1960 Lincoln continental power windows troubleshootings

[BryanFJ1]

Hi everyone! Just wanted to address this specific topic in it's individual thread.

All the windows were working perfectly fine, till one day my back passenger quarter window stopped to go down.

So yesterday i was trying to reach the motor to spray WD40 everywhere and shake window assembly to try making it going down - nada. BUT it always can go up.

So today i took the motor out and i am having hard time troubleshooting it.

So when green wire on negative (I actually thought that the black wire was ground wire), and the red wire is on positive the motor starts to spin clockwise (from the picture perspective). 

But when i connect yellow wire to the positive terminal - nothing is happening, also when the motor was back in the car - its was making short low sound hums, but now it's not even making any sounds. 

 

So if the yellow wire on positive and green on negative and nothing happening - motor is fried in a different direction or i am just doing something wrong? 

Edited September 18, 2023 by BryanFJ1 (see edit history)

[pfloro]

According to what I just read, the 1960-1963 Lincoln used a 4 wire motor (what you have).   I've attached a power window circuit diagram.

These motors didn't use permanent magnets for the field but rather "field windings".  It seems that only "1/2" of the field is powered at a time

(based on the desired direction).  The direction of the motor armature is reversed by supplying power to either one part of the field or the other. 

The field "halves" are wound so the magnetic field is reversed (N-S / S-N) without having to reverse the polarity of the power.

(Red & Yellow - study the window switch circuit). The armature is powered through the green wire & the brushes/commutator).  ...and yes, the black

wire is the ground (notice the "ring connector" on your motor's wiring)...

 

I'd have to study this diagram to help with testing but I hope the diagram gets you started...

 

Paul

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by pfloro (see edit history)

[BryanFJ1]

Back from the running tests. 

So turns out that the combination of green (negative), red (positive) - IS WHEN THE WINDOW GOING DOWN! 

So next thing i tried to put it back to the wires how it should be and try to make it go up and down with the button - NOPE.

It shoot the gear all the way "UP" but when i was pressing down, i could hear some clinking from somewhere.

Then i grabbed the motor with my hand and it was SUPER HOT! 

So then i noticed - that there is this rusty crusty weird relay (circuit breaker?) on the floor where black wire connects to, and maybe this is where all the troubles are? 

Like this this is making the motor to malfunction? 

 

(also i think you can see mouse skull on this picture at the low left corner lol) 

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by BryanFJ1 (see edit history)

[BryanFJ1]

39 minutes ago, pfloro said:

reversing the polarity

Not going to lie - i thought about it! Because i couldn't wrap my head around why there is 4 wires and not 3. 

I looked into your wiring diagram, as i understand it, all the wires that are going into the motor - are the wires that are coming from the rear right passenger switch and from the switch that is located next to the driver. 

 

So could that it be that this ?circuit breaker? is where polarity are changing and where it all going to south? 

Edited September 18, 2023 by BryanFJ1 (see edit history)

[pfloro]

44 minutes ago, BryanFJ1 said:

So turns out that the combination of green (negative), red (positive) - IS WHEN THE WINDOW GOING DOWN! 

As part of your testing (you can bypass the circuit breaker which is in the ground side of the wiring): 

 

1)  Black wire to Ground.

2) Green & Red to POSITIVE.  Motor should spin one way (DOWN direction).

****

3) Black wire to Ground.

4) Green & Yellow to POSITIVE.  Motor should spin the other way (Up direction).

    If this works, the motor is good.  If not, then the "UP" field winding is probably shorted.

 

29 minutes ago, BryanFJ1 said:

So could that it be that this ?circuit breaker? is where polarity are changing and where all going to south? 

No..., the crusty device is simply a circuit breaker (an "over current" protection device).   It simply opens and

then self resets if the circuit current exceeds 15 amps.  Notice that there is a circuit breaker for each window motor.

 

Paul

 

PS:  Please reread my first post as I updated it once I further studied the circuit diagram...

       It doesn't appear that the polarity of the voltage is being reversed in any way...

 

       At some point, Ford must have switched over to permanent magnet window (and seat) motors which DID

      require the polarity to be reversed.  In the GM world of the 1980s,  the motors were 2 wire...  The switch

      design allowed the polarity to be reversed...

 

 

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by pfloro (see edit history)

[BryanFJ1]

9 minutes ago, pfloro said:

1)  Black wire to Ground.

2) Green & Red to POSITIVE.  Motor should spin one way (DOWN direction).

****

3) Black wire to Ground.

4) Green & Yellow to POSITIVE.  Motor should spin the other way (Up direction).

