Vanderbilts or the Rockefellers. I don't belong there and wouldn't know how to act if I did get there.<P> hvs

[Guest]

Just a thought...<P>The Milton Hershey School has the largest trust fund, possibly in the world. I have a friend who attended, having graduated in 1959. The School is the majority stockholder of Hershey Foods/HERCO.<P>If they would offer a course on Automobile History/Restoration, possibly they could justify helping with the Museum.<P>It has been reported that the Trust is worth a cool $5-Billion. <P>My 2 cents...

[Guest]

I'll post a list of theAACA Museum board members asap. (as soon a I can find them)<BR> <P>Peter

[Guest]

Find a list of the AACA Musuem board of directors at:<BR> <A HREF="http://www.aaca.org/museum/boardof.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.aaca.org/museum/boardof.htm</A> <P>Some of them have email addresses. Find them at:<BR> <A HREF="http://www.aaca.org/officers/2000_national_directors_roster.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.aaca.org/officers/2000_national_directors_roster.htm</A> <P>Sorry for the confusion.<P>Peter

[Guest]

My post to Father Ron from earlier today seems to have disappeared. In it I suggested a list of those Museum Board members who are also AACA Board members.<P>SO....I will answer my own question.<P>They are: Ron Barnett ~~ Roy Graden ~~ Tom Howard ~~ John Myer ~~ Joe Vicini<P>Also serving on the Museum Board are two AACA past Presidents who no longer serve on the AACA Board: Stanley "Doc" Stratton and Richard Taylor.<P>And then there is the all purpose Executive Director, who serves as Exec. Dir. for everything, William H. Smith. He is also Editor of Antique Automobile magazine. Don't you think he is being sliced a little too thin?<P>hvs

[ronbarn]

hvs correctly identifies the CURRENT AACA National Directors who serve on the Museum Board. However, Ron Barnett (yes, yours truly) and Roy Graden will no longer be on that Board at the end of this year. The two of us specifically requested that we not be nominated for another term.

[Guest]

Ron,<P>You are uncharacteristically silence on this subject... hmmmm.<P>Peter<P>------------------<BR>Peter Gariepy<BR>peterg@aaca.org<P>www.aaca.org

[Guest SalG (Sal Grenci)]

To all, This is the most talk we have had since the old vs young members of our club. SalG

[Guest]

Does that mean we think it's important? <P>hvs

[Guest]

Now to be serious. What is being asked of the AACA membership is a voluntary special assessment to fund an organization that is technically separate from the AACA. In all likelihood this will be as successful as the proposition that pigs can become airborne. But you know Howard that they will get some bites on the $108 deal. Now the hard question. What will happen if the Museum cannot raise enough money to build even a modest facility? Are there time limits and alternative plans on the project?<BR>It concerns me that well respected AACA leaders are asking off the Board. <BR> <BR>

[Guest]

Ego knows no bounds or time limits. They will press on until it kills us. NOT THEM---<BR>US. Howard<P>I have what appears to be a real bombshell to deliver as soon as I can get clearance and approval from the source to go public with it. It may take a couple of days, but stay tuned to this station for more breaking news. Howard<P><p>[This message has been edited by hvs (edited 12-06-2000).]

[brewsterbuff]

Since I am basically a "Country Bumpkin" and not very well versed on these subjects I should probably keep my mouth shut, or should I say pen in my pocket. However, have any of you been to the National Watch and Clock Collectors Association Museum in Columbia, PA? This is one Fabulous Museum and in the little town of Columbia. I have no idea how it is funded or maintained but I do know it is a great museum. I am sure if the collectors of watches and clocks can put together a museum like this that "car-guys" should also be able to do it. The likes of 'Jay' or 'Jerry' probably would not help out because all they have to do is walk to their garage to see a museum. It is one of those places that you only go see once or twice unless you have a reason, not like the local pizza shop, but the Watch and Clock Museum is still there so why not us too? I understand that the library is not scheduled to go into the museum building but perhaps more people would be drawn to the facility if they had to go there for research. Most likely none of this makes any sense to inteligent people but it does to me.

[Guest]

Only a query to throw out...<P>Forget the turmoil/politics/anxiety of this thread for a few minutes:<P>What do we as a Club do with all the vehicles donated to the AACA? <P>1. If I donate/will a vehicle and find it "mirror-to-mirror" stuck in the basement of the current Headquarters with scratches from visitors I know I would be very upset.<P>2. What do we do with the people that have committed to donating even more vehicles to the Museum?<P>

[Dynaflash8]

