1929 Fargo Express Panel Update

[Jack Bennett]

23 hours ago, 30DodgePanel said:

Again. Wes Rinella posted this on the Dodge Brothers section a few years back. Not sure how to copy and paste the link to the thread from my phone but if you go to the DB section and search “1929 Fargo Packet” it will come up. Both the Packet and Clipper should have the same dash design. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh…………Wow………..Thanks for the photo!

This format of the gauge layout on this photo matches that of my Fargo perfectly. 
I had absolutely no idea that the cab of the truck was so luxurious, and it really brings home how poorly the years of neglect treated mine.

There is no way, even if given a million years to do so, that I could ever get the dash of my old truck looking so pristine, but it is a target upon which to aim for one hellacious winter project.

Thanks again for the photo, the thought in posting it, and the help it offers me toward planning future projects.

I have decided that the Fargo will/may/probably/possibly/well I hope so anyway, be my final old car project, and this gives me something to do for the next hundred years.

Jack

Edited June 22 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[Jack Bennett]

Thinking back to the time I brought the Willys home, I was beside myself with grief and anger about the recent loss of my wife, and totally distraught over her death.

The Willys was a terribly miserable car and the interior had been destroyed by mold, rot, water, rust and was totally rat eaten.

The only part of the interior, remaining, and recognizable as such, was the springs of the back seat, and even they were badly rusted and under a pile of collapsed wood and rotten material from the roof. The seat springs could not be moved because the pile of composted upholstery material and forty or fifty years of rat poop had solidified into a mass resembling compost, and the seat had became part of the rusted floor boards and rear wall of the cab.

The windows were all shattered and the only remnants of the wood linings of the doors was shards of rotten wood and some rusted screws.

The car smelled so badly of decayed wood, fabric, rat feces and urine it made staying inside the car for more than a couple minutes, without gagging, impossible.

Being the first of my old cars was a fortunate break for the Willys because the spot previously occupied by my wife’s car was vacant, so it had a warm and dry place to rest, and recover, from its very first day.

As the cleanup and restoration work progressed on the Willys I formed some sort of understanding regarding how it must have felt as it slipped into its state of utter decay, and I actually started the process of restoring my mind along with the car.

Loss of a close loved one leaves a vacancy in your social life in that makes it increasingly hard to open up to people, and it is very harmful to keep the sadness and sorrow bottled up in your mind.

Probably the worse part of suddenly being alone is loss of anyone who can understand your grief without, they, themselves, becoming opinionated, and feeling a need to offer suggestions about beginning a healing process.

Groucho Marx once asked a woman what advice she’d give a man who wished he could experience childbirth. Her reply was that she’d tell him to try and pass a watermelon as a stool, and then reconsider.

Talking to the old Willys produced equally productive advice (cars don’t talk) and a sort of friendship developed and I began the process of really  enjoying the time I spent working on the car, and watching it return to health  was becoming a source of personal pleasure in the absence of any other.

Many dark nights was spent in the garage, armed with a cold MGD, I could sit in the now upholstered and fully mobile Willys and listen to it tell me about the time the young lovers found their intimate sides on his front seat, and when the slightly older couple discussed the settlement as they drove to the lawyers to finalize their divorce.

Without added drama, I learned about the trips to the doctors office to learn the bad news regarding progress of the ultimately fatal disease, and the lilt of concealed compassion when told about the mad dash, through t the darkness of night, over badly rutted roads, and the final sense of wonderment and exuberance as the new baby was born in the safety and security of the hospital waiting room.

And then came the 1923 Dodge Brothers Roadster, a whole new set, and sort, of stories, and the sheer pleasure of hearing a long dead engine hum as the car experienced a new life for the first time in seventy years.

Now the Fargo is nearing the state that it too can tell its story, and when completed, I am certain we will have some tales to swap too.

People are great conversationalists, and they are essential to keeping a healthy self image and confidence alive and thriving.

But………our old cars aren’t too bad at it either……….

Jack

 

 

Edited June 22 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[Jack Bennett]

On 3/25/2024 at 12:54 AM, 1912 Minerva said:

Great find Jack! Would you possibly consider a clear varnish over the top of that original lettering? It would preserve the history yet still have a shiny finish to match whatever other fresh painting you do.  As you say, being able to show off the past history of the vehicle's use is invaluable.