    If this works, the motor is good.  If not, then the "UP" field winding is probably shorted.

Just went to make this quick test. Bad news.

 

Green & Red to POSITIVE.  Motor GOES UP!

Green & Yellow to POSITIVE. - It's just sparks pretty intense and nothing is happening. 😕

 

I don't think i would be able to fix it myself. So there you go, new motor is like 270 bucks plus delivery...

[BryanFJ1]

There is a chance to check out our local scrapyard for these motors.

And this Linken looks like still has them in the doors.

So there is a question - will this model motors will match my car and is there a difference between a door power window motor and quarter back window motor? 

[pfloro]

5 minutes ago, BryanFJ1 said:

will this model motors will match my car and is there a difference between a door power window motor and quarter back window motor? 

My gut would say that all 4 motors are the same.  Like other manufacturers, Ford was counting pennies...!

 

As you know, there is only one way to find out...!

 

Paul

[JACK M]

Twer it a Mopar there are rights and lefts.

[BryanFJ1]

ACTUALLY - since i am going to pull the motor out of the (supposedly) right side passenger door, i can pull the window out of it as well, since the front passenger window in my car is filled with bb gun holes. So kinda killing 2 birds with 1 stone. 

Again, hopefully the windows are the same size with my model... 

[BryanFJ1]

Hi everyone! Just wanted to share the latest update on the situation.

• Went to the junkyard - NONE of the power window motors could be found anywhere. Checked all Lincolns, all Thunderbirds, Capris - They are just all gone by 2023
• Checked the windows - door windows are smaller than in Continental. :c  
• Found the guy on Ebay who was willing to sell the motor for 140$ (Plus he also sent me washer bottle bracket that my car is missing). Everything is working and matching. Not bad.

So at this point i thought everything is should be good and easy. Boy was i wrong...

Putting everything back together was a NIGHTMARE. Everything is moving, windows slipping down, everything is heavy and on top of that you are sitting there like a Gollum. Back hurts, hands are hurting and i was hating an every moment of doing this. It took me 4 HOURS to put everything back together.

Probably THE WORST job that i have performed on this car. 

 

 

[JACK M]

Welcome to the hobby.

As in most things in life, there are good days and there are bad days.

[pfloro]

On 10/12/2023 at 1:29 PM, BryanFJ1 said:

Hi everyone! Just wanted to share the latest update on the situation.

 

The big question: After all that aggravation, does the rear passenger window now work...?   I certainly hope so...

 

As Jack M stated, it's part of the hobby...  We have all cussed and flipped the bird at our cars many, many times...!

 

Paul

 

PS:  I love the safety pins (?) holding up the rear of the headliner...!  Any port in a storm...

 

 

Edited October 13, 2023 by pfloro (see edit history)

[BryanFJ1]

16 hours ago, pfloro said:

does the rear passenger window now work...?   I certainly hope so...

 

Oh yeah, it does! The only thing is that sometimes it's getting stuck when the front lower part meets the rubber bushing, so you gotta pull it with your hand a bit just to help it to pass this angle. 

I'm pretty sure if it was the door - whole thing would be much more easier... 

[m-mman]

On 10/14/2023 at 8:17 AM, BryanFJ1 said:

I'm pretty sure if it was the door - whole thing would be much more easier... 

Ha! You wish  😁 1958-60 Lincolns are never easy to fix. 

Nope, when you get around to pulling the door panels, you will see that the door is almost a sealed solid piece of steel.  There is one (not really big enough) hole covered with a bolt in piece of metal that makes the door fully covered.  remove the cover and that is your access hole. 
 

FYI you will also see that the inside door stamping is for a 4 door. The additional metal welded to it to make it a 2 door length will be obvious.  
 

Also you should know that the outside door handles are different between 2 and 4 door.  The U shaped grab part is the same but the shaft on the lock/button is longer on the 2 door. 
 

This is all part of what happens when you engineer a unibody design. 

[BryanFJ1]

17 hours ago, m-mman said:

different between 2 and 4 door.

Ha! Interesting.

 

Also, a little bit off the topic, just wanted to share it here.

 

I have a neighbour across the street, he is always helps me to fix my mustang, so turned out that he is not just a car guy - he is actually making his living fixing AC, ventilations and stuff. So i asked him hey maybe can you help me fix HVAC in my Lincoln and he said - sure. So i gave him the book to read, told him that there is something wrong with the heater core -  and today he said that it's pretty easy for him and he will charge me only like a few hundreds to fix it.

 

Ngl I AM PRETTY EXCITED!