Hey Brewster, thanks for the positive thought. Man, a positive thought, great. To most of us $108 is not an easy task to fulfill, but it isn't insurmountable either. I've been in this hobby a long, long time. AACA stands tall and in the forefront in building this hobby to where it is today. The one-car club folks have a hobby to build their clubs in because AACA was there before there were any or many one-car clubs. There's needed to be a nudge here and there, but in the end AACA has come thru for the hobby. If there is ever to be a "national" antique motor vehicle museum, don't you think it would be great if AACA did it? The very forbidding nature of this task awes me. I hope whatever it takes, a little here, a little there, more someplace else, that one day it all comes true. Certainly, looking at the acreage, nobody can say something hasn't come of all of this. I haven't given a thimble-full as much as some toward it, nor have I been able to, but to those who have, I appreciate them and respect their generosity. And, when it finally stands there, a lot of nay-sayers will be clapping their hands and saying, "gee, I was part of that." Please don't blast me for being a "goody two-shoes". It's just that as I see it our club isn't a one Saturday trophy club, soon the trophy forgotten. We are a club with memory, a club with tradition, a club where past accomplishments are remembered. So what better place for those accomplishments to be displayed and remembered than in our own club museum. "I think we can, I think we can."

[Guest]

Earl,~ There already IS a "National Automobile Museum." It's in Reno and has been there for many years now. The best we can be is #2. Also, they are always facing some financial deadline in panic, as are virtually ALL museums. This is what concerns me. We may build it, but can we keep the doors open without an Endowment. Get $3 million into the Endowment and THEN build the building. <P>I just came from our local Region meeting. The President brought it up, but nobody out here seems interested in donating $108. Let's see. 60 members in attendance. $108 each. That's $6,480 you're not going to get here, so you had better plan to cover us somehow. ~~ Howard

[Guest]

WONDERFUL NEWS I just received a mailing today from the Museum informing me that if EACH and EVERY member of AACA were to contribute JUST $108 the Museum could reach their goal of $4 million.<P>Think of that folks. Just $108 of your hard earned money could make the dreams of a select few come true. Golly, how can we NOT rush to our checkbooks and send money to finally erect the UNENDOWED Taj Mahal at the Pumpkin Patch. <P>Now don't any of you dare not to send your $108 <P>BUT WAIT [as they say on the TV ads], today we have a special offer. When you send your $108 to the Museum also send a like amount to ME. I ain't tax deductable but for that kind of money I could give up my day job as Forum Agitator and then you would never have to read me again. Isn't that worth a measley $108. <P>Seriously though, if you are inclined to fall for the pitch, please consider something for the Endowment. But don't include it in the same check as the $108. I can almost guarantee you that the Endowment would never see any of the money. hvs<P>Thank you Peter for the smilies. I couldn't express myself without them.

[Guest]

At 6:33 PM on 12-06-2000, I mentioned here on the Forum that I had a disturbing bit of information to bring to the attention of our members. All I was waiting for was a release from the party involved. <P>It is amazing what a little forum like this will bring out of the dark recesses. I received an e-mail from a long time AACA member regarding what appears to be an irregularity in the use of Museum funds. The following is first hand from the involved AACA member.<P>Quote: "Want to bring to your attention that a reimbursement was issued to an AACA member for a legitimate AACA [NOT MUSEUM] expense.<BR>However the reimbursement was made by means of an AACA Museum, Inc. check. How could such an occurrence happen under proper accounting procedures."<P>Yes, how could it. The Museum is a 501 c 3 entity. The AACA is NOT. Isn't there some violation of some tax code in using Museum funds to pay the debts of AACA. All this time I have been worried about Museum debts being paid with AACA funds. Now I find out the opposite is also true. What the hell kind of bookkeeping are they using at HQ. Someone needs to be held responsible for this. WHO SIGNED THE CHECK??? Someone owes us an answer and an explanation. Will we ever get it? <P>Howard

[IndianaCarGuy]

Hey,..I am now moving from bulletin to bulletin, trying to understand why it is not being discussed that the idea of a museum needs to be more than just a bunch of pretty cars. Museums are going more and more to centers of teaching and research,..so why spend all this time on the building, when you have not yet answered the question of programs which can make the museum either self-sufficient or encourage outside donations and funding. A museum alone is not worth what is inside it,..if the staff, museum, and programs do not provide a USEFUL service and ongoing education and outreach,..there is no hope of surviving in an environment of diminishing public funding and internal infighting.<P>Let's suggest they go beyond the walls of a museum and get into programming and research that will make THIS generation of car restorers the most remembered as far as ENCOURAGING and building the hobby.<P>Robert S.

[Guest]

You never can tell what condition the fortunate (hopefully) building name benefactors will be in when the Museum is finally finished. Just a thought.

[IndianaCarGuy]

Why not put no one's name on the building?<P>Funding building, staff, heat, water, electricity, conservation, access comliance, exhibit design and construction, research, insurance, and computer equipment, office space, coordination of meetings, scheduling docents, training, hiring and working with curators, and all this PLUS trying to maintain a presence and without providing any educational programs or substantial consideration towards developing the kind of system that fosters education and museum programs that present anything more than the restored examples that are donated to the museum.<P>Ok, call me a fool for being realistic. This can be accomplished without a professional staff who has little museum experience?<BR>

[Guest rcirilli]

hvs, that's not even funny!