Hi Minerva……..A first step, only one of many, regarding reanimation of the Fargo, is trying to preserve enough of the truck to eventually begin the renewal of cosmetics and restoration of the authenticity of the truck.

I am a impulse buyer, and as I see the projects which lay ahead, I buy materials so that when that step arrives I am prepared to begin work without the delay of some extensive, and time consuming shopping trips.

Accordingly, I have bought a three part clear coat to be mixed, and applied after I have applied band aids to the trucks many hurts.

I will post some photos as the work progresses.

Jack

 

[Jack Bennett]

In a few days I hope to have the brake parts I need to make the Fargo a free ranging truck.

A major problem though is the vast difference between the way the accelerator and the starter are connected to the engine.

Replacing the original 25” head engine with the later model 23” head model necessitated moving the engine back 7” from the front mount position of the new engine, but the bell housing of the new engine is quite a bit shorter than the original engine.

Today, using the frame of a cast off recliner chair and some real serious MGD indulgence, I now have the floor boards cut, the accelerator pedal working, and am just a smidgen from having the starter working. 
Hopefully, tomorrow being Sunday, and a no mail day, I’ll be able to finish the starter pedal, connect the new voltage regulator, to bring the battery fully on line, and get the auxiliary fuel tank installed and connected.

Rhen, if the mail gods smile on me Monday, and my brake parts are delivered, the Fargo may make his first sojourn out of the back yard and move into the confines of the garage.

Jack

[30DodgePanel]

I'm not sure if this is fact, but it appears the 3 gauges in the center are reversed. Could this be a possible way to tell the two models Packet and Clipper apart? Or is it possible we have two different year models and we're witnessing a change in design layout of the dash?

 

Wes Rinella's 1929 Packet is on the left so I wonder if this is further evidence that yours was a Clipper (along with other indicators previously discussed IE your original engine a Chrysler 65, frame, exterior body length and other factors). I've not studied the dash boards on the Fargo, but will dig a bit deeper to see if there are any concrete answers as time permits. And for the record, I had never noticed this difference until you posted this recent photo of your dash, I just always assumed they were the same. I realize you posted photos of it in the past, but because of my idiotic assumption, I simply never paid much attention to it. Since there is so little info available for the Fargos, this may prove to be a vital piece of evidence to distinguish more differences between the two models once a more in depth study is complete. Very interesting to say the least.

 

Great progress btw. Keep up the good work

 

 

                                          Packet                                                                                                  Clipper ?

 

 

Edited June 23 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[Jack Bennett]

29 minutes ago, 30DodgePanel said:

I'm not sure if this is fact, but it appears the 3 gauges in the center are reversed. Could this be a possible way to tell the two models Packet and Clipper apart? Or is it possible we have two different year models and we're witnessing a change in design layout of the dash?

 

Wes Rinella's 1929 Packet is on the left so I wonder if this is further evidence that yours was a Clipper (along with other indicators previously discussed IE your original engine a Chrysler 65, frame, exterior body length and other factors). I've not studied the dash boards on the Fargo, but will dig a bit deeper to see if there are any concrete answers as time permits. And for the record, I had never noticed this difference until you posted this recent photo of your dash, I just always assumed they were the same. I realize you posted photos of it in the past, but because of my idiotic assumption, I simply never paid much attention to it. Since there is so little info available for the Fargos, this may prove to be a vital piece of evidence to distinguish more differences between the two models once a more in depth study is complete. Very interesting to say the least.

 

Great progress btw. Keep up the good work

 

 

                                          Packet                                                                                                  Clipper ?

 

 

By George Dave. I never noticed that either and I have spent hours looking at that panel.

Again, I have no paperwork on the truck and it could be a 28, 29 or 30, and it could have been a Clipper and bastardized with Packet parts over the years. Or, a Packet which was altered using Clipper parts.

As the truck comes together, and I fabricate the structural parts, I now realize that the truck had became a parts truck, and the only way I find out something is missing is to make the parts surrounding it, and finding it impossible to connect them without the missing piece.

