1929 Fargo Express Panel Update

[Jack Bennett]

23 hours ago, 30DodgePanel said:

Again. Wes Rinella posted this on the Dodge Brothers section a few years back. Not sure how to copy and paste the link to the thread from my phone but if you go to the DB section and search “1929 Fargo Packet” it will come up. Both the Packet and Clipper should have the same dash design. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh…………Wow………..Thanks for the photo!

This format of the gauge layout on this photo matches that of my Fargo perfectly. 
I had absolutely no idea that the cab of the truck was so luxurious, and it really brings home how poorly the years of neglect treated mine.

There is no way, even if given a million years to do so, that I could ever get the dash of my old truck looking so pristine, but it is a target upon which to aim for one hellacious winter project.

Thanks again for the photo, the thought in posting it, and the help it offers me toward planning future projects.

I have decided that the Fargo will/may/probably/possibly/well I hope so anyway, be my final old car project, and this gives me something to do for the next hundred years.

Jack

Edited June 22 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[Jack Bennett]

Thinking back to the time I brought the Willys home, I was beside myself with grief and anger about the recent loss of my wife, and totally distraught over her death.

The Willys was a terribly miserable car and the interior had been destroyed by mold, rot, water, rust and was totally rat eaten.

The only part of the interior, remaining, and recognizable as such, was the springs of the back seat, and even they were badly rusted and under a pile of collapsed wood and rotten material from the roof. The seat springs could not be moved because the pile of composted upholstery material and forty or fifty years of rat poop had solidified into a mass resembling compost, and the seat had became part of the rusted floor boards and rear wall of the cab.

The windows were all shattered and the only remnants of the wood linings of the doors was shards of rotten wood and some rusted screws.

The car smelled so badly of decayed wood, fabric, rat feces and urine it made staying inside the car for more than a couple minutes, without gagging, impossible.

Being the first of my old cars was a fortunate break for the Willys because the spot previously occupied by my wife’s car was vacant, so it had a warm and dry place to rest, and recover, from its very first day.

As the cleanup and restoration work progressed on the Willys I formed some sort of understanding regarding how it must have felt as it slipped into its state of utter decay, and I actually started the process of restoring my mind along with the car.

Loss of a close loved one leaves a vacancy in your social life in that makes it increasingly hard to open up to people, and it is very harmful to keep the sadness and sorrow bottled up in your mind.

Probably the worse part of suddenly being alone is loss of anyone who can understand your grief without, they, themselves, becoming opinionated, and feeling a need to offer suggestions about beginning a healing process.

Groucho Marx once asked a woman what advice she’d give a man who wished he could experience childbirth. Her reply was that she’d tell him to try and pass a watermelon as a stool, and then reconsider.

Talking to the old Willys produced equally productive advice (cars don’t talk) and a sort of friendship developed and I began the process of really  enjoying the time I spent working on the car, and watching it return to health  was becoming a source of personal pleasure in the absence of any other.

Many dark nights was spent in the garage, armed with a cold MGD, I could sit in the now upholstered and fully mobile Willys and listen to it tell me about the time the young lovers found their intimate sides on his front seat, and when the slightly older couple discussed the settlement as they drove to the lawyers to finalize their divorce.

Without added drama, I learned about the trips to the doctors office to learn the bad news regarding progress of the ultimately fatal disease, and the lilt of concealed compassion when told about the mad dash, through t the darkness of night, over badly rutted roads, and the final sense of wonderment and exuberance as the new baby was born in the safety and security of the hospital waiting room.

And then came the 1923 Dodge Brothers Roadster, a whole new set, and sort, of stories, and the sheer pleasure of hearing a long dead engine hum as the car experienced a new life for the first time in seventy years.

Now the Fargo is nearing the state that it too can tell its story, and when completed, I am certain we will have some tales to swap too.

People are great conversationalists, and they are essential to keeping a healthy self image and confidence alive and thriving.

But………our old cars aren’t too bad at it either……….

Jack

 

 

Edited June 22 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[Jack Bennett]

On 3/25/2024 at 12:54 AM, 1912 Minerva said:

Great find Jack! Would you possibly consider a clear varnish over the top of that original lettering? It would preserve the history yet still have a shiny finish to match whatever other fresh painting you do.  As you say, being able to show off the past history of the vehicle's use is invaluable.

Hi Minerva……..A first step, only one of many, regarding reanimation of the Fargo, is trying to preserve enough of the truck to eventually begin the renewal of cosmetics and restoration of the authenticity of the truck.

