This winter?s project - Under-body Rust!!

[BP]

I me be in over my head. Come to think of it ... When your working under your car its all over your head

I knew I had some amount of rust on the underside rear of my Reatta. This winter?s project was to wire brush and re-undercoat.

Well ? one thing led to another and the next thing I knew the rear end was removed and sitting on the garage floor. Wish me Luck! Any advise is welcome!

I have some pictures if I can just figure-out how to attach them!

[sahein]

Make sure that you use a rust converter product like "Phospho" (phosphoric acid)on the rusted steel parts to halt the cancer prior to coating.

[Roadster90]

You have got a fair amount of rust...Phospho is good stuff, however it appears you will need more than 1 coat - do at least 2 and maybe 3 light coats (3 daily applications-cures overnight)in order to get a total uniform black crust (seal). Will feel like a greasy film on the surface afterwards. I have been told by Phospho's technical service that is ok to coat right over top of the greasy film, but I lightly "wash" with enamel thinner first (could use mineral spirits - cheaper)and then just coat right on top of the black crust....

[padgett]

Problem with rust is that it just keeps growing. My wife took her Bonneville to Indiana for a month - January - a number of years ago and when replacing her engine I found a number of beginning areas to clean/repaint.

Further I have seen cars that came to Florida after a year or less in the North (like central Texas, cars do not rust here, part of the reason we deliberately chose a town fifty miles from the coast) and when taken apart you can tell.

Was surprised while I was in Dallas to find that they stockpile salt for the roads. Seems the city had piled it under freeway overpasses and had managed to rot the supports...

On a Reatta, I would look first around the catalytic converter cover and the muffler/tailpipes and second at the body mounts. If signs are seen there then the car has been somewhere else. Fronm the top I usually look at the rear window channels and the valve covers (if metal) first.

Not saying Florida is that great for cars, we have other problems (think the best cars come from the Pacific Northwest, did they ban salt early ?) such as disintegrating rubber but that is replacable. Further, if a car picks up salt somewhere else & comes here we have pleanty of moisture (ferrous metal+ electrolyte (water + salt) = oxydation (rust)). Lack of moisture is why vehicles can operate for many years in saltmines and disintegrate when exposed to the surface.

Suspect we are hitting the point where rust related failures are going to begin to be a major problem.

Does seem to help a lot to keep the cars garaged

This means that things like rusted brake and fuel lines are virtually unheard of unless some yo-yo drove the car in the surf at Daytona. Coastal cars usually show upper-body rust rather than underneath.

What all of this means is that "rust-free" seems to have a totally different meaning in Ohio-Michigan-Indiana-Wisconson than in non-costal Florida and Texas. Just as an example, here we expect to be able to remove an exhaust manifold without snapping any bolts, even on a 20 year old car with no maintenance.

Don't forget a magnet wrapped in tape when checking out a potential purchase.

[Guest EDBS0]

I have used similar products with great results.

[BP]

Thanks for the feedback. I?m having fun learning and restoring. Everyone here helps a lot.

I?m having trouble removing the top nut on the Strut.

First problem was recognizing the TORX fitting on the top of Strut shaft. It had a plastic plug (I assume to keep out debris)

Once the plastic plug was removed I didn?t have enough clearence between the top of the strut and the top of the wheel housing to fit any tool.

Now that the entire suspension is out I have plenty of clearence. But the fastners won?t budge. Not quite enough room on top of strut shaft to ?double nut it?. I?m considering throwing the whole thing in the truck and giving Midas a crack at it. (I hate to give up though, I'd like to do it all myself)

Any thoughts?? Also can anyone confirm the TORX size on the Strut Shaft? I'm pretty sure its #50

Thanks! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[charlie1]

Get yourself a strap wrench and place it around the top of the shock!

worked for me

good luck

Charlie

[Guest EDBS0]

BP;

I used a red plumbers pipe wrench on the shaft and it came apart really easily. You can't use the strut again but I suspect that you are taking them off to replace them.

[charlie1]

As info the Strap wrench did not damage the shock in any way in my case. Let us know how you make out !

Would use some anti seize on lots of the bolts for your peoject.

be sure and use a torque wrench for reassembly of this project

good luck

Charlie

[sahein]

Use several coats of Oshpo over several days as stated above but; Do not paint over the Ospho!!!!The adhesion will be very poor and may cause extreme paint defects. Use solvent to wash and then sand the surface again before painting. The Ospho does it's job by neutralizing the chlorine by filling in the valance rings of the chlorine molecule. When it is no longer a free radical it is no longer a catalist. Once it has neutralized the chlorine, it is no longer needed and may harm the applied finish if permitted to remain.

[Guest Greg Ross]

I found similar grief on the rear suspension of Betsy Blue after X-Mas. I was necessary to lower the rear susp. to install the new rear exhaust piping and what we found was it was only necessary to unbolt one Isolation Mount!

Solution is I've picked up a complete rear suspension assembly in Louisiana. Passed on buying it last Fall because I wasn't going to have time to do the swap and I got lucky, it was still there and for a very reasonable price. An acquaintance is picking it up for me this week, will do the disassembly and ship me just the Core.