I am curious about the wheel size because, at least the rear wheels, are just too small for the truck. There is room, if the axle was moved a bit to the rear, to fit a hefty set of dual wheels there.

Well Sir; I expect the truck will be around for at least a few more decades, and so long as it hides information, it earns its keep and is a source of pleasure even when it is resting.

Thanks for your interest and input, it sure keeps the hobby fun!
Jack

[30DodgePanel]

30 minutes ago, Jack Bennett said:

 

I am curious about the wheel size because, at least the rear wheels, are just too small for the truck. 

some info that might help answer a few of the questions you may have regarding wheels and tire size. 

You should have Kelsey-Hayes 789 or 789A for rim part # 12928 (same used on my 3/4 ton). IF they are smaller and from another vehicle you should be able to tell at this point.

 

 

Does yours have the grooved cut outs?

Edited June 23 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[Jack Bennett]

On 6/23/2024 at 7:26 AM, 30DodgePanel said:

I'm not sure if this is fact, but it appears the 3 gauges in the center are reversed. Could this be a possible way to tell the two models Packet and Clipper apart? Or is it possible we have two different year models and we're witnessing a change in design layout of the dash?

 

Wes Rinella's 1929 Packet is on the left so I wonder if this is further evidence that yours was a Clipper (along with other indicators previously discussed IE your original engine a Chrysler 65, frame, exterior body length and other factors). I've not studied the dash boards on the Fargo, but will dig a bit deeper to see if there are any concrete answers as time permits. And for the record, I had never noticed this difference until you posted this recent photo of your dash, I just always assumed they were the same. I realize you posted photos of it in the past, but because of my idiotic assumption, I simply never paid much attention to it. Since there is so little info available for the Fargos, this may prove to be a vital piece of evidence to distinguish more differences between the two models once a more in depth study is complete. Very interesting to say the least.

 

Great progress btw. Keep up the good work

 

 

                                          Packet                                                                                                  Clipper ?

 

 

Still trying to digest the enormous amount of information you sent me.

A major problem I have, which is also a Godsend as a aging retiree, when I try to read, and remember, a whole lot of stuff, I tend to forget what I read in the beginning before I get to the end.

That’s really pretty cool because it makes everything a new learning experience, and I don’t punch a time clock anymore so there is no one I need to impress with how smart I am.

A question though…….I notice that the Fargo trucks appear to have been equipped with shock absorbers.

Well Sir, although my old Fargo has some rather exotic mounts on each end of the spring pile up, I can find no indication there was ever shocks on the truck.

Am I reading this wrong, or is the shock absorbers built into the rather decorative, and extremely over built spring shackles?

Jack

[1912 Minerva]

On 6/23/2024 at 4:23 AM, Jack Bennett said:

Hi Minerva……..A first step, only one of many, regarding reanimation of the Fargo, is trying to preserve enough of the truck to eventually begin the renewal of cosmetics and restoration of the authenticity of the truck.

I am a impulse buyer, and as I see the projects which lay ahead, I buy materials so that when that step arrives I am prepared to begin work without the delay of some extensive, and time consuming shopping trips.

Accordingly, I have bought a three part clear coat to be mixed, and applied after I have applied band aids to the trucks many hurts.

I will post some photos as the work progresses.

Jack

 

That's great Jack! I look forward to seeing the results. I wish I was a bit more impulsive at times...I tend to prevaricate and procrastinate before finally deciding on a course of action.  I find this is a great way to make a slow job even slower!

[30DodgePanel]

17 hours ago, Jack Bennett said:

although my old Fargo has some rather exotic mounts on each end of the spring pile up, I can find no indication there was ever shocks on the truck.

Am I reading this wrong, or is the shock absorbers built into the rather decorative, and extremely over built spring shackles?

 

I doubt you'll find anything like a modern shock that we're used to seeing.

It's hard to tell, but I believe those are the lovejoy shock absorbers in the photo below. I've not studied the early lovejoys, but found several styles when doing a google search.

 

Maybe try to get us a few close-up photos (inside and out of any connection points or connecting arms or how it ties into the springs) with a bit more clarity to confirm? They probably have a manufacturers name, makers mark or part # for even further clarification in case you ever need to know.