I am a impulse buyer, and as I see the projects which lay ahead, I buy materials so that when that step arrives I am prepared to begin work without the delay of some extensive, and time consuming shopping trips.

Accordingly, I have bought a three part clear coat to be mixed, and applied after I have applied band aids to the trucks many hurts.

I will post some photos as the work progresses.

Jack

 

[Jack Bennett]

In a few days I hope to have the brake parts I need to make the Fargo a free ranging truck.

A major problem though is the vast difference between the way the accelerator and the starter are connected to the engine.

Replacing the original 25” head engine with the later model 23” head model necessitated moving the engine back 7” from the front mount position of the new engine, but the bell housing of the new engine is quite a bit shorter than the original engine.

Today, using the frame of a cast off recliner chair and some real serious MGD indulgence, I now have the floor boards cut, the accelerator pedal working, and am just a smidgen from having the starter working. 
Hopefully, tomorrow being Sunday, and a no mail day, I’ll be able to finish the starter pedal, connect the new voltage regulator, to bring the battery fully on line, and get the auxiliary fuel tank installed and connected.

Rhen, if the mail gods smile on me Monday, and my brake parts are delivered, the Fargo may make his first sojourn out of the back yard and move into the confines of the garage.

Jack

[30DodgePanel]

I'm not sure if this is fact, but it appears the 3 gauges in the center are reversed. Could this be a possible way to tell the two models Packet and Clipper apart? Or is it possible we have two different year models and we're witnessing a change in design layout of the dash?

 

Wes Rinella's 1929 Packet is on the left so I wonder if this is further evidence that yours was a Clipper (along with other indicators previously discussed IE your original engine a Chrysler 65, frame, exterior body length and other factors). I've not studied the dash boards on the Fargo, but will dig a bit deeper to see if there are any concrete answers as time permits. And for the record, I had never noticed this difference until you posted this recent photo of your dash, I just always assumed they were the same. I realize you posted photos of it in the past, but because of my idiotic assumption, I simply never paid much attention to it. Since there is so little info available for the Fargos, this may prove to be a vital piece of evidence to distinguish more differences between the two models once a more in depth study is complete. Very interesting to say the least.

 

Great progress btw. Keep up the good work

 

 

                                          Packet                                                                                                  Clipper ?

 

 

Edited June 23 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[Jack Bennett]

29 minutes ago, 30DodgePanel said:

I'm not sure if this is fact, but it appears the 3 gauges in the center are reversed. Could this be a possible way to tell the two models Packet and Clipper apart? Or is it possible we have two different year models and we're witnessing a change in design layout of the dash?

 

Wes Rinella's 1929 Packet is on the left so I wonder if this is further evidence that yours was a Clipper (along with other indicators previously discussed IE your original engine a Chrysler 65, frame, exterior body length and other factors). I've not studied the dash boards on the Fargo, but will dig a bit deeper to see if there are any concrete answers as time permits. And for the record, I had never noticed this difference until you posted this recent photo of your dash, I just always assumed they were the same. I realize you posted photos of it in the past, but because of my idiotic assumption, I simply never paid much attention to it. Since there is so little info available for the Fargos, this may prove to be a vital piece of evidence to distinguish more differences between the two models once a more in depth study is complete. Very interesting to say the least.

 

Great progress btw. Keep up the good work

 

 

                                          Packet                                                                                                  Clipper ?

 

 

By George Dave. I never noticed that either and I have spent hours looking at that panel.

Again, I have no paperwork on the truck and it could be a 28, 29 or 30, and it could have been a Clipper and bastardized with Packet parts over the years. Or, a Packet which was altered using Clipper parts.

As the truck comes together, and I fabricate the structural parts, I now realize that the truck had became a parts truck, and the only way I find out something is missing is to make the parts surrounding it, and finding it impossible to connect them without the missing piece.

I am curious about the wheel size because, at least the rear wheels, are just too small for the truck. There is room, if the axle was moved a bit to the rear, to fit a hefty set of dual wheels there.

Well Sir; I expect the truck will be around for at least a few more decades, and so long as it hides information, it earns its keep and is a source of pleasure even when it is resting.

Thanks for your interest and input, it sure keeps the hobby fun!
Jack

[30DodgePanel]

30 minutes ago, Jack Bennett said:

 

I am curious about the wheel size because, at least the rear wheels, are just too small for the truck. 

some info that might help answer a few of the questions you may have regarding wheels and tire size. 

You should have Kelsey-Hayes 789 or 789A for rim part # 12928 (same used on my 3/4 ton). IF they are smaller and from another vehicle you should be able to tell at this point.