Where recoating is concerned I think it's only half the solution, typically when removing rust/ recoating it's not possible to access all surfaces. The other part of the process has to be application of inhibiters, known as "Rust Proofing" in the North. It wicks into recesses that simply can't be coated any other way.

Betsy Blue has been maintained this way and for a Northern car is in exceptionally good shape. These products act as penetrants as well so disassembly is usually very simple.

From what I'm able to see it's rusted away right around the isolation Mount/ Drivers' side.

[BP]

I got the strut cap nut off today. Thanks!

I ended up wrapping the top of the strut shaft just below the strut Mount insulators with several layers of duct tape. Then I clamped on a pair of vice grips to hold tight the strut shaft. I used a 24mm Impact gun to remove the upper strut-mounting nut.

The vise grips left one tiny scratch on the strut shaft very near the top. I don?t expect it will impair the struts performance. I couldn't get the strap wrench to grip tight enough and I couldn't hold the TORX wrench and turn the Cap nut hard enough to break it loose.

Thank you all for your feedback. I really welcome your advice.

[BP]

I finally finished my ?Winter Project? on June 3rd.. (Just about 5 months from when I started.) I don?t have nearly the experience most of you have on here, but I thought I might mention some trouble spots I bumped into along the way maybe it will help somebody out later on down the road.

The Rear Suspension Support beam removal went pretty smooth. I missed a couple brake line bracket screws, which were mounted to the beam, when I lowered it.

Removing the control arms from the support beam went pretty smoothly. Removal of the outer control arm bolt on the right side was impossible. I finally had to have it cut out by my friend at the local body shop. (I broke an impact socket trying to remove it and he broke a socket also before his cheater sheared off the bolt head. The left side bolt was difficult but came out much easier than the right. For the left side I placed the knuckle in the vise and used a punch and a 2-pound hammer to drive the bolt out.

I had Rear Suspension Support sand blasted and powder coated and began to reassemble. Reinstalling the beam was pretty easy (four bolts)

I made the mistake of rebuilding the right side brake caliper. Instead I should have just purchased a rebuilt caliper. It was only about $8.00 more i think than the caliper rebuild kit. And was definitely worth the extra couple bucks to save the aggravation.

I had a hard time finding a source for insulators for the rear spring reinstallation. One set of insulators was no longer available through GM Parts Direct. (Although when I checked in January all parts were available ? see what procrastination gets you!) My local dealer pulled a rabbit out of his hat and came up with a pair for me.

I had my car on four jack stands during the entire project. This caused me to deviate a few times from the guidance in the Factory Service Manual during reassembly. Compressing the rear spring while I reinstalled the spring insulators was a bit of a chore. The FSM tells you to lower the car to compress the spring then install the insulators, I carefully loaded the spring with two jacks under each control arm. Not hard ? just different.

Last ?speed-bump? during reassembly was the darn right side brake line again. One of the brake line bracket screws, is located right below the gas tank fill line, with the beam up and bolted in place I couldn?t get a wrench on the bracket screw install it. I had to lower the whole beam one more time to install that screw.

A couple things I did which were immensely helpful; I took plenty of pictures during disassembly and I refused to disassemble the left side control arm and wheel until the right side was complete and reassembled this allowed me a model to look at while reassembling the right side. It also allowed me to take advantage of ?lessons learned? during the right side overhaul.

When I completed the assembly I flushed and bled the brakes, and had the dealer perform an alignment and check my work.

All in all, I?m pleased with this winter?s restoration project. I learned a lot! The cost was about $1,000 to which included, coating the support beam, new bushings on both control arms (8 total), new bushings & new insulators for the support beam and new insulators for the rear spring, rebuilt brake calipers, and new emergency brake cables and one new ABS wheel sensor.

Sorry about the lengthy reply. If this was inappropriate to post here somebody just tell me and delete this post.

Next winter, maybe I?ll work the front end. See you in Flint!

[BP]

Attached is the "After" picture

[Guest Greg Ross]

Good Posting! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I bought a rear suspension clip here in Louisiana and and am about to tackle what you've done minus the powder coating. The center beam is in good enough shape I'll just do localized paint touch-ups. This one came off a '90, everything complete for $125. I have caliper rebuild Kits as well, May take your advise on that one!

Question, what methods did you use to knock the old bushings out of the control arms, and to press the new ones in? I've only removed one so far and the flanges seemed pretty prone to bending.

I don't understand the bit about compressing the spring, sounds like you had to assemble actually on the car. So far I've unbolted the bottoms of the struts and the control arms can then be taken off. Actually, have loosened every bolt with no difficulty, the bonus of being from a Southern Car I guess. (long as they're not driven on Datona beach!)That should free the Spring. I'm going to reuse my '88 Spring, I like the ride height the way it is, don't want it jacked up!

What happened with your Camber angle, did it square up? Had a debate with someone on the Forum a couple of months ago, perhaps it was you. My asumption is with fresh bushings the wheel camber condition should improve.