 

And again (another new discovery for the memory ), the frame will be 6" x 2 1/2" flanges (I believe these are also called the top rails of the frame seen in photo below), and there should also be five cross members. This is all assuming of course that it's a original unaltered Clipper frame. 

 

 

Here is the article snippet with description. I'm only posting it again so you don't have to search everywhere for the article while trying to compare with the photo. Also makes it easier for the reader to follow along.

 

 

If you took any pictures of your frame while the body was off, it might be worth it to find that photo and count the crossmembers.

 

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 10:40 AM by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

Here is a overview showing the four cross members on a Packet. Not sure where the fifth would be on a Clipper, so this will be a good learning experience if you can confirm and post a photo of where the 5th one is, and will tell us IF you have a Clipper.

 

 

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 10:50 AM by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

Yet another dash on a Packet. Note this is from a first edition Aug 1928 Instruction Manual for the 1/2 ton Packet. 

I'm only posting it to show there were indeed other variations of the dash board layout. BTW, there are ways of tracing down the approximate dates for those changes if you'd like to know. Commercial Car Journals and other period literature good tools for finding out what month those changes may have occurred. As you know, the changes in the early days were constant and random. I love the research so it's a lot of fun for me. I'm still in the process of hunting down when those changes may have occurred but we're talking about a 4 years window times a minimum or 12 monthly issues, sometimes weekly issues of those publications so you can imagine the time it takes to find those answers. I'm still working a fulltime job so I'll certainly continue searching as I get time. More to come...

 

 

As I mentioned in a previous PM, a few years ago I had the opportunity to purchase a Clipper Instruction Book. I passed on it at the time, but now I really wished I would have purchased it. I'd venture to say someone on the AACA forums purchased that book, so maybe start a thread asking for photos of the dash of a Clipper from that Instruction Book? Just a thought, but if you can find someone who owns that Clipper manual it may be more help to you than any of us can offer as we're simply trying our best to "fill in the blanks" the best we can.

 

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 11:21 AM by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[Jack Bennett]

6 hours ago, 30DodgePanel said:

 

I doubt you'll find anything like a modern shock that we're used to seeing.

It's hard to tell, but I believe those are the lovejoy shock absorbers in the photo below. I've not studied the early lovejoys, but found several styles when doing a google search.

 

Maybe try to get us a few close-up photos (inside and out of any connection points or connecting arms or how it ties into the springs) with a bit more clarity to confirm? They probably have a manufacturers name, makers mark or part # for even further clarification in case you ever need to know.

 

And again (another new discovery for the memory ), the frame will be 6" x 2 1/2" flanges (I believe these are also called the top rails of the frame seen in photo below), and there should also be five cross members. This is all assuming of course that it's a original unaltered Clipper frame. 

 

 

Here is the article snippet with description. I'm only posting it again so you don't have to search everywhere for the article while trying to compare with the photo. Also makes it easier for the reader to follow along.

 

 

If you took any pictures of your frame while the body was off, it might be worth it to find that photo and count the crossmembers.

 

 

 

Wow!

The thing with these antique machines is that they just never stop giving up things to learn.

Of course I must refer back to the “oil rectifier” and “sleeve valve” construction of the engine in my Willys.

I am still trying to integrate the way my Dodge has no intake manifold and the combination starter/generator.

Now you have given me a few more things to feast my mind on with your “invar strut pistons”, “impulse neutralizer” and “”semi-automatic ignition”.

It is a certainty that it is impossible for a fan of these marvels of machinery to go to bed with a hungry mind.

Thanks again for the information and the thought in providing it.

Jack

[30DodgePanel]

2 hours ago, Jack Bennett said:

it is impossible for a fan of these marvels of machinery to go to bed with a hungry mind.

you sleep? 
 

I wish I could find all the answers so I could get some rest.
 

They say songwriters have a pen and notepad beside their bed just in case…. I find it works good in the research aspect of the hobby too. 

[Jack Bennett]

20 hours ago, 30DodgePanel said:

you sleep? 
 

I wish I could find all the answers so I could get some rest.
 

They say songwriters have a pen and notepad beside their bed just in case…. I find it works good in the research aspect of the hobby too. 

I wonder if keeping a iPad handy to take photos of things you want to study later counts?