 

 

Does yours have the grooved cut outs?

Edited June 23 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[Jack Bennett]

On 6/23/2024 at 7:26 AM, 30DodgePanel said:

I'm not sure if this is fact, but it appears the 3 gauges in the center are reversed. Could this be a possible way to tell the two models Packet and Clipper apart? Or is it possible we have two different year models and we're witnessing a change in design layout of the dash?

 

Wes Rinella's 1929 Packet is on the left so I wonder if this is further evidence that yours was a Clipper (along with other indicators previously discussed IE your original engine a Chrysler 65, frame, exterior body length and other factors). I've not studied the dash boards on the Fargo, but will dig a bit deeper to see if there are any concrete answers as time permits. And for the record, I had never noticed this difference until you posted this recent photo of your dash, I just always assumed they were the same. I realize you posted photos of it in the past, but because of my idiotic assumption, I simply never paid much attention to it. Since there is so little info available for the Fargos, this may prove to be a vital piece of evidence to distinguish more differences between the two models once a more in depth study is complete. Very interesting to say the least.

 

Great progress btw. Keep up the good work

 

 

                                          Packet                                                                                                  Clipper ?

 

 

Still trying to digest the enormous amount of information you sent me.

A major problem I have, which is also a Godsend as a aging retiree, when I try to read, and remember, a whole lot of stuff, I tend to forget what I read in the beginning before I get to the end.

That’s really pretty cool because it makes everything a new learning experience, and I don’t punch a time clock anymore so there is no one I need to impress with how smart I am.

A question though…….I notice that the Fargo trucks appear to have been equipped with shock absorbers.

Well Sir, although my old Fargo has some rather exotic mounts on each end of the spring pile up, I can find no indication there was ever shocks on the truck.

Am I reading this wrong, or is the shock absorbers built into the rather decorative, and extremely over built spring shackles?

Jack

[1912 Minerva]

On 6/23/2024 at 4:23 AM, Jack Bennett said:

Hi Minerva……..A first step, only one of many, regarding reanimation of the Fargo, is trying to preserve enough of the truck to eventually begin the renewal of cosmetics and restoration of the authenticity of the truck.

I am a impulse buyer, and as I see the projects which lay ahead, I buy materials so that when that step arrives I am prepared to begin work without the delay of some extensive, and time consuming shopping trips.

Accordingly, I have bought a three part clear coat to be mixed, and applied after I have applied band aids to the trucks many hurts.

I will post some photos as the work progresses.

Jack

 

That's great Jack! I look forward to seeing the results. I wish I was a bit more impulsive at times...I tend to prevaricate and procrastinate before finally deciding on a course of action.  I find this is a great way to make a slow job even slower!

[30DodgePanel]

17 hours ago, Jack Bennett said:

although my old Fargo has some rather exotic mounts on each end of the spring pile up, I can find no indication there was ever shocks on the truck.

Am I reading this wrong, or is the shock absorbers built into the rather decorative, and extremely over built spring shackles?

 

I doubt you'll find anything like a modern shock that we're used to seeing.

It's hard to tell, but I believe those are the lovejoy shock absorbers in the photo below. I've not studied the early lovejoys, but found several styles when doing a google search.

 

Maybe try to get us a few close-up photos (inside and out of any connection points or connecting arms or how it ties into the springs) with a bit more clarity to confirm? They probably have a manufacturers name, makers mark or part # for even further clarification in case you ever need to know.

 

And again (another new discovery for the memory ), the frame will be 6" x 2 1/2" flanges (I believe these are also called the top rails of the frame seen in photo below), and there should also be five cross members. This is all assuming of course that it's a original unaltered Clipper frame. 

 

 

Here is the article snippet with description. I'm only posting it again so you don't have to search everywhere for the article while trying to compare with the photo. Also makes it easier for the reader to follow along.

 

 

If you took any pictures of your frame while the body was off, it might be worth it to find that photo and count the crossmembers.

 

 

 

Edited June 25 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

Here is a overview showing the four cross members on a Packet. Not sure where the fifth would be on a Clipper, so this will be a good learning experience if you can confirm and post a photo of where the 5th one is, and will tell us IF you have a Clipper.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 25 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[30DodgePanel]

Yet another dash on a Packet. Note this is from a first edition Aug 1928 Instruction Manual for the 1/2 ton Packet. 