And the last question, what condition did you find the isolators to be in, one of mine is quite rotten. Actually the main reason I started on wanting to do this overhaul. The rest of the structure for being from the "Salt Belt" is not too bad but for $125. I couldn't go wrong.

The last thought I have for you is now that you're back on all 4ours, hunt up some spray (penetrating type) rust inhibitor. There's a COmpany in Canada, "Krown Rust Control" don't know if their franchises are in the Northeast or not. Anyway, I'd highly recommend spraying the whole structure, it will seep into crevices the sandblasting and paint didn't get to and protect them. Krown actually offers Spray cans of their product, I suppose for Body Shops to be able to do touch-ups etc. or us handy types! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

And definitely post this type of info, you spent months of effort, it deserves to be recorded for posterity.

[BP]

Thanks! I?m flattered by your response. I read the forum almost everyday, but I have little experience in the hobby, so I have little to contribute to the forum. I am looking forward to meeting some of you in Flint and putting some faces to the names here. You all have helped me a great deal. But I ramble ...

In response to your questions Ross

Question#1 What methods did you use to knock the old bushings out of the control arms, and to press the new ones in?

I was going to mention about the bushings but felt the post was getting way too long. For removal ? I used tons of penetrating fluid and tried a couple different methods.

The bushings in the suspension support were the most fragile. The guy doing the powder coating said he would ?take care of these.? What he meant was he?d melt the rubber out of them as part of the baking process for the powder coating. Once the rubber was gone I just chiseled a crease in the center and they pretty much, fell out.

For the control arms I made a ?rig? out of threaded rod (7/16th?s) and a 3? PVC Pipe Cap and some fender washers & nuts. The pipe cap provided the needed depth to pull the bushing ?into? during removal and installation. I wrapped duct tape and a hose clamp around the cap (in case it shattered) and slowly tightened up on the threaded rod nuts to press the bushings out and in.

To prevent the metal on the control arms from bending and distorting, I cut (approximately) a 1 inch wide piece of 1.5? black plastic pipe, then slit it axially and hose clamped it in place around the bushing in the control arm gap. This maintained the control arm, bushing gap and provided 360-degree support. Some mechanic friends suggested just cramming a spare socket that fit in the gap to maintain the required gap. Working alone, I didn?t have enough hands to hold everything in place. The black plastic was easy to bend and manipulate into place both before and after the bushings were installed.

When the bushing didn?t push out, and I sensed the pipe cap might shatter I removed the rig and creased the bushings axially with a small chisel then I worked a center punch as much around the circumference of each edge of the bushing as I could to "free up" the bushing from the arm. Then more penetrating fluid. Then I put the rig back on and finished the removal.

I was surprised the plastics worked as well as it did, but I was easier (for me) than fabricating the rig with steel spacers and steel pipe cap. All the bushing installations went smoothly. I sand blasted the control arms and painted them prior to installation so the conditions were optimal for reassembly.

Question#2 - I don't understand the bit about compressing the spring, sounds like you had to assemble actually on the car?

I did have to assemble it on the car. The spring is held in place by (actually ?pinched? between) a pair of rubber backed insulators. The support beam is flat these insulators are flat ? but the natural position of the spring is curved. The spring insulator bolting is only about an inch long. So, to position and seat the spring properly it must be set in place and loaded (so it too is flat) during assembly. Otherwise the bolting doesn?t engage and I imagine the torque requirements would change too. By the way, the upper insulator was the one that was no longer available from GM (part-# 17981840) Lower insulator was part # 17982002. (Note: many cautions in FSM on this regarding "centering the spring"!!)

Question#3 -What happened with your Camber angle, did it square up?

I can?t speak to this issue. I had no alignment problems going into this project and always planned to have the alignment check at its <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> conclusion. I have noticed no real change in ride or handling. All my bushings were in ?OK? shape, I changed the basically because I was there.

Question#4 - What condition did you find the isolators to be in, one of mine is quite rotten.

The insulators on the support beam were in rough shape. One was almost completely rotten the other was marginal. I was not surprised given the condition of the beam. The lower beam insulators were in better shape. Beam Insulators are 2 piece GM part-# 03538757 is the upper (larger piece) Lower Beam Insulator was part # 25678602

Hope the info helps out. Good luck! Be safe working under there. I have a list of all the rear suspension part numbers if you need them.

Again, I?m sorry for the verbose reply.

[Guest Greg Ross]

I hadn't thought of Plastic pipe for the spacers-perfect. Actually have all the parts now, bought them all last Winter when I ordered the rear susp. clip from the Salvage yard here in Houma, La. At that point in time I wasn't planning on coming back here, things change, here I am gainfully employed and happily reunited with all my parts.

Just came back from the shop from replacing the fuel pump in the new (to Me) Gas Tank, it came from the '90 the suspension came from. The price was relatively right and it looks like new inside and out. I have an advantage with this suspension (and Tank) project, I'll have access to a car hoist/ rack to make this a good deal less painless.

And, for sure, I'm looking forward to meeting more of the folks from this discussion board as well in Flint. I made the trip to Buffalo two years ago and can say without reservation you'll definitely enjoy yourself, really a very harmless bunch! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />