Guest DeSoto Frank Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 We have a question kicking around on the P-15 / D-24 site about 6-volt sealed beams: the original metal-backed units from the early '40's are spec'd as 45 watt high-beam / 35 watt low-beam, but the all-glass units (including the modern 6006) are 50 watt / 40 watt (which doesn't seem to bother our cars' electrical systems).When did the all-glass sealed-beam debut and when did the metal-back disappear (in the U.S. -I know they hung around a lot longer in Europe and Japan.) ?(Am concerned with the 7" PAR-56 headlight, not the smaller PAR 36 & 46 spot & fog lamps)Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Deering Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 The Guide Division of G.M. was producing 12V steel backs in 1954.They switched to all glass construction in '55 and quite possibly the latter part of '54. I've got a jillion questions about sealed beams too. For openers; when were the "aiming buttons" discontinued? I've got '56 vintage with buttons and '57 without. So I'm assuming that was the cut-off point. There were probably wide timing variations among the various manufacturers for all these changes. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DeSoto Frank Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 Tom,RE: aiming lugs... the pictures in my '41 De Soto shop manual show metal-back units, but they do not appear to have "aiming lugs" on the face of the lens.According to Carl Breer's (One of Chrysler's "Three Musketeers") memoir, Chrysler was responsible for pushing the creation of the sealed-beam and was planting the seed with General Electric's RD people in the light bulb plant at Nela Park, near Cleveland.The G.E. people might be able to provide some solid history there...The present-day 6006 headlights in my '41 De Soto have aiming lugs on them; I believe they're Wagner... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Deering Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 Frank, I must be getting dingey in my old age. I just re-read my post and saw that I reversed the sequence of the "aiming lugs". It should have read: ---- the '56 headlight has NO aiming lugs, while the lights made in '57 DO have aiming lugs. Your recognition of no aiming lugs in your pre-war printed material is consistent with the cut-off noted above. You also mentioned that you have Wagner brand bulbs. Can't say I ever noticed that brand until the late '70s or early '80s. Don't know when they came on the scene for sure. The manufacturers who were dominant players in the '40s and '50s were: General Electric, Guide (GM) Tung Sol, and Westinghouse. Another change that occurred at some point after the era we're discussing is the prismatic pattern on the lens changed from a coarse pattern to a finer pattern that is currently available. TomP.S. Could you post a link or the URL of that Mopar site? I'd like to see what the folks are saying on this subject. These are the models prior to the use of "bulls eye" headlights right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DeSoto Frank Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 Tom,The Dodge & Plymouth site is "www.P15-D24.com".The discussion on the other site got started with someone looking for "Corcoran Brown" sealed-beams (which are the "bull's eyes", I think, and were supposedly 1948-49 time frame.).Yes, Wagner is a relative new-comer to the bulb industry; my current sealed beams are pretty new aftermarket replacements... I just went into the local auto parts store and took what they had on the shelf. I'm not "showing" the car at this time and drive it frequently during the nice months, so I was more after two headlights that lit-up than historically correct units.But.... now that the subject is being thrown around, I might try to find some "bull's eyes" or metal-backs for period-look.I do remember finding Tung-Sol, Westinghouse, Guide, and G.E. sealed beams in various old cars I've owned over the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Deering Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 Thanks Frank, Neat site & great cars. (one persons opinion). It sure would be great to have an in-depth exchange of knowledge on the subject on this board. Guess nobody knows or cares? Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 11, 2003 Share Posted April 11, 2003 In the event someone wants to use a later sealed beam bulb with aiming lugs in an earlier application where aiming lugs would be incorrect, they can be removed. I did it on a number of bulbs while I was still in the glass business. Any willing and careful glass shop using a wet belt grinder and having 120, 220, 400 and cork belts can grind away the lugs and polish out the area after grinding. It takes four separate operations using the belts listed above. Believe me, it works.hvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Deering Posted April 11, 2003 Share Posted April 11, 2003 Thanks Howard, That is the type of information we need to share in the hobby. Maybe it's just me; it seems any information on glass products simply can't be found in restoration books or any other hobby related media. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bsb6 Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 Tom,RE: aiming lugs... the pictures in my '41 De Soto shop manual show metal-back units, but they do not appear to have "aiming lugs" on the face of the lens.According to Carl Breer's (One of Chrysler's "Three Musketeers") memoir, Chrysler was responsible for pushing the creation of the sealed-beam and was planting the seed with General Electric's RD people in the light bulb plant at Nela Park, near Cleveland.The G.E. people might be able to provide some solid history there...The present-day 6006 headlights in my '41 De Soto have aiming lugs on them; I believe they're Wagner...I know this goes waaaaay back, but I just stumbled across it. My grandfather, Fred Zeder is pictured with Carl Breer & Owen Skelton reviewing sealed beam headlights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryB Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 I worked in the TV picture tube industry for 30+ years. The early TV picture tubes also used metal cone construction where the front glass was attached to the metal cone. I think this was done to ensure the integrity of the assembly when it was placed under vacuum to draw all the oxygen out of the assembly. Just like the headlight bulbs, TV tubes eventually went to all glass construction.Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhigdog Posted November 21, 2013 Share Posted November 21, 2013 The Guide Division of G.M. was producing 12V steel backs in 1954.They switched to all glass construction in '55 and quite possibly the latter part of '54. I've got a jillion questions about sealed beams too. For openers; when were the "aiming buttons" discontinued? I've got '56 vintage with buttons and '57 without. So I'm assuming that was the cut-off point. There were probably wide timing variations among the various manufacturers for all these changes. TomI can't give a definitive answer on when the switch was made to all glass but I can say that metal back bulbs ( 12 volt bullseyes) were used as late as 1956 by Chrysler. BTW the bullseyes were not actually sealed beams. They were made with a separate bulb sealed inside the metal/glass unit. I've re-lamped 12V bullseye units by replacing burned out ones with halogen bulbs. The switch is almost undetectable..........Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now