I'm only posting it to show there were indeed other variations of the dash board layout. BTW, there are ways of tracing down the approximate dates for those changes if you'd like to know. Commercial Car Journals and other period literature good tools for finding out what month those changes may have occurred. As you know, the changes in the early days were constant and random. I love the research so it's a lot of fun for me. I'm still in the process of hunting down when those changes may have occurred but we're talking about a 4 years window times a minimum or 12 monthly issues, sometimes weekly issues of those publications so you can imagine the time it takes to find those answers. I'm still working a fulltime job so I'll certainly continue searching as I get time. More to come...

 

 

As I mentioned in a previous PM, a few years ago I had the opportunity to purchase a Clipper Instruction Book. I passed on it at the time, but now I really wished I would have purchased it. I'd venture to say someone on the AACA forums purchased that book, so maybe start a thread asking for photos of the dash of a Clipper from that Instruction Book? Just a thought, but if you can find someone who owns that Clipper manual it may be more help to you than any of us can offer as we're simply trying our best to "fill in the blanks" the best we can.

 

 

 

Edited June 25 by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)

[Jack Bennett]

6 hours ago, 30DodgePanel said:

 

I doubt you'll find anything like a modern shock that we're used to seeing.

It's hard to tell, but I believe those are the lovejoy shock absorbers in the photo below. I've not studied the early lovejoys, but found several styles when doing a google search.

 

Maybe try to get us a few close-up photos (inside and out of any connection points or connecting arms or how it ties into the springs) with a bit more clarity to confirm? They probably have a manufacturers name, makers mark or part # for even further clarification in case you ever need to know.

 

And again (another new discovery for the memory ), the frame will be 6" x 2 1/2" flanges (I believe these are also called the top rails of the frame seen in photo below), and there should also be five cross members. This is all assuming of course that it's a original unaltered Clipper frame. 

 

 

Here is the article snippet with description. I'm only posting it again so you don't have to search everywhere for the article while trying to compare with the photo. Also makes it easier for the reader to follow along.

 

 

If you took any pictures of your frame while the body was off, it might be worth it to find that photo and count the crossmembers.

 

 

 

Wow!

The thing with these antique machines is that they just never stop giving up things to learn.

Of course I must refer back to the “oil rectifier” and “sleeve valve” construction of the engine in my Willys.

I am still trying to integrate the way my Dodge has no intake manifold and the combination starter/generator.

Now you have given me a few more things to feast my mind on with your “invar strut pistons”, “impulse neutralizer” and “”semi-automatic ignition”.

It is a certainty that it is impossible for a fan of these marvels of machinery to go to bed with a hungry mind.

Thanks again for the information and the thought in providing it.

Jack

[30DodgePanel]

2 hours ago, Jack Bennett said:

it is impossible for a fan of these marvels of machinery to go to bed with a hungry mind.

you sleep? 
 

I wish I could find all the answers so I could get some rest.
 

They say songwriters have a pen and notepad beside their bed just in case…. I find it works good in the research aspect of the hobby too. 

[Jack Bennett]

20 hours ago, 30DodgePanel said:

you sleep? 
 

I wish I could find all the answers so I could get some rest.
 

They say songwriters have a pen and notepad beside their bed just in case…. I find it works good in the research aspect of the hobby too. 

I wonder if keeping a iPad handy to take photos of things you want to study later counts?

[Jack Bennett]

Most of the restaurants, here in Washington state anyway, offering an all you can eat buffet format, are now closed.

I suppose this has to do with what everyone should have been born to understand, that given a excessive amount of anything, the average individual will abuse this over abundance, and eventually harm themselves from over indulgence.

What we begin as the hobby of “old car collection and restoration” has the propensity to fit into the category of things we initially begin doing to escape the tedium of paid employment, and through our inclination to gorge ourselves on the over abundance of anything, allow it to become another source of tedium sometimes worse than that we hoped to escape.

In less than a month I will become a octogenarian, and, while that may be a laudable feat in terms of avoiding a fatal episode, it has a price extracted in ways considered as “normal effects of aging”.

Regardless, mom nature may know little or nothing about antique cars, but she sure knows that it takes a bit more than a tad of wind or lack of daylight to stop a old die hard from tightening that last bolt or cleaning that last inch of windshield prior to calling it a day.

”Mite”, the name I have chosen for the 95 year old Fargo Express Panel Delivery I have adopted as a reanimation project is as addictive as Buffalo chicken wings, those tasty baked beans and the abundantly breaded pork chops, served on the lines of the most popular buffet restaurants (previously) in business.

Realizing that it is a hobby, and not a source of income, I often meter out what I hope to accomplish on the truck depending on a reasonable amount of time and resources I intend on expending during that single session.

That means that there must also be the expectation, and the amount of time it will require, to go back, disassemble, and redo a lot of the things I do more haphazardly to close a space from the weather or see what parts I need to fabricate to complete the assembly as it originally was.

I am now recovering the lower seat I bought for the truck, and have nearly completed building a seat back for the destroyed one I got with the truck.

That means that my goals of permanently closing the cab to the weather prior to installation of the newly reupholstered seats, new floor boards and a (now working) instrument panel, and am now reconstructing the recently disassembled truck cab and roof.

And, again, the rain began to fall in earnest.

Jack

 

 

[Jack Bennett]

Thanks to all for your kind responses.

A few things makes the hobby of ritual blood letting, contortionist and non-certified clinician in the diagnosis of sprains, dislocations, fractures and blunt force trauma injuries, aka……..”Antique car restoration”…….so rewarding is not only the opportunity to preserve a piece of history, it also affords a channel to share it with others. 
And, in my case, it makes me think, which can be a later in life challenge for some of us mellowed out fellows. 
It never ceases to amaze me that these old machines do so well at concealing the beauty of their design, the ingenuity of their construction and the true nature of their reason for existing until the process of restoring them has reached some level of completion.

Yesterday I began the process of closing the Fargo against the ravages of the weather in what seemed like a pretty cut and dried job of cutting and assembling a puzzle of wooden pieces.

However, as has been revealed in previous posts discussing the progress on the Fargo, regarding the wheels, shocks, instrument panel, and so forth, what is missing doesn’t become apparent until a vacant spot materializes in a component being reconstructed, and then the bulb flashes on saying, “That won’t work because a/that/those pieces have to be made to fill a now vacant spot”.

It is all too quickly becoming apparent that I was way off base in thinking the truck was an austere vehicle, made to fill a role left when Chrysler Corp. bought out Dodge Brothers, and relocated the manufacture of their light/medium duty trucks to the DeSoto plant in Canada.
Thinking this, I had envisioned the truck as a bare bones truck, designed for sale in a market geared totally toward export, and built more as a effort to, using trial and error indicators of what did, and didn’t work in their new line of trucks, than building a truck to appeal to a audience who sought a truck which was durable, dependable, economical, capable, and…..had eye appeal.

Now that the interior of the cab is coming together, and it is the roots of the roof structure, it is becoming Chrystal clear that these trucks were not shabbily built boxes of wood, thrown together with nails and some sheet metal.

As I progress through the reconstruction I am spending nearly as much time disassembling work I had thought was complete, to make both structural as well as decorative trim which had totally disappeared as aging and rot reduced the structure to muck, and washed it away.

At this point I have to advise the “purist’s” that the following content may cause extreme discomfort and maybe even a impulse to regurgitate your last meal. Accordingly, I must warn you to proceed at your own risk.

A continual question on the forum is “How much will it cost/How much is it worth” and I have to cite the $2.50, poorly made, and totally disgusting, snow comes we bought while touring Niagara Falls.

The choice of being placed in a situation which mandates spending half a thousand dollars for a antiquated engine part, or even a few dollars for a mostly missing manometer, for a soon to fail radiator, is 100% voluntary.

Accordingly, I look at my old cars as a hobby, rather than a investment, and whether or not the paint is NOS from a long forgotten stash of 1923 vintage black, or a totally correct wheel stud which runs a $100.00 with S&H is irrelevant, since I will buy neither.

Instead, to continue the agenda started above, one of the pleasures I get in doing the old car stuff is the challenge, and opportunity to return the vehicles as you would view them in the same light as you would expect to find a older car you used as a daily driver today.

This means that the dent goes untended for a while and a speck of rust on the inside of a bumper is really no cause for concern.

Likewise, the material I use in reconstruction of these machines is, in most part, reclaimed from cast off furniture and wood used in pallets, which is available, for free, by the truckloads, everywhere, and everyday of the week.

And, the couches have real leather, copious quantities of metal straps, screws, nuts, bolts and toggles not found in Lowe’s or Home Depot, or TSC, and the amount of nifty metal pieces found in a old recliner is mind boggling.

For instance, I was stymied by the method I was expected to use to attach a early 1900’s era claxon horn to a 1951 Dodge truck engine, installed in a 1929 Fargo Express panel truck, without making it obvious that I was insane or trying to compete with Jay Leno so far as being vehicularly exotic.

One of the metal pieces, which allow the raising of the foot rest on a cast off, decades old recliner chair provided a quick answer after drilling only a single bolt hole.

Photos will follow……..eventually.

Jack